Question to people that know about collectible cars

[evboy]

I was reading today about a rusted out car that sold for 1.9 million. this family sold his dads collection from decades ago. anyway, the article states that this car will cost another million to restore.its a 1949 talbot lago. Since these cars dont exist anymore, wouldnt making new parts for the car and putting it all together just make it part replica since they are not original parts. how does the restoration process work. how do you get parts for old cars and still consider it a classic, if the parts dont come from a original.

 

[BuyLeaf]

Having restored my own 1970 Dodge Challenger. I know it's not as old as the vehicle you stated, but the principle is the same. supply and demand is one factor, and yes original parts are always going to be more valuable than a re-pop piece say from Taiwan. I know, my 1970 Hood and trunk lids are Taiwan re-pops. Otherwise I could not afford or the time and energy to hunt down original pieces. Cost vs budget. Hope, this sheds some light on your question. This is my Sunday driver. My daily commute is a 2015 SL with premium package. This is my 2nd Leaf. My other one was a S model with quick charger and the lease was due.

 

[evboy]

so there are companies that sell new any part you would need for and old mustang, ferrari or whatever make. do you have to catalog what parts are original when you sell it at auction.

 

[RonDawg]

so there are companies that sell new any part you would need for and old mustang, ferrari or whatever make.

Depends on the car. For some cars like Mustangs and Camaros, there are pretty good parts sources. A few high end manufacturers, Mercedes in particular, will even re-make a part they have not produced in many years...at a cost of course.

If you're lucky, you might come across a NOS (new-old stock) part, meaning that it was made by the OEM but was never sold when the parts supply was still current, and was later bought up by someone when the dealer or manufacturer went bust. Of course these parts will be expensive due to their relative rarity and the fact that you know they will fit. vs. a reproduction part which may have to be modified in order to fit and may not be of the same quality. From watching Wheeler Dealers I know that a VW Bus replacement panel that is made in Brazil uses thinner steel than the original made in Germany, so even a later version of an OEM part may be inferior to the one originally fitted to a car.

A good example of NOS is the company currently called DeLorean Motor Company; it had nothing to do with John Z. himself, but when his company went bust, the new DMC bought up the remaining existing parts supply. So you could technically build a brand new DeLorean from 30+ year old brand new parts. IIIRC DMC also bought the tooling as well, so they can make brand new parts, only difference being they were made in Texas and not Northern Ireland. I believe there is another company that bought up remaining Saab parts after it went bust as well; I'm not sure if they bought up the tooling like DMC did.

For others like that Talbot Lago, you may have to manufacture a replacement part if the original cannot be restored or is missing.

 

[evboy]

interesting, but do you have to catalog every part and document each part as original or newly made. what about all these cars in paris that were exposed to the elements for 50 years. When you redo the body and take off the rusted panels, doesnt that make it now not original. if you arent aware of what im talking about here is the video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DELLe4rLILA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
how do you restore these turds and still call the car original.

 

[evboy]

so there are companies that sell new any part you would need for and old mustang, ferrari or whatever make.

Depends on the car. For some cars like Mustangs and Camaros, there are pretty good parts sources. A few high end manufacturers, Mercedes in particular, will even re-make a part they have not produced in many years...at a cost of course.

If you're lucky, you might come across a NOS (new-old stock) part, meaning that it was made by the OEM but was never sold when the parts supply was still current, and was later bought up by someone when the dealer or manufacturer went bust. Of course these parts will be expensive due to their relative rarity and the fact that you know they will fit. vs. a reproduction part which may have to be modified in order to fit and may not be of the same quality. From watching Wheeler Dealers I know that a VW Bus replacement panel that is made in Brazil uses thinner steel than the original made in Germany, so even a later version of an OEM part may be inferior to the one originally fitted to a car.

A good example of NOS is the company currently called DeLorean Motor Company; it had nothing to do with John Z. himself, but when his company went bust, the new DMC bought up the remaining existing parts supply. So you could technically build a brand new DeLorean from 30+ year old brand new parts. IIIRC DMC also bought the tooling as well, so they can make brand new parts, only difference being they were made in Texas and not Northern Ireland. I believe there is another company that bought up remaining Saab parts after it went bust as well; I'm not sure if they bought up the tooling like DMC did.

For others like that Talbot Lago, you may have to manufacture a replacement part if the original cannot be restored or is missing.

if they built delorians from scratch, since they have the tooling, what would it costs the company to make it and could they sell enough to make it profitable and worth their while.also, is it legal, or would the feds say it has to be built to current safety standards and enviromental standards.

 

[RonDawg]

interesting, but do you have to catalog every part and document each part as original or newly made.

For stuff that is going to go for realy high prices, there might be an expectation that the restoration process be documented in some way, but to what level of detail I don't know. I suspect the higher the asking price, the more detail you may need to get into. But for a daily driver VW Beetle you restored on your weekends? No.

if they built delorians from scratch, since they have the tooling, what would it costs the company to make it and could they sell enough to make it profitable and worth their while.also, is it legal, or would the feds say it has to be built to current safety standards and enviromental standards.

If they build brand new previously un-VINned DeLoreans, they would have to certify them for current safety and emissions standards.

It is useful if you have a write-off or totally unrestorable car, and can salvage the VIN from that. However you will need to prove to your local vehicle inspection agency that you bought all the parts legitimately, and didn't just steal a similar car and slap a different VIN on it.

There was a Road and Track or Car and Driver article from the late 1980's where someone built an entire MGB from individual replacement parts, using an unrestorable existing car as a VIN donor. Discovery Channel years ago aired a British show called "A Car Is Born" in which Mark Evans buys and restores a Jaguar E-Type convertible. The car turned out to be so rotten that by the time he replaced all the rusty body panels he pretty much had a brand new Jaguar, with a parts bill about equal to a real new Jag.

 

[CWO4Mann]

interesting, but do you have to catalog every part and document each part as original or newly made.

For stuff that is going to go for realy high prices, there might be an expectation that the restoration process be documented in some way, but to what level of detail I don't know. I suspect the higher the asking price, the more detail you may need to get into. But for a daily driver VW Beetle you restored on your weekends? No.

if they built delorians from scratch, since they have the tooling, what would it costs the company to make it and could they sell enough to make it profitable and worth their while.also, is it legal, or would the feds say it has to be built to current safety standards and enviromental standards.

If they build brand new previously un-VINned DeLoreans, they would have to certify them for current safety and emissions standards.

It is useful if you have a write-off or totally unrestorable car, and can salvage the VIN from that. However you will need to prove to your local vehicle inspection agency that you bought all the parts legitimately, and didn't just steal a similar car and slap a different VIN on it.

There was a Road and Track or Car and Driver article from the late 1980's where someone built an entire MGB from individual replacement parts, using an unrestorable existing car as a VIN donor. Discovery Channel years ago aired a British show called "A Car Is Born" in which Mark Evans buys and restores a Jaguar E-Type convertible. The car turned out to be so rotten that by the time he replaced all the rusty body panels he pretty much had a brand new Jaguar, with a parts bill about equal to a real new Jag.

All I can say about that is that when I restored my 1978 Porsche 928S - (Gray Market Euro Model and formerly owned by drug dealer and confiscated by DEA) I needed a Heart Bypass Operation. And the speeding tickets ... OMG, let's not even go there.

 

[minispeed]

I was reading today about a rusted out car that sold for 1.9 million. this family sold his dads collection from decades ago. anyway, the article states that this car will cost another million to restore.its a 1949 talbot lago. Since these cars dont exist anymore, wouldnt making new parts for the car and putting it all together just make it part replica since they are not original parts. how does the restoration process work. how do you get parts for old cars and still consider it a classic, if the parts dont come from a original.

In the last few years there's been a movement in the classic car scene that has cars stay in original unrestored condition. When I first heard about it I think it referenced a restoration of a Ferrari, either a GTO or early 50s Testarossa by Ralph Lauren where they speculate it could have been worth more original. Of coarse this is if the original is still driveable and good to look at.

In terms of a replica and a restoration, even if almost every single part is re made due to it's condition is that a replica is made to look the same and usually to do it in a cost effective manor or add modern improvements to it, ie air conditioning is an option in GT40 replicas and the restoration is to be exact.

A true restoration is an art, to get top dollar if you make a new part you have to make it in the same way the original was made. Many times that means forming the metal for body panels by hand. Yes the more "new" parts in there the less it would be compared to an all original in the same condition but those aren't around. Since almost all of these cars will need some work the thing that will separate them is the quality and ability to match the original workmanship of the new parts.

In the multi million dollar car world history, sometimes a connection to famous people/races and rarity are important and no matter how rusted out a car is it will never lose that.

 

[joelb]

Original paint cannot be reproduced. The car either has it... or it doesn't.

 

[sub3marathonman]

Original paint cannot be reproduced. The car either has it... or it doesn't.

True story from decades ago. My granddad knew a man, Francis Roxas, who restored Duesenbergs, Cords, etc., all very high end cars. Mr. Roxas liked my granddad because my granddad would make bolts out of stainless steel for the engines (I guess) and they were always perfect, even though stainless is extremely hard to work with. I remember watching my granddad working on the lathe, but was unfortunately too young to appreciate the skill level and thus never learned.

Well, one day I stopped in to ask Mr. Roxas about painting a '57 Chevy I had found, and asked him how much it would cost. He said, "$35,000, and it'll take a year to do it." When I gasped he added, "We paint the car underneath too."

He also said that it had taken him a lifetime to get to the level he was at, and he truly was beyond a restorer into the realm of an artist.

 

[RonDawg]

Well, one day I stopped in to ask Mr. Roxas about painting a '57 Chevy I had found, and asked him how much it would cost. He said, "$35,000, and it'll take a year to do it." When I gasped he added, "We paint the car underneath too."

That's just more than painting the car underneath. That is achieving a level of finish that is far beyond what any typical affordable car came out of the factory with. For a Duesenberg that could be worth millions at auction, yes you will want that.

 

[sub3marathonman]

Well, one day I stopped in to ask Mr. Roxas about painting a '57 Chevy I had found, and asked him how much it would cost. He said, "$35,000, and it'll take a year to do it." When I gasped he added, "We paint the car underneath too."

That's just more than painting the car underneath. That is achieving a level of finish that is far beyond what any typical affordable car came out of the factory with. For a Duesenberg that could be worth millions at auction, yes you will want that.

Yes, he could make pretty much anything that was needed, all the way to an entire body maybe. And like he said, when he was finished it would be perfect. He told me he had done a 1953 (IIRC, maybe a 1954) Buick for a friend, and every show he took it to it won first place.