Proposal to raise federal incentive from $7,500 to $10,000

[HXGuy]

There is a proposal on the table to change the $7,500 federal tax credit to $10,000 (for cars up to $45,000 pre-discount, it would remain $7,500 for cars over $45,000) and also change it so that the seller of the car gets the credit, so it would be offered as a deduction to the car buyer at the point of sale (like how it's done on the leases now).

Full text of the proposal:

"The proposal would replace the credit for plug-in electric drive motor vehicles with a credit for advanced technology vehicles. The credit would be available for a vehicle that meets the following criteria: (1) the vehicle operates primarily on an alternative to petroleum; (2) as of the January 1, 2012, there are few vehicles in operation in the U.S. using the same technology as such vehicle; and (3) the technology used by the vehicle exceeds the footprint based target miles per gallon gasoline equivalent (MPGe) by at least 25 percent. The Secretary of the Treasury, in consultation with the Secretary of Energy, will determine what constitutes the same technology for this purpose. The credit would be limited to vehicles that weigh no more than 14,000 pounds and are treated as motor vehicles for purposes of title II of the Clean Air Act. In general, the credit would be the product of $5,000 and 100 and the amount by which the vehicle’s footprint gallons per mile exceeds its gallons per mile, but would be capped at $10,000 ($7,500 for vehicles with an MSRP above $45,000). The credit for a battery-powered vehicle would be determined under current law rules for the credit for plug-in electric drive motor vehicles if that computation results in a greater credit. The credit would be allowed to the person that sold the vehicle to the person placing the vehicle in service (or, at the election of the seller, to the person financing the sale), but only if the amount of the credit is disclosed to the purchaser."

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/tax-policy/Documents/General-Explanations-FY2013.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TomT]

I don't believe that there is much chance of this passing under the current political climate...

There is a proposal on the table to change the $7,500 federal tax credit to $10,000 (for cars up to $45,000 pre-discount, it would remain $7,500 for cars over $45,000) and also change it so that the seller of the car gets the credit, so it would be offered as a deduction to the car buyer at the point of sale (like how it's done on the leases now).

 

[kmp647]

I agree, not much chance, but

if it did pass it would have the desired effect

the current system is just to risky for a buyer

maybe you get the credit from the IRS and then again maybe you get your return delayed and or audited......

good luck

I am so glad I leased

 

[planet4ever]

I'm suspicious. It might have the opposite of the desired effect if it did pass:

The credit would be available for a vehicle that meets the following criteria: (1) the vehicle operates primarily on an alternative to petroleum; (2) as of the January 1, 2012, there are few vehicles in operation in the U.S. using the same technology as such vehicle; ...

I'm not sure what "few" means in this context, but can we really say there are "few" electric vehicles in the U.S. as of January 1, 2012? I get the impression that the drafters may have a hidden agenda -- take all federal incentives away from battery electric vehicles and give them to natural gas and hydrogen vehicles.

Ray

 

[mark13]

Once word gets out of early battery capacity loss,10k may not be enough to help sales..

 

[Herm]

Once word gets out of early battery capacity loss,10k may not be enough to help sales..

in Phoenix or similar hellholes

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Once word gets out of early battery capacity loss,10k may not be enough to help sales..

"word" is not the key operative here. its "words" and i have experienced NO loss at all. (280 this morning) to be honest with ya, AZ weather is an anomaly (thank you!!) and most of us dont live in those conditions.

since NO ONE knows what Nissan will ultimately do with people seeing early loss, i think we all need to take a step back.

 

[mwalsh]

Once word gets out of early battery capacity loss,10k may not be enough to help sales..

"word" is not the key operative here. its "words" and i have experienced NO loss at all. (280 this morning) to be honest with ya, AZ weather is an anomaly (thank you!!) and most of us dont live in those conditions.

since NO ONE knows what Nissan will ultimately do with people seeing early loss, i think we all need to take a step back.

I put it to you otherwise...that the PNW is the anomally and most of the US lives where heat varies from hot to extremely hot during summer.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Once word gets out of early battery capacity loss,10k may not be enough to help sales..

"word" is not the key operative here. its "words" and i have experienced NO loss at all. (280 this morning) to be honest with ya, AZ weather is an anomaly (thank you!!) and most of us dont live in those conditions.

since NO ONE knows what Nissan will ultimately do with people seeing early loss, i think we all need to take a step back.

I put it to you otherwise...that the PNW is the anomally and most of the US lives where heat varies from hot to extremely hot during summer.

Michael; a definite possibility and unfortunately, most of the country like the Midwest and such has not had their Leafs long enough to make any observations.

problem is; we dont know how hot too hot is. could it be as low as 90º? that would be a problem nearly everywhere. 100º would eliminate most of the country since we should acknowledge that sustained exposure to those temps is what seems to be causing the issues

so when most of the country experiences highs in the 90's we are thinking that will only be for 4-8 hours or so unlike AZ where stays that hot even at night so is 8 hours long enough to cause a problem?

lot of questions still unanswered

 

[thankyouOB]

allota questions unanswered.
that is why we are getting the tax credits and the rebates, to be part of the early adopter group that helps determine the baselines.

 

[EricBayArea]

back on topic...

(1) the vehicle operates primarily on an alternative to petroleum

I would like to see what their definition to "primarily" is. Obviously the LEAF operates SOLELY on an alternative to petroleum, but what about the Volt, does that meet the "primarily" definition? Okay, what about the PiP? etc....

I'm sure most people would have rather had the $7,500 credit at the point of sale (either before or after tax).

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

back on topic...

(1) the vehicle operates primarily on an alternative to petroleum

I would like to see what their definition to "primarily" is. Obviously the LEAF operates SOLELY on an alternative to petroleum, but what about the Volt, does that meet the "primarily" definition? Okay, what about the PiP? etc....

I'm sure most people would have rather had the $7,500 credit at the point of sale (either before or after tax).

good question but would guess the parameters for plug ins would be the same 16 Kwh ??? capacity battery or 100% alternative H2? or whatever.

 

[planet4ever]

back on topic...

(1) the vehicle operates primarily on an alternative to petroleum

I would like to see what their definition to "primarily" is. Obviously the LEAF operates SOLELY on an alternative to petroleum, but what about the Volt, does that meet the "primarily" definition? Okay, what about the PiP? etc....

Good question, though it may be moot. Seriously, I think they are trying to exclude all BEV and PHEV based on point 2 - there were more than a "few" of them on the road in Jan 2012.

I'm sure most people would have rather had the $7,500 credit at the point of sale (either before or after tax).

I can't disagree on that. It was one of the reasons I leased.

Ray

 

[planet4ever]

good question but would guess the parameters for plug ins would be the same 16 Kwh ??? capacity battery or 100% alternative H2? or whatever.

Actually, the current law is that if it plugs in you get $2500, no matter how small the battery is. For batteries of 5kWh or more you get larger amounts, scaled up to a maximum of $7500, which is reached with a 16kWh battery.

On rereading, I'm going to withdraw my concern, and agree that Dave is right. I overlooked this statement:

The credit for a battery-powered vehicle would be determined under current law rules for the credit for plug-in electric drive motor vehicles if that computation results in a greater credit.

Ray

 

[TomT]

Which I have a problem with. I believe there should be no credit for packs under 6Kwh...

Actually, the current law is that if it plugs in you get $2500, no matter how small the battery is.

 

[kubel]

There's no way to make government subsidies fair. One could argue that making it a non-refundable credit makes this program favor the rich.

I think my idea is better- do away with the income tax altogether for everyone and replace it with nothing. Essentially an unlimited tax credit for people to buy whatever they want, including electric cars. Adjust federal spending to compensate.

 

[Stoaty]

I think my idea is better- do away with the income tax altogether for everyone and replace it with nothing. Essentially an unlimited tax credit for people to buy whatever they want, including electric cars. Adjust federal spending to compensate.

That's a great idea... until your area is hit by a disaster and you need federal assistance, or it is your time to retire and get social security, or your time to go on Medicare, or you become disabled and need to go on SSI, or you lose your job and can't get medical coverage and have to go on Medicaid or...

 

[mwalsh]

The problem with folks who don't want subsidies for stuff YOU'RE interested in subsidizing is that they generally feel entirely opposite when it comes to the stuff THEY are interested in subsidizing.

 

[adric22]

I would think it might actually be better to spend more federal money on charging stations. The vehicles would become a lot more desirable if there were more places to charge them. Also the range would become less important as would the loss of battery capacity over time.

I realize the government has already spent money on public charging but I'm not to thrilled on the way it has been distributed.

That is one comfort I have. I plan to keep my Leaf until it is paid off, even though I've leased it. So it will be another 7 years before it is paid off. Even though I've had it a year with no capacity loss, I'm sure it will have lost quite a bit of capacity after 8 years of ownership. But I'm comforted to know that charging infrastructure should be more developed by then. So even if my leaf will only do 40 miles, it would still be a pretty useful car if there was a charging station in every parking lot.

 

[leafedbehind]

Ugh, what a mess. Tax gas appropriately and be done with it! $7500 is plenty incentive for the LEAF. It brings it completely within the price range of a similarly-equipped ICE. Any additional incentive is going to go to the manufacturers as they adjust their MSRPs up, not to end buyers.