Preheating without app

[Rat]

Now that AT&T has discontinued its 2G service I can no longer preheat my 2011 Leaf from the NissanConnectEV website. I am aware that I can get an upgrade installed in the car, but I don't think it's worth the money for the small use I would get out of it. The only time I ever want to preheat (or cool) is wintertime when I am about to leave for the gym in my shorts and T-shirt. It gets below 40 in my garage sometimes. This used to be easy. I'd log onto the website, click the heat icon and 3 or 4 minutes later the car would be toasty. When it was preheating it was plugged in and the blue light would come on showing that it was drawing power from the wall. The dash lights would be off.

I have tried going out to the garage before getting dressed for the gym and turning on the car to accessory mode to preheat, but the heater won't run in accessory mode. I can start the car up and put it in Park with the heater cranked up to 80 or so (the heater is so underpowered it's necessary to raise it that high to get any noticeable warmth out of it for the first 5 or 10 minutes). The car does preheat, although it doesn't pull the power from the EVSE, which means it is reducing my range by using battery power; that's not an issue since I only do short drives. All the dashboard lights come on along with whatever else is powered during normal operation. However, whenever I've done this, when I then unplug it and try to drive, it won't shift into drive or reverse. Instead it pops into Neutral and remains there. No matter how I move the shift lever, nothing happens. If I turn it off and start it again, every warning light on the dash comes on, some flashing, and the car won't go into gear at all. I think there's some sort of internal overheating going on, but I'm not sure. If I let it sit unplugged and turned off for about 5 minutes, it will then start up normally and drive.

I know there is a timer function, but I'm not on a regular schedule and some gym days I skip the gym altogether. It seems too cumbersome to go out and reset the timer for every single gym day and remember to unset it after I'm done.

My solution is the simple one of not preheating, instead wearing sweats over my gym clothes, and bearing the cold air blast from the vents while the heater comes up to temperature during the drive to the gym and removing my sweats in the parking lot when I get there. The car gets warm about two minutes before I arrive. Coming home is no problem because the car retains enough heat and I'm warmed up from the workout. The air temperature is usually moderate by then, too.

This is admittedly a minor problem that only applies two or three days a week in the winter, but it seems like there ought to be a simple on/off button to push inside the car to start and stop the heater using the exact command or process that was sent via the 2G system before. It should send all the power directly to the heater, not to the dash and traction motor until it comes up to heat. I'm also worried that I could damage something if I misjudge or get distracted when preheating the new way, which is why I don't do it.

Am I missing some easy solution? I've searched the manual for how to start just the heater and other than the remote or timer methods, I don't see any. Any suggestions?

 

[JimSouCal]

+ 1

 

[baustin]

First off, you should never leave an unattended vehicle turned on and in Neutral. Shifting the car into Neutral while the cord is attached is likely what causes the odd behavior, as the Leaf is designed to not allow movement when the cord is attached.

The way it is supposed to work, is to put press on the brake and turn the car on with the cord attached. Leave it in park and turn on the heat. When you are ready to leave, turn the car off and the disconnect the cord. It should then start up normally and be able to drive.

If you plan on keeping the car long-term, I would think it is worth the $199 to restore the convenience of remote Climate Control.

 

[baustin]

You could also go the route that some others have taken. Using a portable electric heater placed in the car to preheat it before traveling. This is not as effective in the 2011/12 models, as the heaters liquid components are still cold and take time to get up to temperature. The warm interior, combined with seat heaters, may be sufficient for short trips.

 

[Rat]

First off, you should never leave an unattended vehicle turned on and in Neutral. Shifting the car into Neutral while the cord is attached is likely what causes the odd behavior, as the Leaf is designed to not allow movement when the cord is attached.

I misspoke in my initial post. I left it in Park, not Neutral. I've edited that to correct it. When I later unplugged and tried to shift into reverse or drive, it instead went into Neutral and wouldn't go into any other gear except park. I was focused on the fact I couldn't get out of neutral, but it ran heating only in park.

The way it is supposed to work, is to put press on the brake and turn the car on with the cord attached. Leave it in park and turn on the heat. When you are ready to leave, turn the car off and the disconnect the cord. It should then start up normally and be able to drive.

Perhaps it should, but it doesn't.

 

[Rat]

If you plan on keeping the car long-term, I would think it is worth the $199 to restore the convenience of remote Climate Control.

I don't see why. I don't have a smart phone and cannot install the app. The only use I've ever had for the connectivity in the 6 years I've had the car is this one thing.

 

[jjeff]

I'm a little confused by your OP but let me tell you what I do for manual preheat and it works quite well, I think it's what your trying to accomplish.
1. Whether car is plugged in or not I push the timer override button.
2. If car is not plugged in I plug it in.
3. Get in car and hold down brake and push power button, set desired heat.
4. Get out of car and lock car with either outside button on door handle or remote.
5. When I come back to car, unplug EVSE.
6. Unlock and get in car(and this is an important part) hold down brake pedal and push start button. Not doing this will only result in car in neutral, you won't be able to get it in drive.
7. Drive away with a nice warm car(or just warm car for pre '13 Leafs )

If you do the above and something doesn't work, it's not working like either of my Leafs and report back on what part isn't working so we can troubleshoot.
Note doing the above will give you heat and also allow power to be drawn by EVSE but note unless your EVSE is >16a L2 you'll probably lose charge during preheat as the EVSE will not be able to keep up with the heater which draws ~18a L2 when in full heat mode. If you have a 3.6kw Leaf charger you won't have a choice other than to lose a few percent or so during preheat again as 3.6kw is ~16a L2, less than required to maintain charge during full heat.

 

[Rat]

I'm a little confused by your OP but let me tell you what I do for manual preheat and it works quite well, I think it's what your trying to accomplish.
1. Whether car is plugged in or not I push the timer override button.
2. If car is not plugged in I plug it in.
3. Get in car and hold down brake and push power button, set desired heat.
4. Get out of car and lock car with either outside button on door handle or remote.
5. When I come back to car, unplug EVSE.
6. Unlock and get in car(and this is an important part) hold down brake pedal and push start button. Not doing this will only result in car in neutral, you won't be able to get it in drive.
7. Drive away with a nice warm car(or just warm car for pre '13 Leafs )

If you do the above and something doesn't work, it's not working like either of my Leafs and report back on what part isn't working so we can troubleshoot.
Note doing the above will give you heat and also allow power to be drawn by EVSE but note unless your EVSE is >16a L2 you'll probably lose charge during preheat as the EVSE will not be able to keep up with the heater which draws ~18a L2 when in full heat mode. If you have a 3.6kw Leaf charger you won't have a choice other than to lose a few percent or so during preheat again as 3.6kw is ~16a L2, less than required to maintain charge during full heat.

First I tried to do this without pressing on the brake pedal, i.e. starting the car in accessory mode, but the climate control would not come on. Then I have tried doing this exactly as you describe, although I don't bother to lock the door since it's in my locked garage. It does heat up, although the blue dash lights do not come on, so I think all the power is being drawn from the battery, not the L2 EVSE. The car does heat up. The problem comes when I then come back to the car, unplug, and try to drive. The car will only go into neutral, not reverse or drive. I tried turning the car off and then on again. Warning lights came on all over the dash including the master warning light and the "EV System warning light" which I'd never seen before. The car still won't go into gear. If I then turn it off, remove my key, and let it sit for five minutes or so and try again, it starts and drives normally. This has happened twice now (out of two tries), and I don't want to keep doing it. It sounds like it might be hurting the car.

 

[SageBrush]

Am I missing some easy solution?

Yes.

Put on sweatpants and a hoodie for those couple of days you find too cold each year.

 

[gshepherd]

Check your 12V battery. I'll bet it is getting tired, undercharged, and resulting in the Christmas tree lights by the second start.

I haven't tried this in a while, but I believe if you unplug the car, then plug it back in, you'll trigger the charger to come online. Then get in and "start" the car with the brake pedal pressed to pre-heat. By design, the LEAF won't allow shifting out of park while plugged in.

After preheating and you come back and unplug the car, you'll need to reboot it by cycling power to be able to shift into drive. If your 12V battery is low, this may be why you are having problems at that point.

My experience is based on a 2016, so take it for what it's worth. I don't remember if this is all discussed in the manual.

 

[Rat]

Am I missing some easy solution?

Yes.

Put on sweatpants and a hoodie for those couple of days you find too cold each year.

Actually, that is my solution - see the OP. Still, it seems reasonable to expect a car heater to work.

 

[jjeff]

Check your 12V battery. I'll bet it is getting tired, undercharged, and resulting in the Christmas tree lights by the second start.

I haven't tried this in a while, but I believe if you unplug the car, then plug it back in, you'll trigger the charger to come online. Then get in and "start" the car with the brake pedal pressed to pre-heat. By design, the LEAF won't allow shifting out of park while plugged in.

After preheating and you come back and unplug the car, you'll need to reboot it by cycling power to be able to shift into drive. If your 12V battery is low, this may be why you are having problems at that point.

My experience is based on a 2016, so take it for what it's worth. I don't remember if this is all discussed in the manual.

Don't disagree it could be something flaky with the 12v battery but while at first I was unplugging/replugging the J1772 connector to get it to heat and charge, I now find I only need to push the timer override button. When I do this the car immediately starts to charge, then when I start the car as normal(except it won't fully start as the EVSE in plugged in) I get heat and the blue lights continue to flash as they do when the car is normally charging. Not saying it would hurt to do the j1772 cycling thing, just don't think it's necessary, at least in my cases.

 

[arnis]

It is vital that contactor is engaged. Otherwise ACC mode will not draw grid power.
TO engage contactor vehicle MUST BE CHARGING.
Either press timer override button (even at 100% SOC charging should start for some time).
Or unplug and plug in and then enter vehicle and try to "start it".

Vehicle will draw up to 3kW from the grid and heater will be limited to 3kW as well.
Definitely engage full recirculation mode, this is what automatic preheat procedure did.

 

[IssacZachary]

It seems like if I turn the charging on (if it's not charged to 100% I just push the charging-timer-off button) and then push on brakes and turn on car I can get heat through the heat pump heater. But if it's to cold for the heat pump to come on for some reason this doesn't seem to turn on the resistance heater.

¿Has anyone else noticed this?

 

[jjeff]

....Either press timer override button (even at 100% SOC charging should start for some time).
Or unplug and plug in and then enter vehicle and try to "start it".

Vehicle will draw up to 3kW from the grid and heater will be limited to 3kW as well.
....

Yes even with a fully charged vehicle pushing the timer override button will start charging but don't delay, start car right away. Same thing for unplugging and replugging car, start it right away after to get heat.
Are you positive about your last statement? I regularly see the heater draw much more than 3kw while hooked to the grid, it's the reason if your EVSE is less than ~3.8kw you see your battery actually slightly lose SOC during preheat, at least thats what I've noticed.
Note heatpump Leafs may be different, I have no experience with those

 

[arnis]

It's definitely true for newer models that have air PTC (MY13 and newer). 2011-12 models might be less smart.

 

[Reddy]

Rat, I have experienced what you described a couple of times as well and cannot duplicate. I also think it's a low 12V battery. Follow Jeff's post exactly and it should work. That's what I do and it works on my 2011. The 2013-2016 models might be different with the heat pump, but with the 2011-2012 we get a maximum of 3.8 KW of heat when L2 charging or 1.2 KW when L1 charging. You absolutely must be charging and the battery must be below 100% charged. I've actually seen the heater turn off when the battery reaches 100%

 

[jjeff]

...but with the 2011-2012 we get a maximum of 3.8 KW of heat when L2 charging or 1.2 KW when L1 charging. You absolutely must be charging and the battery must be below 100% charged. I've actually seen the heater turn off when the battery reaches 100%

Interesting, on my '12SL when I monitor the energy use screen I see the speedometer type gauge bounce up to 5 or even 6kw during preheat but I agree it seems to basically average out to ~3.8kw(preheating with L2) but personally I'd say that 3.8kw might be actual heat output as my EVSE is a 3.8kw input and during cold weather(teens or colder) preheating I actually lose a bit of charge, my '13S that has the 6.6kw charger I've noted also loses charge when I set my EVSE to 3.8kw output(16a@240v) but will retain charge set it to 18a or slightly gain battery charge with my normal 19a setting.
I've never actually seen the heater shut off during preheat but on my '12 because the built in charger can't quite keep up with preheat as long as it starts it should keep going. I haven't noticed my '13 shutting off either but since that vehicle is garaged I don't tend to preheat it as often as my '12 which sits outside all the time and therefore gets preheated almost every day.
I must admit it's been so long since I've preheated with L1 I didn't remember it having such a low kw preheat but I guess it makes sense as if it drew a full 3.8kw during preheat someone preheating for a full 30 minutes could arrive to a battery much lower than 100%, even with L2 preheating when it's 0 or below zero the interior isn't what I'd call toasty, better than nothing but not warm either, 1.2kw would barely temper the air

 

[Reddy]

...but with the 2011-2012 we get a maximum of 3.8 KW of heat when L2 charging or 1.2 KW when L1 charging. You absolutely must be charging and the battery must be below 100% charged. I've actually seen the heater turn off when the battery reaches 100%

Interesting, on my '12SL when I monitor the energy use screen I see the speedometer type gauge bounce up to 5 or even 6kw during preheat but I agree it seems to basically average out to ~3.8kw(preheating with L2) but personally I'd say that 3.8kw might be actual heat output as my EVSE is a 3.8kw input and during cold weather(teens or colder) preheating I actually lose a bit of charge, my '13S that has the 6.6kw charger I've noted also loses charge when I set my EVSE to 3.8kw output(16a@240v) but will retain charge set it to 18a or slightly gain battery charge with my normal 19a setting.
I've never actually seen the heater shut off during preheat but on my '12 because the built in charger can't quite keep up with preheat as long as it starts it should keep going. I haven't noticed my '13 shutting off either but since that vehicle is garaged I don't tend to preheat it as often as my '12 which sits outside all the time and therefore gets preheated almost every day.
I must admit it's been so long since I've preheated with L1 I didn't remember it having such a low kw preheat but I guess it makes sense as if it drew a full 3.8kw during preheat someone preheating for a full 30 minutes could arrive to a battery much lower than 100%, even with L2 preheating when it's 0 or below zero the interior isn't what I'd call toasty, better than nothing but not warm either, 1.2kw would barely temper the air

intersting. Maybe all models are a bit different. Mine is the 2011 without cold weather package and thus no battery, seat, steering wheel heater. Also without heat pump. I have never seen the battery level decline during pre-heating, but maybe that's just the original 2011s. Heck we don't even have a %SOC meter

 

[jjeff]

I have never seen the battery level decline during pre-heating, but maybe that's just the original 2011s. Heck we don't even have a %SOC meter

Yes my '12 also doesn't have the SOC meter that was added in '13 but I do have a LeafDD which gives me SOC among other things.
Also note during more moderate temps I don't actually lose charge during pre-heating, just probably 20s and colder, which I'd guess you don't get too many days like that in WA :lol: