Post Your Battery Degradation Results

[kmp647]

2012 SL Leaf delvered 11/11/11
lost first CB at 41,000 miles in May 2014
Leafstat shows 79% capacity 52.3 ah 217 gids at full charge

charged to 100% nightly 58 mile RT commute.
30 or so QC's to date.
Northern Va , hot summers
my lease is up in January 2015

 

[Weatherman]

2012 SV in Atlanta
First bar lost 8.6.13 at 25,300 miles.
2nd bar lost 7.9.14 at 32,850 miles.
Looks like I am on track for a free battery under warranty before I hit 5yrs or 60k.
If the above is a trend, should be 4.4 years and 48k when I lose my 4th bar.
Perhaps ATL heat isn't LEAF-worthy...that'd be a shame for the recent #1 LEAF market in the world.
If anyone can point me to a recently updated chart of bars lost by geography/age/mileage I'd love to see how mine is tracking relative to others in ATL/similar climes.
Thanks!

For a lot of people, they just get a LEAF for the incentives (state tax credit, HOV lane access, etc.). Keep the car for a few years, then dump it. Until the new heat-resistant batteries are proven to be really heat-resistant, the LEAF will still be a throw-away car.

At two years, I'm still waiting for bar 11 to fall. Even at 51.58 Ahrs, it's still hanging on. Looking at the capacity gauge, you'd still think the battery was in good shape. 22%+ gone is not good shape.

 

[TomT]

There is a good reason why Nissan made the first bar nearly three times larger than all the others...

Looking at the capacity gauge, you'd still think the battery was in good shape. 22%+ gone is not good shape.

 

[RegGuheert]

If anyone can point me to a recently updated chart of bars lost by geography/age/mileage I'd love to see how mine is tracking relative to others in ATL/similar climes.

Just put your data into Stoaty's Battery Degradation Spreadsheet. It was calibrated with 2011/2012 LEAFs from various climates.

For your LEAF, I put in the following data:

City (Sorted by Name): Atlanta, Georgia
Miles/kWh: 5.0
Days/week in Sun 5.0:
Total Mileage (Odometer): 32850

Manufacture Date: 11/15/2011
Date of Delivery: 12/31/2011
Date of Reading: 7/10/2014
Actual Capacity (AH): 52

The model predicts 18% loss while your car shows 21% loss.

 

[suwaneedad]

Reg, used the Stoaty model but the outcome doesn't make much sense.
I get 4.0 (plus or minus 0.1 depending on the season and driving style).
Car is garaged 100% of the time it is not in use.
Model says 17.83% predicted loss, but also points out actual loss of 22.11% (2nd bar just evaporated).
So that's why I'm interested in a page where ATL users (or similar clime) have logged their actual age/mileage/capacity bar devolution.
The Stoaty prediction model says I won't hit the battery warranty jackpot, yet pretty simple extrapolation from life to date says I will hit that jackpot.
Either way, love my LEAF and continue to be a happy owner of two (#2 is leased).
BMW i3 is in my field of vision now, as is Tesla Gen3 down the road.
I really want to continue supporting Nissan for bothering to be the leader in this space, but the capacity degradation due to lack of active cooling may make it hard for me to do so.
If I can get a new warranty battery in the Year 4-5 area, and thereby run my 2012 for 8-10 years as I normally do, I'll be squarely in the LEAF camp for many many years to come.
That said, the replacement battery may only have 9 bars on it (that'd be PR silly of Nissan, but who knows what they'll do).

 

[lorenfb]

"Tesla Gen3 down the road"

Dream on!

What auto manufacturer has EVER announced a product three years out like Tesla, i.e. Gen3?
They even haven't fully presented the 'X' and it's do for full production in 1Q 2015.
But given the hype in the Tesla stock, many will believe anything.

 

[RegGuheert]

Reg, used the Stoaty model but the outcome doesn't make much sense.
I get 4.0 (plus or minus 0.1 depending on the season and driving style).
Car is garaged 100% of the time it is not in use.
Model says 17.83% predicted loss, but also points out actual loss of 22.11% (2nd bar just evaporated).
So that's why I'm interested in a page where ATL users (or similar clime) have logged their actual age/mileage/capacity bar devolution.
The Stoaty prediction model says I won't hit the battery warranty jackpot, yet pretty simple extrapolation from life to date says I will hit that jackpot.

Stoaty assumed that calendar losses would slow as the battery degraded and that cycling losses would proceed in a linear fashion. I have long stated that I think it should be the other way around: calendar losses should proceed linearly and cycling losses should slow as the vehicle ages.

The result of all this is that for vehicles like yours and mine where calendar losses are dominant, I predict the model will underpredict total losses by a larger and larger fraction as time goes on.

But the simple fact is that Stoaty's Battery Degradation Spreadsheet has so far closely predicted the degradation of our LEAF's battery. Before the P3227 update, it predicted a bit more loss than the LEAF was reporting, but now, about six weeks after the update, it is predicting less loss, and the capacity of the car is still falling from the update. Actual drop is about 7% higher than predicted right now, but I'll wait to report more details once it appears things have stabilized.

 

[Stoaty]

But the simple fact is that Stoaty's Battery Degradation Spreadsheet has so far closely predicted the degradation of our LEAF's battery. Before the P3227 update, it predicted a bit more loss than the LEAF was reporting, but now, about six weeks after the update, it is predicting less loss, and the capacity of the car is still falling from the update. Actual drop is about 7% higher than predicted right now, but I'll wait to report more details once it appears things have stabilized.

Last summer my capacity was dropping like a rock, around 1.5 Ah per month (although that may have been partly due to the P3227 update not having fully taken effect, which I think I got in June). So far this summer it has dropped about 0.25 Ah over 3-4 weeks. I am seeing a significant slowing of capacity loss, which I hope holds for the rest of the summer.

 

[lorenfb]

Anyone who has owned laptops over the last ten years should have an intuitive
perspective on Lithium battery capacity loss, i.e. both aging and cycling have
very similar effects long term. So most Leaf owners should know, or have known,
what to expect from Lithium batteries long term without any extensive data analysis.

 

[RegGuheert]

Last summer my capacity was dropping like a rock, around 1.5 Ah per month (although that may have been partly due to the P3227 update not having fully taken effect, which I think I got in June).

Yeah, that's basically what I am faced with right now. Capacity is dropping rapidly and *never* goes up, but I just got P3227 at the end of May. As such, there is no way for me to differentiate between the effect of the update versus the effect of the heat.

So far this summer it has dropped about 0.25 Ah over 3-4 weeks. I am seeing a significant slowing of capacity loss, which I hope holds for the rest of the summer.

That's good to hear! (Unless of course that causes you to lose your fourth bar just after it goes out of warranty!)

 

[TomT]

You've inadvertently but succinctly summed up the entire story: Thankfully, Tesla IS unlike any other manufacturer.
There is no question in my mind but that we will see a Gen 3.

What auto manufacturer has EVER announced a product three years out like Tesla, i.e. Gen3?

 

[thankyouOB]

yes, p3227 throws a pile of static into what is happening, perhaps even if you have a gid meter.

 

[lorenfb]

"There is no question in my mind but that we will see a Gen 3."

Really? And what's the basis for this other than typical Tesla hyperbole!

"Tesla IS unlike any other manufacturer."

Right, they have to continually 'pump' the stock price.

 

[MikeinDenver]

"There is no question in my mind but that we will see a Gen 3."

Really? And what's the basis for this other than typical Tesla hyperbole!

"Tesla IS unlike any other manufacturer."

Right, they have to continually 'pump' the stock price.

Well so far they have delivered on what they have said though not quite as soon as they initially said.

 

[JeremyW]

HEY. This thread is not about Tesla gen 3. Go take it somewhere else.

I'm down to 53.54 Ah at 28,000 miles. Trending down, but not quite as aggressive as last year.

 

[ranss12]

So I'm at 56.95 AH at 42,000 miles here in the upstate NY area. Not bad, but not great either. Am I correct in thinking that if I had gotten a lizard battery in my 2012 LEAF, it wouldn't have helped me much.

 

[DaveInAvl]

So most Leaf owners should know, or have known,
what to expect from Lithium batteries long term without any extensive data analysis.

Intuition takes many different forms depending on the individual. Me, I'm grateful for the more-accessible results of extensive data analysis, even if I "shouldn't" need them

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

So I'm at 56.95 AH at 42,000 miles here in the upstate NY area. Not bad, but not great either. Am I correct in thinking that if I had gotten a lizard battery in my 2012 LEAF, it wouldn't have helped me much.

probably not

 

[lorenfb]

"2013 LEAF; 9031 miles. Ah; 64.72-66.27, Hx; 99.13-101.67%. @70% estimate; 117,726 miles"

Very questionable, as mine is:

2013 Leaf; Purchase 11/27/13, 8400 miles, 258 GIDs, 58AHr (60 X SOC) per LeafDD, 1st bar drops @ 53AHr

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

"2013 LEAF; 9031 miles. Ah; 64.72-66.27, Hx; 99.13-101.67%. @70% estimate; 117,726 miles"

Very questionable, as mine is:

2013 Leaf; Purchase 11/27/13, 8400 miles, 258 GIDs, 58AHr (60 X SOC) per LeafDD, 1st bar drops @ 53AHr

would a screen shot do it for you?

or would you rather hear a dozen other LEAFers chime in with similar numbers?