Potential Leaf owner with typical questions

[powersurge]

I might look at a Volt in your case.

There are a few red flags: 60 miles in the winter is pushing it, especially if your wife like the car warm. The range on a LEAF (really any car) drops significantly in the winter, not including the heat pump/resistive heater issue.

Get the car with QC, you will not regret it. There are deals out there on 2013 cars with low mileage. In Chicago area I have seen cars with 5K miles being priced at $13K. There should be a lot of cars coming of lease and dealers can apply $5K if they want to purchase the car.

Anyway, as you figure it out I live in Chicago and commute daily 50 miles to and from work. We have had two bad winters and I mean bad winters with temps in 20 below range. The worse mileage I got was 74. In the first year I averaged 4.3 miles/KWh that included record breaking 26 days of temperatures below zero Fahrenheit (-17.7C), for the first time ever, 90% of Lake Michigan was covered in ice. it was one very long and cold winter.

So far in 2015 I am averaging 4.4 miles/kWh over 15K miles.

I bought my car on November 16 2013 and as of today I have 30K miles. The car is driven daily and I have no complaints. As a mater of fact, I liked it so much that few days ago instead of returning it at the end of the lease, I bought my car.

----------------------------------------------------
That is a good idea to measure your mileage on the long term. We (I included) seem to always be concerned with the mileage we get on trip to trip... Maybe I should just stop resetting the mileage calculator and get a good overall "average" mileage over 6 months or a year. Doing it like that, you can get a good measure of performance problems as they develop.

 

[aarond12]

That is a good idea to measure your mileage on the long term. We (I included) seem to always be concerned with the mileage we get on trip to trip... Maybe I should just stop resetting the mileage calculator and get a good overall "average" mileage over 6 months or a year. Doing it like that, you can get a good measure of performance problems as they develop.

Agreed. I've never reset my mileage meter since I got the car. I'm at 4.4 miles/kWh though a Texas summer and one mild winter. I always drive in "B" mode and rarely drive on the freeway.

The reason I suggested a Volt in this case was because of a lack of specifics about the drive. Yeah, 30 miles is a no-brainer, but 60 in the winter on the highway with the heater on isn't. When he said his wife likes the car warm, that is another red flag. The Volt can turn on its ICE for heater duty alone. (That's not as wasteful as it sounds since over 70% of the power of an ICE is heat.)

From my original house, my round trip to work was 18 miles. From my new house it's 24 miles. I'm the perfect candidate for an EV, especially living in the south. As always, your mileage may vary.

 

[powersurge]

I am glad that I "shook the tree" a bit regarding buying used cars... No, I am not suggesting that people buy the top car with leather and all the other crap. I just suggest that these used cars are so inexpensive at this time. Buy one with all the good options if it means a difference of $1-$2K. Damn, how often can the price difference between a good car and a GREAT car only be a $2k spread? For your information, I bought the cheapest S model when I bought the car new, and saved enough money to pay for the battery when I eventually replace it. The $5-$6K difference in price range was not important to me. Used, however, go for all the goodies...

Also, people seem to worry what this car will be worth in the next few years, they shouldn't. This car is an APPRECIATING asset. I charge my car every day for FREE at a chargepoint station, and pay ZERO in transportation costs. I figure I save $2000 per year in gas that I do not spend, and the car will save that amount for decades if you keep it running... What gas car can keep making you money every mile you drive it?

 

[hacker]

I am glad that I "shook the tree" a bit regarding buying used cars... No, I am not suggesting that people buy the top car with leather and all the other crap. I just suggest that these used cars are so inexpensive at this time. Buy one with all the good options if it means a difference of $1-$2K. Damn, how often can the price difference between a good car and a GREAT car only be a $2k spread?

You definitely have a point on the pricing thing. I looked at a car near me on a used dealers lot, SV w/QC and premium, a pretty rare combo it seems. Clean car, good miles, he wouldn't budge off of 12k. Was ready to buy it until my friend with access to Manheim figured out the dealer paid $8600 for it and from what I could tell had no significant recon costs. I couldn't bring myself to pay 3k over dealer wholesale and the car ended up selling about a week later. Dumb move on my part, in this case it wasn't even so much the price which was a very good deal, it was the dealers markup that made me hesitate.....

 

[SoFlaLeaf]

Hello Leaf Owners,

I have been reading a lot out here over the last few weeks to learn all I can from you all. With the exceptional deals on off-lease vehicles, I am considering purchasing a 2013 Leaf in the next few weeks. I live in South Florida, and have seen a few other Leaf drivers on this forum from my general area. Hope to learn more from you local guys.

Currently, in this area, there is a 2013 SV for sale for 11K, and a few 2013 S for 10K and even 9K. I will look at each and then decide if I want to spring for the prem package. From what I have read here, the 2013 battery is an upgrade from earlier models, so I will stick with that year. I just recently bought the OBDII adapter and LeafSpy, and will use that to check on the health of the cars that I look at.

I have seen a lot of angst out here among the 2011 owners who are nearing the end of their warranty period, wondering if they will qualify for a new battery. Looks like some will and some won't, but, and correct me if I'm wrong, it seems like the ones that are getting replacements are from the hotter climates, such as Phoenix. Some have said to stay away from cars that have lived in a hot climate, as that will sap the life out of the battery quicker than those that live up north. Maybe I should be happy to drive a Leaf here, where there is a better chance to see the degradation necessary to get a replacement battery. What do you all think?

My commute is short, only 24 mi round trip, so L1 charging should be sufficient for my needs. I would like to get a car with a QC port if possible, just so I have that option if I want to use it.

Looking forward to joining you all in the near future!!

 

[powersurge]

IMO, if buying used, I would definitely get the 6.6kw charger and the QC port, even if it is a little more money... We do not know the future, and these upgrades are FUNCTIONAL, which improve the charging performance of the car. The 6.6 charger cuts the charging time in HALF... NOW. (must have). QC charge port? Who knows, in 4-5 years, they may free QC chargers everywhere, and you do not want to be left in the cold with a-limited use car like this one....

http://www.mlive.com/penaseeglobe/index.ssf/2011/05/dorr_resident_abandons_high_ga.html

 

[TimLee]

... From what I have read here, the 2013 battery is an upgrade from earlier models, ...

Some change from 2011 / 2012, but not much agreement on impact on capacity degradation. May not be much improvement over 2011 / 2013.
In hot areas people that have driven enough are beginning to qualify for the capacity warranty.

But it is repair or replace to nine capacity bars or more.
So far Nissan is doing full replacements.

South Florida is hot enough that those that drive enough miles are beginning to qualify for capacity warranty on 2011 LEAFs.
But you are driving fairly modest miles and 2013 may not qualify for replacement.

 

[powersurge]

I feel that for used, get the newest car you can with the lowest miles, and they you will have the longest battery life. What if you buy a 2011, and have to dump $5500 into a battery into a used car??? People Sound like they are looking to get a used car and then get Nissan to COMP them a new battery for free, so basically they would be getting the car for free... Sounds like those blokes who return a 5 year old grill to Costco and ask for a refund?

 

[cwerdna]

NOW. (must have). QC charge port? Who knows, in 4-5 years, they may free QC chargers everywhere, and you do not want to be left in the cold with a-limited use car like this one....

http://www.mlive.com/penaseeglobe/index.ssf/2011/05/dorr_resident_abandons_high_ga.html

Good luck w/your hopes. There were few free CHAdeMO DC FCs throughout the time I leased my Leaf. There aren't many now.

I used only 1 at a Nissan dealer, and the rest at 3 different Walgreens. ALL have them have transitioned to be paid at a ripoff $0.59/kWh on Blink or ripoff NRG eVgo (pricing at bottom of https://www.nrgevgo.com/ev-drivers/freedom-station-plans/) w/headache customer service and billing (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19528 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=19835). Most other stations (e.g. at Nissan dealers) have also transitioned from free to paid long ago, partly due to http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15867.

Ecotality behind Blink went bankrupt ages ago and their carcass got scooped up by CCGI. They can't even get their financials out w/o huge delays and their numbers are scary: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=CCGI.

For NRG evgo, http://www.wsj.com/articles/nrg-energy-unveils-moves-to-reduce-debt-cut-costs-1442587204 (Google for NRG to Split Off Renewable Businesses, Pay Down Debt then click thru), says:

The new renewables unit, which the company is calling “GreenCo,” will hold NRG’s money-losing electric-vehicle charging business as well as its residential solar-installation business.
...
NRG has been one of the most aggressive builders of electric-vehicle charging stations, under its EVgo brand, but sluggish sales of plug-in cars have hurt the effort.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=357539#p357539 says "Nissan says the average cost to install their DC Fast Charge unit is $49K for material and labor".

Some other figures at http://www.mychevysparkev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3753.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I used only 1 at a Nissan dealer, and the rest at 3 different Walgreens. ALL have them have transitioned to be paid at a ripoff $0.59/kWh on Blink or ripoff NRG eVgo (pricing at bottom of https://www.nrgevgo.com/ev-drivers/freedom-station-plans/) w/headache customer service and billing (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19528 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=19835). Most other stations (e.g. at Nissan dealers) have also transitioned from free to paid long ago, partly due to http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15867.

Ecotality behind Blink went bankrupt ages ago and their carcass got scooped up by CCGI. They can't even get their financials out w/o huge delays and their numbers are scary: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=CCGI.

Herein lies a major dilemna of expanding the quick-charging network. Those who would use them (i.e. us EV drivers) view $0.59/kWh as a "ripoff", yet even at those prices, the companies are unable to make a profit.

Compared to home fueling, quick charging will always be more expensive. That's ok with me. You aren't just paying for the electricity, you are paying for the quick charger to be there in the first place. If we want these networks to survive long-term (without government subsidies) - and who here doesn't? - they must be able to earn enough profit from selling electricity in order to pay back their initial investment.

Moreover, having quick access to power while on the road is worth a lot to me. It would be the difference between being a 100% EV family and having to keep a PHEV in my driveway. It will also convince a lot more people that BEVs are "ready for primetime". If they were available, I would use quick chargers maybe 1-2x a month. Compared to my normal fueling at $0.10 - 0.13 / kWh, it's more expensive. Heck, today it's more expensive than gas. But by allowing me to ditch the gas car completely, I would save more money overall.

And sometimes it's not about the money anyway - why else would we be spending $20-30k on a quickly depreciating vehicle? Some of us do care about the external societal cost of our own personal decisions.

 

[Falco]

Good luck w/your hopes. There were few free CHAdeMO DC FCs throughout the time I leased my Leaf. There aren't many now.

I am sorry but the availability to free CHAdeMO chargers is dependent on ones location. In Chicagoland area all Nissan dealers have installed QCs that are not only free but available 24/7. Some would required membership but most do not. I have used QC too many times to count.

If I were looking for a used car, I would certainly be looking for one with the QC port.

 

[Evoforce]

Good luck w/your hopes. There were few free CHAdeMO DC FCs throughout the time I leased my Leaf. There aren't many now.

I am sorry but the availability to free CHAdeMO chargers is dependent on ones location. In Chicagoland area all Nissan dealers have installed QCs that are not only free but available 24/7. Some would required membership but most do not. I have used QC too many times to count.

If I were looking for a used car, I would certainly be looking for one with the QC port.

+1 Nothing like having the ability to QC when you need it and the equipment is available.

 

[cwerdna]

Good luck w/your hopes. There were few free CHAdeMO DC FCs throughout the time I leased my Leaf. There aren't many now.

I am sorry but the availability to free CHAdeMO chargers is dependent on ones location. In Chicagoland area all Nissan dealers have installed QCs that are not only free but available 24/7. Some would required membership but most do not. I have used QC too many times to count.

Yep. It is. Let's see how long those DC FCs in your area remain free (including those WITHOUT Nissan NCTC incentive), reliable and have no long lines developing. As someone else rightfully points out, even "free" charging has a cost: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=424997#p424997.

+1 Nothing like having the ability to QC when you need it and the equipment is available.

I suppose, but I never really needed to QC when I had it. It was more of, hey, it's kinda on the way home and I might be able to pick up some free juice quickly while catching up on email and/or forums. But, it was almost always a slight detour to go to the DC FC and get back to where I was going. And, sometimes the DC FC was in use. Worse was when someone would leave their car plugged into the DC FC and leave w/o leaving any contact info and charging had ramped down to L2 speeds or less.

Again, not worth $1K to $1.5K premium to me. $1K will buy 250 gallons of gas at $4/gal. If I only achieve 40 mpg in my Prius, that's 10,000 miles of driving. If the CHAdeMO inlet were free/a forced feature, then my tune might be different on this.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If the CHAdeMO inlet were free/a forced feature, then my tune might be different on this.

It's now standard on all SV and SL models, starting with the 2016 Leaf.

 

[Falco]

Yep. It is. Let's see how long those DC FCs in your area remain free (including those WITHOUT Nissan NCTC incentive), reliable and have no long lines developing. As someone else rightfully points out, even "free" charging has a cost: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=424997#p424997.

Listen, I bought my car when DCFC was not available, therefore, lack of CHAdeMO availability didn't play any role in my purchasing decision. Also, there was no NCTC back then. When I got my car, there was only one operational DCFC at the Illinois Institute of Technology. Not a single dealer had them installed. Two years later, there are almost everywhere. Their deployment is not cheap and I am not objecting to paying for a quick charge when necessary.

 

[gkl888]

Hi Leaf owners, this is my first post. I'm considering a 2015 leaf as my first all electric car but want to know what you think of this offer if its good or not. A dealer yesterday offered me a 2015 Leaf SV w/ Premium package. Information of the offer below.

2015 Leaf SV w/ Premium package: (Purchase)
Vehicle Price: $34,710.00
AutoNation Savings: - $3,210.00
Customer Rebate: - $5,000.00
AutoNation Price: $26,500.00

Sales Tax (estimate): + $2,591.96
Title Fee: + $29.25
Documentation Fee: + $499.50
Balance Due (estimate): $29,620.71

Lease offer is $384.00 / month for 36 months with $10,760.10 residual
Money factor is 0.00033

Another dealer told me they have incoming 2016 SV (with the 30kwh battery) arriving Dec. 18 of this month. Info below.

2016 SV Leaf (Purchase)
MSRP: $35,495.00
Invoice Price: $33,591.00
Costco Price: $33,541.00
Factory Rebate: $3500
Net Sales Price: $30,041.00
plus tax and fees
Lease offer is $458.00 /month for 36 months

I want to get the bigger battery but with the price difference above . Our state offers no incentive so only federal $7500. What do you think? Wait til next year when the 2016's SV getting better incentives or go with the 2015 SV offer? Thanks.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I replied in another topic: The '15 lease offer is only good if you plan to buy the car off-lease. As it is the residual is too low, and the payment too high. They don't mention the residual on the '16, but it is probably also low, so if you plan to buy the car after the lease ends, that might be the better deal. If not, I'd wait for incentives to increase on the '16. In short, if you just want to lease for now, negotiate to get the residual up and the payment down on the '15. $14k would be a reasonable residual, IMO

 

[gkl888]

Thank you for the reply. I'm waiting for the dealer to reply back on the 2016 SV residual. I have not leased before so any input would help. Did you buy or lease your '13 SV leaf? Do you think the dealer could do a better offer if I buy the car after the lease ends? I was told it is the best they can offer. I have not negotiated yet though.

 

[gkl888]

Thanks for the tip. I went to carmax and they have a 2013 Leaf S w/ QC but no cruise control ($12,000.00 & 23k miles odemeter). Dash shows 100% full charge with all 12 battery bars and good for 83 miles. Temperature here is about 50F outside. I have an OBDII adapter and planning to use the Leaf Spy lite to check the battery condition as suggested from others but don't know as to what values (SOC,AHR,GIDS, etc.) to look for to know if the battery is still good. Is this price too much for a used 2013 leaf S w/ QC and worth the $12k? Any advice please. Thanks