Have been charging at Chevy dealer until Friday! they got a new shipment of VOLTs and unplugged my car after 20 minutes! Makes sense, it's theirs. It's OK for now I'm able to charge at work 120volt so it's not too bad. Wishing we had EVSE stations at work, and it would be great if it were possible. Without that option you have to ask yourself a question, "does this car make sense for Me?" :?:
Public Charging Problems
- Thread starter stevon
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pncguy
Well-known member
stevon said:
I asked myself that question BEFORE I bought the Leaf. I was all excited to use the NoCharge2Charge campaign and/or the free charging at my Nissan dealership. However, after I realized that a full charge really only saves me about $2, i started to question whether it was worth it.
My commute is just 30 miles round trip, so I don't need to rely on charging outside my home. I DO have L2 chargers at work, that my employer generously lets us use only for the cost of electricity at $0.11/kWh, but I have solar at home, so until I use more than I produce, my electricity is free. After that it costs me just $0.08/kWh.
Stevon, before you bought the car, what was your plan for charging? Did something change or did you start with a bad set of assumptions?
inphoenix
Well-known member
Stevon,
You can always ask your employer if they'd be willing to install an EVSE. There may be some tax benefits and rebates available for this purpose. Charging at home is pretty cheap but at the same time one needs to be prepared to charge when they are out and about (depending on the range of their commute). If you can find free charging that's great, if not we have to pay for it just like we pay for our gas.
I have a 60 mile round trip and sometimes I have a 8 mile detour as well. So the current gen leaf barely makes it for me. When the (Arizona) summer hits the AC may drain the battery more than expected and I will need to charge during the day. My work has no option for free charging but there's a public station not too far from where I am. I still got the vehicle while knowing all this as it puts me in the HOV lane which helps a lot.
Also, paying for a charge outside is still cheaper than gas and not to forger that you are helping the environment. So yes, we have to ask "does this make sense for me"? In my case it still did. Now, if I could find free charging would I take it? Absolutely? Would I go through extreme measures for it. Ummmmm no.
You can always ask your employer if they'd be willing to install an EVSE. There may be some tax benefits and rebates available for this purpose. Charging at home is pretty cheap but at the same time one needs to be prepared to charge when they are out and about (depending on the range of their commute). If you can find free charging that's great, if not we have to pay for it just like we pay for our gas.
I have a 60 mile round trip and sometimes I have a 8 mile detour as well. So the current gen leaf barely makes it for me. When the (Arizona) summer hits the AC may drain the battery more than expected and I will need to charge during the day. My work has no option for free charging but there's a public station not too far from where I am. I still got the vehicle while knowing all this as it puts me in the HOV lane which helps a lot.
Also, paying for a charge outside is still cheaper than gas and not to forger that you are helping the environment. So yes, we have to ask "does this make sense for me"? In my case it still did. Now, if I could find free charging would I take it? Absolutely? Would I go through extreme measures for it. Ummmmm no.
asimba2 said:
That's already starting to become a problem. From: http://insideevs.com/most-tesla-model-s-owners-ok-with-supercharger-abuse-emails/
Problem is that Tesla promised "free charging for life" so at this time the most they can do is ask owners to not use their charging stations as their primary charging source.
MichaelBornstein
Active member
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2014
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I copied this from another thread (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19528&start=170) where a respondant was complaining about the long lines at his local L3 charger. I think it is very applicable to this discussion,
It appears that there are at least two groups of L3 users:
a) local residents
b) travelers
Lets consider case "a":
As mentioned RonDawg, Tesla is running into this problem with their Supercharger network. These were originally designed to allow Model S users to travel around the country . Tesla had assumed that owners would buy a HPWC for use in their home for everyday use. What they are finding, however, is that at sites that are near residential areas with a lot of Teslas, local residents are using the stations for their day-to-day charging needs. Thus stations in the SF Bay area are flooded by local residents. Tesla has even started sending letters to owners asking them not to overuse the local stations. The nearest Supercharger to my house is 33 miles away, so even if I owned a Tesla, I wouldn't consider driving 66 miles RT to get a charge. However, if one was 3 miles away, I might consider using it regularly. The same would apply to L3 stations that are near residential neighborhoods. I have even seen this at L2 stations. The Northridge Fashion Mall has three L2 chargers. Prior to getting a JdeMO in my RAV4, I would stop there at about 7am (leaving Bakersfield at 5:30), and charge for about 1.5 hours before driving on. I would often find cars covered with dew and plugged in, with a full charge on the car and the charger not charging. These cars had obviously been left the night before and I would have to unplug them in order to use the charger.
Local residents usually only need to charge for 30 minutes at L3 as they can always come back the next day for another 30 minutes. They shouldn't use the public charger for long term sessions.
Now consider case "b":
The traveler has to get from point A to point B and would like to make as few stops as necessary. When I set out from Bakersfield, I have an Extended Charge (100% +/-) so that I can make it into the LA basin. I then want to recharge as few times as necessary, usually once on the way down and then again once on my way back. I will usually travel about 80 miles between these two charges and another 86 miles to get back. Therefore I will often have to charge for more than 30 minutes at each session. I am willing to spend a little extra to top off at L3 rather than L2 as I don't want to spend that much extra time in a strange location while I am charging. I would probably be upset if all of the L3 chargers were occupied by locals who don't want to or can't charge at home.
I realize that this brings up the debate of how public stations should be used, and whether people without access to a private charging station should consider buying an EV. I obviously have an opinion, but I would like to hear from those who use (or abuse) public stations for their point of view. As mentioned in several posts above, people who regularly use public stations will eventually give all EV users a bad name as moochers on the system.
It appears that there are at least two groups of L3 users:
a) local residents
b) travelers
Lets consider case "a":
As mentioned RonDawg, Tesla is running into this problem with their Supercharger network. These were originally designed to allow Model S users to travel around the country . Tesla had assumed that owners would buy a HPWC for use in their home for everyday use. What they are finding, however, is that at sites that are near residential areas with a lot of Teslas, local residents are using the stations for their day-to-day charging needs. Thus stations in the SF Bay area are flooded by local residents. Tesla has even started sending letters to owners asking them not to overuse the local stations. The nearest Supercharger to my house is 33 miles away, so even if I owned a Tesla, I wouldn't consider driving 66 miles RT to get a charge. However, if one was 3 miles away, I might consider using it regularly. The same would apply to L3 stations that are near residential neighborhoods. I have even seen this at L2 stations. The Northridge Fashion Mall has three L2 chargers. Prior to getting a JdeMO in my RAV4, I would stop there at about 7am (leaving Bakersfield at 5:30), and charge for about 1.5 hours before driving on. I would often find cars covered with dew and plugged in, with a full charge on the car and the charger not charging. These cars had obviously been left the night before and I would have to unplug them in order to use the charger.
Local residents usually only need to charge for 30 minutes at L3 as they can always come back the next day for another 30 minutes. They shouldn't use the public charger for long term sessions.
Now consider case "b":
The traveler has to get from point A to point B and would like to make as few stops as necessary. When I set out from Bakersfield, I have an Extended Charge (100% +/-) so that I can make it into the LA basin. I then want to recharge as few times as necessary, usually once on the way down and then again once on my way back. I will usually travel about 80 miles between these two charges and another 86 miles to get back. Therefore I will often have to charge for more than 30 minutes at each session. I am willing to spend a little extra to top off at L3 rather than L2 as I don't want to spend that much extra time in a strange location while I am charging. I would probably be upset if all of the L3 chargers were occupied by locals who don't want to or can't charge at home.
I realize that this brings up the debate of how public stations should be used, and whether people without access to a private charging station should consider buying an EV. I obviously have an opinion, but I would like to hear from those who use (or abuse) public stations for their point of view. As mentioned in several posts above, people who regularly use public stations will eventually give all EV users a bad name as moochers on the system.
inphoenix,
Lets just say approval from Congress is required to even be allowed to charge at my work site, this has been addressed and charging a privately owned EV/PHEV is specifically forbidden.
comment: "Charging at home is pretty cheap" Maybe in Phoenix, what is your kwhr rate there? Mine is $0.48 per kwhr at peak times of 12pm to 6 pm with varying rates at other times.
In any event it's a moot point now that I have a Fusion Energi. It's true now for me that there are no more "EV" thrills other than passing the gas station to work. Fusion is a "Luxury boat" as opposed to the Spark EV "performance beetle" model, different animals
Finally settling down at age 55 with the NSX and Spark gone, working on my next investment duplex. No pension for me, or for anyone else these days. Residual income is my manta for now. I can always return to better EVs when they have more range and are less than $100k to buy! Even so public charging IMHO will still be problematic. I believe it will get even worse, as more and more EV, PHEVs are sold. Reason? I don't see a gigantic effort by anyone to build more L1, L2, DCFC infrastructure. This is America where you have to make a profit with any venture, so who is going to pay for it? NRG, Charge point, Walmart, Home Depot, GM, Nissan, Toyota, Federal Gov, Bankrupt California?
Lets just say approval from Congress is required to even be allowed to charge at my work site, this has been addressed and charging a privately owned EV/PHEV is specifically forbidden.
comment: "Charging at home is pretty cheap" Maybe in Phoenix, what is your kwhr rate there? Mine is $0.48 per kwhr at peak times of 12pm to 6 pm with varying rates at other times.
In any event it's a moot point now that I have a Fusion Energi. It's true now for me that there are no more "EV" thrills other than passing the gas station to work. Fusion is a "Luxury boat" as opposed to the Spark EV "performance beetle" model, different animals
Finally settling down at age 55 with the NSX and Spark gone, working on my next investment duplex. No pension for me, or for anyone else these days. Residual income is my manta for now. I can always return to better EVs when they have more range and are less than $100k to buy! Even so public charging IMHO will still be problematic. I believe it will get even worse, as more and more EV, PHEVs are sold. Reason? I don't see a gigantic effort by anyone to build more L1, L2, DCFC infrastructure. This is America where you have to make a profit with any venture, so who is going to pay for it? NRG, Charge point, Walmart, Home Depot, GM, Nissan, Toyota, Federal Gov, Bankrupt California?
inphoenix said:
paulcone
Active member
Once it is reliable and there are enough stations, people will pay for it just like they pay for gas. Gas stations aren't cheap to build, either, yet those are everywhere.
paulcone,
It will take EXXON or somebody that big to stomach the startup costs. Their traditional path is to destroy competition or buy them out then suppress the technology and bury it. It's a cheaper path to dominate the market rather than to compete fairly and risk loosing the market. That's what Texaco now Chevron did with the last "threat" NiMih batterries: http://www.ev1.org/chevron.htm. It's a long tradition in the oil industry, ask a Rockefeller.......
When there is adequate infrastructure and cars can be charged in ten minutes or less, EVs may become mainstream but only after a long time. Look how long it took to replace horses as everybody's main other than walking personal transportation option.
It will take EXXON or somebody that big to stomach the startup costs. Their traditional path is to destroy competition or buy them out then suppress the technology and bury it. It's a cheaper path to dominate the market rather than to compete fairly and risk loosing the market. That's what Texaco now Chevron did with the last "threat" NiMih batterries: http://www.ev1.org/chevron.htm. It's a long tradition in the oil industry, ask a Rockefeller.......
When there is adequate infrastructure and cars can be charged in ten minutes or less, EVs may become mainstream but only after a long time. Look how long it took to replace horses as everybody's main other than walking personal transportation option.
paulcone said:
Bufordleaf
Well-known member
First, my apologies. I know my post is slightly off topic but I couldn't find the correct topic and cant' find the new topic link to start a new one.
That said, I have HOME charging problems and am really hoping someone has some advice. My daughter called me from home today, hysterical because she could not unplug the Leaf. We have had the Leaf over a year and have used the included level 1 charger exclusively to charge each night, and have not had a single problem until this morning. She said she plugged it in last night as always, with no problems. But this morning she said it simply would not unplug, as if it was stuck to the car. She squeezed the trigger over and over, pushed and pulled, but not matter what she couldn't get it unplugged. I am traveling on business so won't get to look at it until tonight.
Has this happened to anyone else? Any thoughts or suggestions?
That said, I have HOME charging problems and am really hoping someone has some advice. My daughter called me from home today, hysterical because she could not unplug the Leaf. We have had the Leaf over a year and have used the included level 1 charger exclusively to charge each night, and have not had a single problem until this morning. She said she plugged it in last night as always, with no problems. But this morning she said it simply would not unplug, as if it was stuck to the car. She squeezed the trigger over and over, pushed and pulled, but not matter what she couldn't get it unplugged. I am traveling on business so won't get to look at it until tonight.
Has this happened to anyone else? Any thoughts or suggestions?
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
It has happened before. Something in the release button breaks and it's stuck to the car. I'll try to find the threads on it
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
Found this so far: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=21207#p448542
Should be covered under 5 yr warranty. They may have to come to you house to release it.
Should be covered under 5 yr warranty. They may have to come to you house to release it.
Bufordleaf
Well-known member
DNAinaGoodWay said:
That seems to be very similar. Thanks DNA, I appreciate the help!
AlanSqB
Well-known member
Bufordleaf said:
You might just want to confirm that the lock isn't activated. It can sometimes get bumped as one exits the vehicle.
The lock switch is to the left of the steering wheel and has two settings (Auto/Lock). Place it in the center position to fully disengage the lock.
Alternately, you can hold the charging door unlock button on the remote which will temporarily unlock the port.
I hope one of these does the trick.
AlanSqB
Well-known member
This is the switch.
As others have noted, the EVSE plug Lock mechanism uses plastic parts, and isn't a deterrent to a real thief - just to would-be car-unpluggers. I almost never use it.
Bufordleaf
Well-known member
Just heard back from my daughter that it was indeed the charge lock button, which had been inadvertently pressed. Lesson learned all the way around.
Thanks to all for your help!
Thanks to all for your help!
