Preliminary RANGE results

[SilverLeaf]

The original link:

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/14/nissan-pegs-leaf-range-between-47-and-138-miles-individual-resu/

 

[Herm]

Actually, starting with the 2004 model, the Prius does have electric A/C.
.
The AC in the 2nd gen Prius (and same/similar in gen 3) draws b/w 2-5 amps depending upon your settings and the temp.
.
The PHV Prius uses a heat pump system that is more efficient than the current Prius climate control system, but it is also much more complex--but it allows it to heat or cool in cold or hot weather respectively.

That 2-5 Amps must be for the blower motor in the cabin only, the compressor itselt needs 1300watts and probably runs off the main high voltage battery.. I am pretty sure the Prius uses a second fan in the engine bay for the AC condenser (and the radiator for the engine).

I would imagine all modern electric cars will use a heat pump system for heating, all it takes is an inexpensive reversing valve for the freon flow.

 

[Nubo]

...I would imagine all modern electric cars will use a heat pump system for heating, all it takes is an inexpensive reversing valve for the freon flow.

Heat pumps are only effective down to about freezing, if memory serves. Not sufficient for a motor vehicle, so you would still need resistive heating, though at milder ambient temps the heat pump could kick in.

 

[efusco]

Actually, starting with the 2004 model, the Prius does have electric A/C.
.
The AC in the 2nd gen Prius (and same/similar in gen 3) draws b/w 2-5 amps depending upon your settings and the temp.
.
The PHV Prius uses a heat pump system that is more efficient than the current Prius climate control system, but it is also much more complex--but it allows it to heat or cool in cold or hot weather respectively.

That 2-5 Amps must be for the blower motor in the cabin only, the compressor itselt needs 1300watts and probably runs off the main high voltage battery.. I am pretty sure the Prius uses a second fan in the engine bay for the AC condenser (and the radiator for the engine).

I would imagine all modern electric cars will use a heat pump system for heating, all it takes is an inexpensive reversing valve for the freon flow.

The amperage reading monitors all throughput including the HV system. For instance, when regen braking I see as high as 100 amps, when accelerating as high as -100amps. While the climate control system may run at a higher amperage while I'm in motion (where I can't monitor just resting draw), I doubt it's much higher than the 5 amps or so b/c even when running nearly full blast that's as high as I've observed.

 

[MikeBoxwell]

I always recommend to people considering an electric car to work out the range they require, double it and that is the range they need when buying an electric car.

If you need a car that can do 40 miles a day, choose a car with a minimum claimed range of 80 miles. If you need a car that can do 50 miles a day, choose a car with a minimum claimed range of 100 miles. If you need a car that can do 100 miles a day... right now, forget it, but stay tuned for future developments.

The benefit of doing this calculation is simple: it means you never really have to worry about range for any of your driving. It also means you normally will have range 'in hand' for emergencies, or diversions or the odd extra short trip you just needed to do.

These 'rule of thumb' figures have been fairly consistently shown to be about right for every electric car that has come along. Nissan's figures show that 'worse case scenario' is approximately half the LA4 figures.

 

[sjfotos]

@Mike Boxwell, an excellent rule of thumb and one that I applied in making my own calculations.

 

[redLEAF]

I always recommend to people considering an electric car to work out the range they require, double it and that is the range they need when buying an electric car.

If you need a car that can do 40 miles a day, choose a car with a minimum claimed range of 80 miles. If you need a car that can do 50 miles a day, choose a car with a minimum claimed range of 100 miles. If you need a car that can do 100 miles a day... right now, forget it, but stay tuned for future developments.

The benefit of doing this calculation is simple: it means you never really have to worry about range for any of your driving. It also means you normally will have range 'in hand' for emergencies, or diversions or the odd extra short trip you just needed to do.

These 'rule of thumb' figures have been fairly consistently shown to be about right for every electric car that has come along. Nissan's figures show that 'worse case scenario' is approximately half the LA4 figures.

Unless of course you have deep pockets for a Tesla Roadster (estimated range 245 miles!) so it is possible for a price ...

http://www.teslamotors.com/performance/perf_specs.php

 

[mwalsh]

Ooh, that doesn't look good.....50mph highway using aircon on a 95 degree day = 47 miles of range!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Ooh, that doesn't look good.....50mph highway using aircon on a 95 degree day = 47 miles of range!

that is probably the same as any other "range" indicator. its based on the instantaneous rate of discharge over a given period of time when accelerating and when he gets to speed, the range indicator will gradually increase.

now this sounds like its a system that does not work, but imagine if on a hill with a 10 mile grade and charging at the top. would be nice to know that you had enough power to get there right?

now to have a system that would automatically consider grade, speed AND weather conditions would be awesome, but i dont think we are there yet. but then again, neither is anyone else

 

[mwalsh]

Yeah, I suppose. But at this point I am really needing to know what this thing will do at a steady 65mph, with and without AC. Yes, my range anxiety is back!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

so the worst option is summer, AC and stop and go. that is the worst for everyone, but most people dont know how to drive in stop and go traffic, so they will probably get that range.

i read post after post after post at PC about people getting 38 mpg. but that is because they participate at the mini acceleration test or "most seconds spent waiting at the light" contest.

now, my minimum needs is 58 miles on the freeway at 40% 60 mph, 60 % 70 mph. obviously, will probably be doing 60 mph all the way to preserve batts. now hot summer weather is simply not a common thing around here, but using AC is. we only get temps in the mid 70's for the most part, but its all a matter of conditioning, so AC will be used since "some" of us cannot have wind in their hair (i dont care...but i dont have any hair either!!)

bottom line; YMMV!! i am encouraged by these figures since this is what the "average" driver will get and i am not average. my 2010 Prius, i get 55 mpg which is 10% over EPA and 10-20% more than the "average" driver so i expect to exceed the Nissan figures as well

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Yeah, I suppose. But at this point I am really needing to know what this thing will do at a steady 65mph, with and without AC. Yes, my range anxiety is back!

it will do it, but i would not expect much more than 70 miles like that. i think that range anxiety is normal and that is why Nissan is releasing to areas that will have charger installs starting this summer.

if using it for commuting, i would (as i have) starting petitioning your boss for a plug in. even at 110 volts. 8 hours is enough to put 30 miles back on the ticker. better than nothing. that is what i have at work now. just a basic 110. but hey, it FREE!!

 

[evnow]

Ooh, that doesn't look good.....50mph highway using aircon on a 95 degree day = 47 miles of range!

And they say 37 mph @ 70 F gives 136 miles.

 

[evnow]

I always recommend to people considering an electric car to work out the range they require, double it and that is the range they need when buying an electric car.

Yes, when we have lots of options, that is what we should do.

When we have all of one option, people will try to streatch and accommodate to it ...

 

[Gavin]

So nice that my commute is 6 miles each way...So I have yet to worry about range anxiety...though I will look happily to the future when electrics have better range....more is usually good

Gavin

 

[mitch672]

So nice that my commute is 6 miles each way...So I have yet to worry about range anxiety...though I will look happily to the future when electrics have better range....more is usually good

Gavin

If your commute is really 6 miles, you might want to consider biking and/or jogging/walking, that will save you say, oh about $26K

 

[evnow]

http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2010/06/nissan-agrees---ev-mileage-will-vary-leaf-tests-show-91-mile-variation.html

• 138 miles while cruising at 38 miles an hour with an outside temperature of 68 degrees Fahrenheit;
  105 miles at a fairly steady 24 mph in city traffic with the air conditioner off and an ambient temperature of 77;
  70 miles at a steady 55 mph on the highway on a hot 95-degree day with the air conditioning on;
  62 miles in the winter - 14 degrees outdoors - with heater on and stop-and-go traffic reduced to an average 15 mph crawl.
  47 miles Heavy stop-and-go traffic with average speed of 6 miles an hour, on an 86-degree day with the AC blasting

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

that all means that in my situation, mostly "winter" type driving, i will probably get around 80 miles of range. that is better than i had hoped for.

hoped for ; 70 miles, need 56

remember, the hit on heating should not be as much as AC on a well designed system. since battery pack and motor heat can and should be collected, filtered and used to warm cabin. i can easily see multiple heater vents in the floor thruout the car allowing even low temperature heat to effectively warm the cabin.

look at floor based radiant heat. this could be done on the Leaf. put in 6-8 mini vents. so instead of most cars having too much heat in the front, not enough in the back, we have balanced heat. better yet, place a zone control where each vent can be manually or electrically adjusted...

 

[Gavin]

So nice that my commute is 6 miles each way...So I have yet to worry about range anxiety...though I will look happily to the future when electrics have better range....more is usually good

Gavin

If your commute is really 6 miles, you might want to consider biking and/or jogging/walking, that will save you say, oh about $26K

ha...haven't had a car in 5 years...scooter or bike everyday (snow, ice, 100 degrees...all the same to me )

That said, I told myself I could get any car I want when I turn 50...I will ride in 6 degree weather, but it gets old after a while...and I have ridden on days I really really shouldn't have (1/2 of ice covering the road for all 6 miles...that was "fun"...but stupid as hell)...

Plus I want to support EVs....and I'm adding solar to my roof...so having an electric car, even for grocery trips and stuff like that, well it is all bonus when the power is "free".

But yes I will still bike many many days...and still scooter too...but having a LEAF (and then a Fiat 500 EV when they come out) is just a smart thing to do when you live at 6000 feet and actually do have seasons...

Gavin

 

[Azrich]

I'm disappointed in the 47 miles range (55 mph with 95 degrees) because this will make driving the 100 miles from Tucson to Phoenix almost impossible. It is interstate driving the whole way - 75 mph - which will bring down the range more. I'm afraid there won't be enough fast charging stations to do this. It would mean stopping twice for fast charges, fast charge while in Phoenix, and then twice coming back home. Also, we have about 4 months of the year when 95 degrees is a "cool" day.

Plus, my commute is 46 miles, roundtrip, with no possibility of getting a charger at work - an AZ public school with no money. Sure, I might not need AC in the morning, most of the time, but there are days in August and September when it is already 85 - 88 degrees during my morning drive. I had a convertible for a while and found it too hot many days to have the top down in the mornings.

I'm feeling a bit betrayed. At the beginning Nissan said "100 mile range", but now we find that is not so. My certainty of ordering a LEAF has just moved down a few notches. Maybe the Tucson - Phoenix area is not suited for this vehicle. Air conditioning is a necessity here on many days. I'll need more data.

Ouch! This hurts!