Public Charging Problems

[stevon]

So far I have been able to charge my car for free, but not free from hassles . Found a hotel with free charging 1.9 miles from my house but the EV charge spots were not clearly marked also no EV signs were up. The hotel guests are oblivious and they always park in the EV spots. One time a 5th parking spot opened up, I stretched the charge cable. But one of the hotel guests parking in the EV spots pulled out and caught cord damaging and breaking my charge port! No apology or note with contact info of course. Last week hotel marked 2 EV spots on the pavement, still no posted signs though. Now 2 EV spots are available but EVSE 1 is down (5 days) and EVSE 2 is no longer "gratis". Close by I was able to charge for free at Whole Foods 1.4 miles away but a host of new problems were found at that site. Spots are always in use and the other night I arrived at 5:30pm both chargers were taken #1 by BMW I3, #2 by orange FIAT 500e, #3 handicap unused. Returned at 8:15 pm with 2 miles left on my Spark EV, had to park next to handicap spaces in employee smoking area, plugged in. Came back in 1 hour to move the car to #1 or #2 spots Bimmer and 500e were still there charging. A dark blue Nissan Leaf without plates or handicapped placard parked in the handicapped spot and unplugged my Spark!! I put the #3 cord back into my Spark. Can you believe this guy? Gets worse, when I came back at 10:30 pm gate was open, blue LEAF gone and my Spark was again unplugged with a nasty WTF note under my wiper blade by the guy who unplugged my car in the first place telling ME how rude it was to unplug "his car" He signed it "blue LEAF" what an A.H. Finally the Germans and Italians left, moved Spark to the legitimate # 2 EV spot and plugged it back in, took several tries to get it going. Meanwhile the lot gate locked my car on the roof for the night . Had to use the elevator to get off the roof, stairs were locked. Came back the next morning to retrieve my car

 

[davewill]

Why not pay to charge like everybody else? Probably be a lot less hassle. Is there a chance the Blue LEAF didn't unplug you? Maybe it could have been another car which came and went or even a pranker. That would explain why Mr. Blue LEAF was so angry when you unplugged him.

 

[stevon]

I live in SDGE TOU rate area so charging at my apartment even if my landlord allowed a permanent L2 hookup, would triple my rate to $0.48 per KWH. EVGO rates start at a minimum of $1.00 per Hr along with a monthly fee. So far after 7 months, I have paid an extra $60 at my apartment occasionally charging but I've not yet reached the "Tier 3" usage ceiling yet and plan not to. Part of my plan using free charging, is to trade off typical fuel costs against the cost of this car ($ 20K after tax credits). Because we all know once 200 mi + range affordable EV cars become available that will render this car undesirable and worth almost nothing in a few years. If with charging the car for free has paid for it vs money saved on fuel (5.95 years) in my case, It will have been worth the effort to arrange for free charging at work or near home, and less painful at trade in time

 

[TomT]

I have to concur. One of the corollaries of free charging is that you have to be willing to put up with the hassles that come with it. Free charging is a broken model and will not survive except in very limited and specific cases... And it should NOT be something that you depend on for daily charging!

Why not pay to charge like everybody else? Probably be a lot less hassle.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

As you've discovered, public charging also has it's costs. Is it worth it? It may cost you more to charge at home, but you get peace of mind.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Also, eVgo starts at $1/hour of charging, not $1/kWh. Plus fees of course. Still better to charge at home or work.

 

[stevon]

TomT,
You are right, I think of it as a hobby/part time job for Supplemental income. I'm a single Engineer with little other obligations. If I did have other obligations, (wife, kids, etc.), probably wouldn't even consider owning a short range EV. My 2nd vehicle is a 4 dr Tacoma long bed. Only 18 mpg at best Missing my NSX now (SOLD)

I have to concur. One of the corollaries of free charging is that you have to be willing to put up with the hassles that come with it. Free charging is a broken model and will not survive except in very limited and specific cases... And it should NOT be something that you depend on for daily charging!

Why not pay to charge like everybody else? Probably be a lot less hassle.

 

[stevon]

My public charging problems have mostly been suspended because I am now charging at work L1. Still have to use apartment and public charging for "topping off" before the weekend. The public free charging is limited to a Chevy dealer 4 miles away. Whole foods EVSE charging stations are all broken for 3 weeks now with only the handicapped one still working.

 

[stevon]

Free charging at my local Whole Foods has resumed. All EVSE chargers are up but there is a new catch. Last night charging at EVSE #2. When I returned, was confronted by the Whole Foods security guard. He said I can only charge while I am in the store. He said my car was there too long and he has pictures of me and my car. He said this is a friendly warning! At work I resumed charging at the 2nd spot (denied between Aug -sept.) Person in charge of the building said he can't allow me to charge and block access to his daily operations any more because my parking space is needed "randomly to unload trucks" So work charging is not possible again

 

[jpadc]

Note to Mods.: This thread needs the subject heading changed to better reflect it's actual content. Might I suggest: "Latest news on the interference of my god given right to have other people pay for my fuel"

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Note to Mods.: This thread needs the subject heading changed to better reflect it's actual content. Might I suggest: "Latest news on the interference of my god given right to have other people pay for my fuel"

+1

Stevon, your charging practices help to give all EV drivers a bad reputation. Please stop. So far, your free power has cost you a broken charge port, being locked in overnight, and assorted typical hassles. Charging at home eliminates that, and for what? A buck or two a day? What price peace of mind?

 

[timhebb]

.. Free charging is a broken model and will not survive except in very limited and specific cases...

Why not pay to charge like everybody else? Probably be a lot less hassle.

I disagree that "free" charging is a broken model, but I put quotes around it since nothing is ever really free. Volta's ad-supported model (frequently seen at Whole Foods locations, for example) seems to be working and their business growing. Since the cost of L2 charging is so low, it doesn't take much to offset, and in the ad-saturated capitalist world we live in, it's an obvious solution to marry advertising and EV charging. It also is a clear inducement to draw customers to retail locations by offering EV drivers that incentive and create brand differentiation. As EV adoption advances, new ideas and new models will no doubt develop, and some of them will continue to be "free." No reason why "free" can't co-exist with paid, just as public wi-fi does today and will probably continue to. After all, the "free" wi-fi at Starbucks or Micky D's is ultimately supported by advertising too. Quality, reliability, dependability and performance issues will distinguish paid from free charging just as in other services. You pays your money - or not - and you takes your choice.

Full disclosure: In four and a half years of driving Leafs in Los Angeles, I've only rarely charged at home, always at L1, because "free" public charging has been so readily accessible and convenient for me, particularly since the LADWP began installing QC stations around town. The frequent service outages of the DWP chargers in hot weather this summer probably is a good illustration of my point about quality and reliability. But I'm confident they will work through those issues in time and restore them to a reasonable level of dependability. For me, it's worth the minor inconveniences.

 

[DaveEV]

Note to Mods.: This thread needs the subject heading changed to better reflect it's actual content. Might I suggest: "Latest news on the interference of my god given right to have other people pay for my fuel"

A bit harsh, but I will say this:

1. The Whole Foods parking lot in question is clearly marked that it's for customer use only and has a 2 hour limit (I know, I've charged there while shopping). Break the rules and expect to pay the price sooner or later.
2. Free charging is problematic because of leachers - if Whole Foods wants to eliminate the issue, simply install stations that charge a nominal rate to use.
3. eVgo L2 at $1/hr is a pretty darn good deal. Even at 3.3 kW (3.7-3.8 kW AC) it's $0.27 / kWh which is much cheaper than peak SDG&E rates.
4. Hillcrest needs more charging stations. Whole Foods has the only ones in the neighborhood.
5. If you're worried about going into Tier 3, look into the EV-TOU rate instead.

 

[stevon]

Thanks guys,

I know I sound like a whiner but just venting and informing. Isn't that what this site is for? Whole Foods is marketing their wholesome "green earth" campaign to attract customers, it works and I do buy stuff their exclusively because of the free juice. Otherwise I would just go to Ralphs if they had free juice. Still it is a major pain for them I'm thinking. I've had my more than fair use of their charging facilities and will be moving on my way to another source. Charging at my apartment is problematic. Even if there is access to the L6-30 240v30a plug (not always possible) Have to fold in mirrors and navigate the driveway past the other Tenant's cars. Since I can no longer perform a total refill of my battery pack at WF, I will not go there just for 15 minutes of juice while I pick up a bagel and a coffee. That's probably why now there is always access to the chargers lately and no access, always a struggle before

 

[mjblazin]

Whole Foods here in Dallas set up 2 2X stations in its new Uptown garage and lost track in the focus on the actual store. I found it easier to take photos of screen shots of error messages and send them to ChargePoint Tech Support myself. Unless the issue is a lack of electrical power, the WF manager could not much else than I did. As long as you have a CP account, TS will respond on your call. After several bona fide attempts, the stations work.

The stations here included h/c spots within "E" spots. Is that normal? I really doubt a h/c driver would have a PEV. WF did stick one station in middle of parking row allowing cars in one of 4 spots to use station. That is good because otherwise few PEVs would get to the designated spots. The other station along wall next to h/c spot and in prime ICE location never gets used. The garage has a lower floor that rarely gets used. That is where the stations should be in section furthest from the elevator.

 

[stevon]

Charging at my apartment is still problematic even if/when it's possible. At Whole Foods, after all EVSEs being down for a month, the chargers were eventually fixed but there is a new catch. I Was charging at EVSE #2. When I returned was confronted by the Whole Foods security guard. He said I can only charge while I am in the store (not posted, but it makes sense). He said my car was there too long and he has pictures of me and my car and said "this is a friendly warning!" I thanked him and left. That would explain the suddenly available charge parking spots. A bagel, coffee and free WIFI = 1 hour of juice, not very useful. Charging at the Chevy dealer 4 miles away for now. Found a 4th possible charge spot at work. The power is turned off outside though, they are working on turning it on for me . Fingers crossed!

 

[asimba2]

When I first took delivery of my Leaf two years ago I was excited about the idea of free juice and free driving. Now I can't wait for a nominal charge to be incurred as I can't drive my LEAF anywhere and know that the stupid 1 or 2-head EVSEs won't be taken. So I end up driving my 18 mpg SUV on long trips because I know I can actually get there.

I think 200+ mile EVs will be here long before a reasonable, trustworthy charging network. (Tesla superchargers for the win--until they too become too crowded.)

 

[stevon]

asimba2,
I know what you mean, just reloaded my portable L2 generator back into my car. I've only used it twice but I now feel naked driving without it. Once I get the L2 at work going I'll be at peace again. Without a DCFC infrastructure these short range cars are just too inconvenient for the average user. Hence the horrible resale value. I tried to trade in my Spark but the dealer said NO! "you are too upside down, good luck, we can not sell you a car" I have a 700 plus credit score and a high paying job!

When I first took delivery of my Leaf two years ago I was excited about the idea of free juice and free driving. Now I can't wait for a nominal charge to be incurred as I can't drive my LEAF anywhere and know that the stupid 1 or 2-head EVSEs won't be taken. So I end up driving my 18 mpg on long trips because I know I can actually get there.

I think 200+ mile EVs will be here long before a reasonable, trustworthy charging network. (Tesla superchargers for the win--until they too become too crowded.)

 

[mjblazin]

The Whole Foods policy is no car in the garage > 2 hours for any reason. It is not EV charge specific. Parking is free and WF does not want people freeloading as commuters to surrounding businesses.

 

[stevon]

mjblazin,

You are right about that. Only the 2 EV spots have a 2 hour limit sign though. As far as I know the WF parking lot on the roof has never been filled since I've lived in SD (13 years). Maybe on the annual "parade" day