Questions regarding '12SL Leaf coming from '13S Leaf

[jjeff]

While I'm not exactly new to the Leaf I'm new to the older '12SL model and I have several questions for any of you that may know the older models. I've looked through old posts but haven't found the answers to these particular questions:

1. Any way to add SOC% to the dash display? I assume not but I thought I'd ask if anyone has figured out a hack or patch. I'm using LeafSpy with a cell phone propped behind the steering wheel but it's not as convenient as a built in display and has issues of it's own(see question #7).

2. Any way to get rid of or reduce the frequency of the Nav nag screen? I get in and out of my vehicle many times/day and while it's a small thing, it's kind of a pain to always have to confirm the Nav screen popup.

3. This is a big one and really bugs me, any way to keep the car in ECO all the time? unlike my '13S that once put into ECO it stays(unless I double shift) my '12SL goes out of ECO EVERY time the car is turned off, which again since I get in and out of my vehicle multiple times/day gets to be a PIA.

4. Since I've been using my Bluetooth adapter and LeafSpy basically every time I drive the car, what is the general consensus on just leaving it plugged in all the time? I believe the BT adapter(Panlong brand from Amazon) says it only draws something like 15ma so it's probably not going to run the battery down but I do worry a bit about it suffering a premature death from being powered on 24x7.

5. I've noticed the '12SL has much weaker regen than my '13S. Most of the time I only have one or two bubbles available and this is when it's below 80% SOC, sometimes I see 3 or 4 when the SOC% is below 30% but overall IMO the regen is very poor compared to the '13S, is this normal? Any way to increase it? I hardly use the breaks on my '13S but am forced to on my '12SL due to the minimal regen.

6. When I first got my '12SL it would only charge to a maximum of ~91%, even plugging it in over night on a L2 EVSE, the car would just stop charging after getting to ~91%. I did a couple deep discharges and recharges and have since got the maximum SOC to ~95% but why does it not go to 100%? I can understand the battery is old and has a SOH in the upper 70's(currently 77%) but will that also effect the maximum SOC%?

7. Any way to not have the Amazon Appstore on my phone and still have LeafSpy work? I didn't like the idea of having the Amazon Appstore on my phone, in case it got lost or stolen, so after I downloaded LeafSpy I deleted the icon, now whenever I bring up LeafSpy my screen has a large warning in the middle telling me I no longer have Amazon Appstore on my device and to please install it and sign with my password to use this app :x I can see LeafSpy behind the warning and it seems active and SOC% and such works but cannot remove the popup without shutting down the app, very irritating.

Thanks.

 

[RonDawg]

1. Some folks have been using a Gid meter (not sure if that is the correct name). I recall someone was selling theirs recently. Here's an example of one: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=8251

2. No. You have to press Yes or No each time you start the car. However I believe if you press one of the audio system buttons it's similar to pressing No. I can't verify as I no longer have my Leaf.

3. No, you cannot keep it in Eco permanently. You'll have to remember to double-shift into D each time.

4. Can't answer as I would always unplug mine.

5. That could be due to battery degradation, but compared to a "B" mode on a 2013+ car, regen is weak.

6. I'll leave for someone else to answer.

 

[jjeff]

Thanks Ron, kind of what I thought on most of my questions but nice to know I wasn't missing something
I had never heard of LeafScan, sounds like it may have basically died in '13? At least thats the last update in the post you linked. Looks like a nice product but I suppose with the new Leaf's it wasn't as important as on the older ones and with LeafSpy and the fact that basically everyone has a cell phone, it's life was probably short lived
In regards to your #5, regen is even weak compared to my '13S without the B mode option. My guess is ECO on my '13S is basically like ECO and B mode both being on with the upper trim models. I mean other than going down a mountain road I don't think I'd ever want more engine breaking than ECO gives me on my '13S, just about perfect for normal driving IMO.

If anyone has anything else to add, please do, always willing to learn more about my older Leaf.

 

[lpickup]

While I'm not exactly new to the Leaf I'm new to the older '12SL model and I have several questions for any of you that may know the older models. I've looked through old posts but haven't found the answers to these particular questions:

Ron already did a good job with the first several...


1. Any way to add SOC% to the dash display? I assume not but I thought I'd ask if anyone has figured out a hack or patch. I'm using LeafSpy with a cell phone propped behind the steering wheel but it's not as convenient as a built in display and has issues of it's own(see question #7).

2. Any way to get rid of or reduce the frequency of the Nav nag screen? I get in and out of my vehicle many times/day and while it's a small thing, it's kind of a pain to always have to confirm the Nav screen popup.

3. This is a big one and really bugs me, any way to keep the car in ECO all the time? unlike my '13S that once put into ECO it stays(unless I double shift) my '12SL goes out of ECO EVERY time the car is turned off, which again since I get in and out of my vehicle multiple times/day gets to be a PIA.

I would recommend you reconsider doing this...If you've driven an EV for more than 6-12 months, you already know how to drive efficiently. You don't need the car's ECO mode to help you. Besides, the notion that gently accelerating is ECO is an ICE paradigm. Because an electric motor has full torque at 0rpm, you don't have the same efficiency penalty that you do with a gas vehicle (there is a slight penalty, but nowhere near what you get in a gas vehicle). And the extra regen that ECO buys you is generally a BAD thing (you never get as much back as you put in). Ideally you want to coast as much as possible, not regenerate. And if you do need to come to a stop, your brakes will engage regenerating anyway. So in my opinion, ECO mode can actually be WORSE for experienced EV drivers (and studies have backed that up). I did the "double click" for a year and eventually just started driving efficiently in D and my mi/kWh numbers did not change.

Having said that, I do flick over to ECO when in heavy traffic, but only as a convenience in doing one foot driving...not for any efficiency reasons.

5. I've noticed the '12SL has much weaker regen than my '13S. Most of the time I only have one or two bubbles available and this is when it's below 80% SOC, sometimes I see 3 or 4 when the SOC% is below 30% but overall IMO the regen is very poor compared to the '13S, is this normal? Any way to increase it? I hardly use the breaks on my '13S but am forced to on my '12SL due to the minimal regen.

Yes, this is "normal". On mine, in cold weather, sometimes I don't even get my second bubble until I'm down to 3 or even 2 bars. It's very frustrating. This is definitely something they improved in the 13. I expect it to get even worse as the battery degrades even further, because it was not like this when the car was new.

6. When I first got my '12SL it would only charge to a maximum of ~91%, even plugging it in over night on a L2 EVSE, the car would just stop charging after getting to ~91%. I did a couple deep discharges and recharges and have since got the maximum SOC to ~95% but why does it not go to 100%? I can understand the battery is old and has a SOH in the upper 70's(currently 77%) but will that also effect the maximum SOC%?

I don't know the details, but I think this is just a "display" issue. Mine always says something like 94.7% after a 100% charge. I think it's due to the fact that the car doesn't report SOC% directly, but instead LeafSpy must calculate it from GIDs, and this is an imprecise science. At least that's how it used to be. I don't know what the current state of the art is. At any rate, it's really just a number. It doesn't impact how much energy is in your battery.

7. Any way to not have the Amazon Appstore on my phone and still have LeafSpy work? I didn't like the idea of having the Amazon Appstore on my phone, in case it got lost or stolen, so after I downloaded LeafSpy I deleted the icon, now whenever I bring up LeafSpy my screen has a large warning in the middle telling me I no longer have Amazon Appstore on my device and to please install it and sign with my password to use this app :x I can see LeafSpy behind the warning and it seems active and SOC% and such works but cannot remove the popup without shutting down the app, very irritating..

I have the Amazon app on my phone, so I haven't tried running LeafSpy without it. It sounds surprising that it would require that app to be present to use LeafSpy. Did you somehow get LeafSpy through the Amazon app maybe? I can understand your hesitancy, however, isn't it possible to require password input before purchasing anything?

 

[jjeff]

5. I've noticed the '12SL has much weaker regen than my '13S. Most of the time I only have one or two bubbles available and this is when it's below 80% SOC, sometimes I see 3 or 4 when the SOC% is below 30% but overall IMO the regen is very poor compared to the '13S, is this normal? Any way to increase it? I hardly use the breaks on my '13S but am forced to on my '12SL due to the minimal regen.

Yes, this is "normal". On mine, in cold weather, sometimes I don't even get my second bubble until I'm down to 3 or even 2 bars. It's very frustrating. This is definitely something they improved in the 13. I expect it to get even worse as the battery degrades even further, because it was not like this when the car was new.

I was driving the '13 today and started at 100%(something I don't generally do but had planned on a long trip, anyway I had more regen(bubbles) when I was down to 95% than I do on my '12 when it's 30% The main reason I like regen is for stop and go traffic or suburban traffic where I'm forced to stop somewhat quickly when a light changes. With maximum regen I hardly have to engage the friction breaks, something I like. The main reason I like the ECO mode isn't so much for the remapping of the accelerator pedal but the engine braking/regen feature. If I had a '13+ that had both ECO and B I may just use B and forgo ECO although I also don't mind that the accelerator pedal is less "touchy" in ECO and it's easier for me to not jackrabbit start.

6. When I first got my '12SL it would only charge to a maximum of ~91%, even plugging it in over night on a L2 EVSE, the car would just stop charging after getting to ~91%. I did a couple deep discharges and recharges and have since got the maximum SOC to ~95% but why does it not go to 100%? I can understand the battery is old and has a SOH in the upper 70's(currently 77%) but will that also effect the maximum SOC%?

I don't know the details, but I think this is just a "display" issue. Mine always says something like 94.7% after a 100% charge. I think it's due to the fact that the car doesn't report SOC% directly, but instead LeafSpy must calculate it from GIDs, and this is an imprecise science. At least that's how it used to be. I don't know what the current state of the art is. At any rate, it's really just a number. It doesn't impact how much energy is in your battery.

Good to know it's not a true capacity issue and rather a "display" issue, I can live with that.

7. Any way to not have the Amazon Appstore on my phone and still have LeafSpy work? I didn't like the idea of having the Amazon Appstore on my phone, in case it got lost or stolen, so after I downloaded LeafSpy I deleted the icon, now whenever I bring up LeafSpy my screen has a large warning in the middle telling me I no longer have Amazon Appstore on my device and to please install it and sign with my password to use this app :x I can see LeafSpy behind the warning and it seems active and SOC% and such works but cannot remove the popup without shutting down the app, very irritating..

I have the Amazon app on my phone, so I haven't tried running LeafSpy without it. It sounds surprising that it would require that app to be present to use LeafSpy. Did you somehow get LeafSpy through the Amazon app maybe? I can understand your hesitancy, however, isn't it possible to require password input before purchasing anything?

Yes I downloaded LeafSpy on Amazon, I didn't think there was another way :? First I had to download the Amazon app and then the LeafSpy app, how are most people getting LeafSpy? I suppose I could check into somehow requiring a PW for Amazon but I think from the warning I got, something to the effect that I needed to Login to Amazon use LeafSpy it just might not like not being constantly logged onto Amazon, something I'd rather not do unless absolutely forced to.
Thanks for your help in answering a couple more of my questions. If you use a BT adapter do you leave it plugged in all the time or unplug it after each use?

 

[Evoforce]

4. I leave my adapters plugged in on both leafs but they have on/off switch.

6. Both of My11s only charge up to 87-91%

Seems like everyone else handled the rest... I got my Leafspy through google playstore.

 

[lpickup]

The main reason I like regen is for stop and go traffic or suburban traffic where I'm forced to stop somewhat quickly when a light changes. With maximum regen I hardly have to engage the friction breaks, something I like. The main reason I like the ECO mode isn't so much for the remapping of the accelerator pedal but the engine braking/regen feature. If I had a '13+ that had both ECO and B I may just use B and forgo ECO although I also don't mind that the accelerator pedal is less "touchy" in ECO and it's easier for me to not jackrabbit start.

Yes, the B mode on the 13 is wonderful. But even at its best, ECO regen on the 12 will not be as good as that. I use ECO like you are talking about, but I don't engage it until I get into those stop & go situations. Most of the time I just use D.

As for your questions about Amazon and the BT adapter, I suspect you may be using this on an iPhone, because I have no idea what you're talking about. If you are talking about the OBDII dongle itself, yes, I leave that plugged in. But I'm thinking you may be talking about some kind of iPhone-specific thing. As for getting the app, it's available in the Google Play Store. I'm guessing it's not available in the Apple Store if you had to get it from Amazon.

 

[jjeff]

As for your questions about Amazon and the BT adapter, I suspect you may be using this on an iPhone, because I have no idea what you're talking about. If you are talking about the OBDII dongle itself, yes, I leave that plugged in. But I'm thinking you may be talking about some kind of iPhone-specific thing. As for getting the app, it's available in the Google Play Store. I'm guessing it's not available in the Apple Store if you had to get it from Amazon.

No I have a BT adapter(purchased on Amazon) and also downloaded the LeafSpy App to my Samsung S3 using Amazon. To download the LeafSpy app I was required to first send a link to my phone that would download a Amazon icon on my phone, from there I ordered the LeafSpy app using that Amazon icon. The first Amazon app seems to be basically like I see Amazon on my computer, I could order other things from Amazon if I wanted using my phone. After downloading the LeafSpy app and getting it working I figured I'd just delete the Amazon app from my phone as I probably wouldn't be ordering anything else from Amazon from my phone, and for security reasons didn't really want it on my phone. Well LeafSpy worked fine for about a week and then all the sudden I started getting this popup whenever I launched LeafSpy telling me I needed to logon to Amazon in order to use LeafSpy :x why the heck I'd have to be logged onto Amazon to use LeafSpy is a mystery to me other than maybe Amazon wants to make sure I'm logged on my phone, hoping I purchase more things using my phone :? In heindsite I wish I had known about using Google Play Store, if your saying there is no such logon requirement.

 

[lpickup]

I would just completely delete your LeafSpy (and Amazon if you want) app and start over from Google Play Store. AFAIK there is now requirement to have Amazon installed to run the base LeafSpy app.

As for the "BT Adapter" (it's not really a Bluetooth adapter, it's a Bluetooth compatible OBDII interface), first of all, 15mA is absolutely minuscule in the grand scheme of things. It will do nothing to your battery. Even so, the unit is powered from the CAN bus on the OBDII port anyway, which I don't believe is powered unless the car is on or charging. So there is ZERO worry about leaving it plugged in all the time.

 

[LeftieBiker]

As for the "BT Adapter" (it's not really a Bluetooth adapter, it's a Bluetooth compatible OBDII interface), first of all, 15mA is absolutely minuscule in the grand scheme of things. It will do nothing to your battery. Even so, the unit is powered from the CAN bus on the OBDII port anyway, which I don't believe is powered unless the car is on or charging. So there is ZERO worry about leaving it plugged in all the time.

You'd think this would be the case, and it may be with this particular unit, but there have been quite a few cases of people leaving the car for a week or more with an OBII BT reader plugged in (and the car off) only to return to a dead accessory battery.

 

[jjeff]

I would just completely delete your LeafSpy (and Amazon if you want) app and start over from Google Play Store. AFAIK there is now requirement to have Amazon installed to run the base LeafSpy app.

I think I'll do that then, I must have read to download it at Amazon somewhere so thats what I did.

As for the "BT Adapter" (it's not really a Bluetooth adapter, it's a Bluetooth compatible OBDII interface), first of all, 15mA is absolutely minuscule in the grand scheme of things. It will do nothing to your battery. Even so, the unit is powered from the CAN bus on the OBDII port anyway, which I don't believe is powered unless the car is on or charging. So there is ZERO worry about leaving it plugged in all the time.

Actually mine stays powered on all the time, I can see a red?? LED glowing from it even when the car is off. Also even after I turn the car off I can see LeafSpy updating on my phone. I believe I read somewhere that people were installing a switch?? or somehow rewiring the adapter so it would turn off when the car was turned off. I kind of looked at my adapter but it's very small and seems to be glued together and I'd prefer not to try and crack it open, thinking it might break.

 

[RonDawg]

I believe I read somewhere that people were installing a switch?? or somehow rewiring the adapter so it would turn off when the car was turned off. I kind of looked at my adapter but it's very small and seems to be glued together and I'd prefer not to try and crack it open, thinking it might break.

What I did was install an OBDII extension cable. It sticks out from the dash far less than an OBDII adapter would, and I don't have to poke my head under there to plug in an adapter. I could plug and unplug the OBDII adapter while sitting in the driver's seat.

There are different kinds of extension cables (cord straight in vs. at 90 degrees, the orientation of the plug, etc.). This is the one I used:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PAHHWM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

 

[jjeff]

I believe I read somewhere that people were installing a switch?? or somehow rewiring the adapter so it would turn off when the car was turned off. I kind of looked at my adapter but it's very small and seems to be glued together and I'd prefer not to try and crack it open, thinking it might break.

What I did was install an OBDII extension cable. It sticks out from the dash far less than an OBDII adapter would, and I don't have to poke my head under there to plug in an adapter. I could plug and unplug the OBDII adapter while sitting in the driver's seat.

There are different kinds of extension cables (cord straight in vs. at 90 degrees, the orientation of the plug, etc.). This is the one I used:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007PAHHWM?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

I'll have to keep that in mind, next time I place a Amazon order. Truthfully my OBDII adapter is only about the size of the head on that extension cord but if I got into the habit of unplugging it all the time I might worry about eventually wearing out the socket in the car(I believe all plugs have a rating before they start to wear out) but I wouldn't worry so much about that extension cord, if it wore out I could just purchase another, not like wearing out the car socket.
Again this is the OBDII adapter I have:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PJPHEBO?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

 

[lpickup]

Actually mine stays powered on all the time, I can see a red?? LED glowing from it even when the car is off. Also even after I turn the car off I can see LeafSpy updating on my phone.

I believe the device does remain active for some period after the car is turned off, and when charging. Have you checked your device after the car has been off for an extended period of time?

You'd think this would be the case, and it may be with this particular unit, but there have been quite a few cases of people leaving the car for a week or more with an OBII BT reader plugged in (and the car off) only to return to a dead accessory battery.

I am pretty skeptical of this. How do we know that it was the OBDII reader that is the culprit, and not just a marginal battery? It's not uncommon for a marginal battery to die when left alone for a week or more, regardless of whether an OBDII dongle is plugged in (the vehicle's electronics themselves draw a non-negligible amount of current). An AA battery would be able to supply 15mA for almost a week, so if your 12V accessory battery is being drained with a constant 15mA draw, it was pretty much toast anyway (even if the LEAF's factory battery is less than half that of a standard car battery, it should still be able to supply 15mA for 1000 hours--over 2 months!). The other possibility is that the device itself is drawing more than it says, but a healthy battery should still not suffer from even 6X that 15mA spec, even for several days at a time.

Regardless, if Jeff or others are using their cars normally and not letting them sit for extended periods of time, I still think there is no danger in leaving the OBDII device plugged in.

 

[jjeff]

Actually mine stays powered on all the time, I can see a red?? LED glowing from it even when the car is off. Also even after I turn the car off I can see LeafSpy updating on my phone.

I believe the device does remain active for some period after the car is turned off, and when charging. Have you checked your device after the car has been off for an extended period of time?

Yes I've checked it the next morning and it still has a red LED glowing. Note I'm not sure I'm able to pair my phone though, it generally requires me turning the car back on to establish a connection, maybe that part goes into sleep mode?

You'd think this would be the case, and it may be with this particular unit, but there have been quite a few cases of people leaving the car for a week or more with an OBII BT reader plugged in (and the car off) only to return to a dead accessory battery.

I am pretty skeptical of this. How do we know that it was the OBDII reader that is the culprit, and not just a marginal battery? It's not uncommon for a marginal battery to die when left alone for a week or more, regardless of whether an OBDII dongle is plugged in (the vehicle's electronics themselves draw a non-negligible amount of current). An AA battery would be able to supply 15mA for almost a week, so if your 12V accessory battery is being drained with a constant 15mA draw, it was pretty much toast anyway (even if the LEAF's factory battery is less than half that of a standard car battery, it should still be able to supply 15mA for 1000 hours--over 2 months!). The other possibility is that the device itself is drawing more than it says, but a healthy battery should still not suffer from even 6X that 15mA spec, even for several days at a time.

Regardless, if Jeff or others are using their cars normally and not letting them sit for extended periods of time, I still think there is no danger in leaving the OBDII device plugged in.

Agree with both points, my main reason for unplugging the OBDII adapter would be more for extending it's life than battery drain which as you said on a vehicle used almost every day shouldn't be a issue.

 

[Evoforce]

Just get a mini OBD2 that has a shutoff button. Let it wash you anxiety away... No plugging/unplugging. No dangling in your way. No banging your legs on it because it is a mini. No having to crank your head around. Etc... Amazon vendor Sannysis

 

[jjeff]

Just get a mini OBD2 that has a shutoff button. Let it wash you anxiety away... No plugging/unplugging. No dangling in your way. No banging your legs on it because it is a mini. No having to crank your head around. Etc... Amazon vendor Sannysis

Thanks, just put in my cart, and it's even cheaper than the other OBDII adapter I purchase off Amazon.

 

[jjeff]

I would just completely delete your LeafSpy (and Amazon if you want) app and start over from Google Play Store. AFAIK there is now requirement to have Amazon installed to run the base LeafSpy app.

As for the "BT Adapter" (it's not really a Bluetooth adapter, it's a Bluetooth compatible OBDII interface), first of all, 15mA is absolutely minuscule in the grand scheme of things. It will do nothing to your battery. Even so, the unit is powered from the CAN bus on the OBDII port anyway, which I don't believe is powered unless the car is on or charging. So there is ZERO worry about leaving it plugged in all the time.

I did what you suggested, deleted my Amazon LeafSpy and then downloaded it from Google Play Store and all is well No need to download the Amazon program or keep my phone logged onto anything else. For anyone else I'd strongly suggest NOT downloading your LeafSpy from Amazon and instead use Google Play Store. Note I'd never used Google Play Store before so I needed to set up an account with my CC# but again I'm not required to stay logged onto anything like LeafSpy from Amazon.

BTW I've been playing more with my OBDII adapter and found out that after the car is turned off for some time(10?? min) I'd not able to connect with my phone but if I simply press the brake pedal I get almost instantly connected :? I found this out by accident when attempting to turn the car on to connect and first pushing the brake pedal, I hadn't even turned the car on on when I was connected. Note the red light on the OBDII still stays on all the time but probably draws little power in the scheme of things, I'm not going to worry about it

 

[Yodrak]

As for the "BT Adapter" (it's not really a Bluetooth adapter, it's a Bluetooth compatible OBDII interface), first of all, 15mA is absolutely minuscule in the grand scheme of things. It will do nothing to your battery. Even so, the unit is powered from the CAN bus on the OBDII port anyway, which I don't believe is powered unless the car is on or charging. So there is ZERO worry about leaving it plugged in all the time.

You'd think this would be the case, and it may be with this particular unit, but there have been quite a few cases of people leaving the car for a week or more with an OBII BT reader plugged in (and the car off) only to return to a dead accessory battery.

Add me to the list of people who left their OBII module plugged in while on a 6-day vacation and returned home to a dead 12v battery. I should have realized that the OBDI does remain energized when the car is off because I often find that my iPhone WiFi is still using the OBDI after I enter my house until I manually change it to my home WiFi network.