Jimmydreams
Well-known member
SilverLeaf said:
I think you'll be VERY pleased!! Congrats!!
:mrgreen:
Our solar production
- Thread starter mwalsh
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
I think you'll be VERY pleased!! Congrats!!
:mrgreen:
I was going to come on a couple of days back and moan that I hadn't had a day of production equal to or better than that on December 30th (24.42kWh). Well, thanks to the winds blowing out anything that might have interfered with my production today, I am glad to report a new daily record of 25.38kWh today! :mrgreen:
Gonewild
Well-known member
I have a branch I need to cut off that shades late in the day when power is down to 1200watts and then drops fast. I was thinking I could maybe get another .5kwhmwalsh said:
I got today 24.5kwh
Jimmydreams
Well-known member
It was sunny and cool all day on the coast....mwalsh said:
My solar cranked out 27.82kWh today, the best day of the past month!!
LEAFfan
Well-known member
SilverLeaf said:
You're so very welcome SilverLeaf! I was glad that I could help. Hope our LEAFs come about the same time.
hill
Well-known member
Here's to hoping you got a nice bargain, as prices for both labor AND product continue to fall. Our Sunpower 225's (36 total ... there's still room for 4 more on the inverter, and the roof) likely cost more (per individual panel) 2 or 3 years ago than what the newer stuff costs today. And as the latest and greatest (higher and higher efficiency) panels come out, the prices on the 2nd generation stuff continues to drop. I've seen some of the REAL old PV panels (way less efficient) go for as little a $1 per watt.SilverLeaf said:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/solar-wind/4306443
That's great news for everyone. Of course, the vendor I priced checked (back in Florida) required you buy them in volume.
. . . . and for today, as of 2PM, we've generated 19.55kWh
Not too shabby for mid January. We find that by mid January, we end up generating more than we use. It's the prior 8 weeks that kill us.
.
Boomer23
Well-known member
Boomer23 said:
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED! The nasty solar-shading tree has been topped safely. I was able to see a nice little bump of increased generation on my TED graph, though it was late afternoon and almost time for solar shutdown. The following day's generation was 10% greater with the same amount of sunshine.
Adrian
Well-known member
Has anyone here tried the solar panel lease approach? I saw a link on the Nissan Leaf Facebook page and submitted my info with 3 of the companies listed for an evaluation. I'm wondering what, if any issues, to look out for.
Here's a link to the article: http://greenlivingideas.com/2010/10/13/free-solar-home-states/ .
Here's a link to the article: http://greenlivingideas.com/2010/10/13/free-solar-home-states/ .
uspearls
Active member
Adrian said:
Yes! I just had a Solar City installation days ago (5.04 kW - 24 Kyocera 210W panels, grid tied Fronius IG Plus 5.0 inverter, system monitoring). I'm expecting SDG&E to come bless it tomorrow or Tuesday so I can turn it on after an excruciating 8 month wait! However, since there is no sign of my precious Cayenne Red Leaf (deliver pending, October 1 order date), what's the hurry :?:
For the record, my initial impression of Solar City is excellent - very professional, from sales, to customer service to design to installation. They appear to be very overwhelmed with demand (they became a Home Depot provider after I signed up) but they addressed the unexpected delay with financial compensation, so you can't ask for more than that.
So far as issues...there are so many. I did a lot of reading as it sounds you are doing and the lease is truly a fascinating option that ultimately benefits the consumer through increased flexibility and competition. Here are just a few of the issues I researched/considered/discovered:
- Payback period (mine should be under 6 years)
- There are leases (you pay for the use of the equipment) and there are PPAs (you contract for the power itself) - I personally was not sold on the PPA model but you may want to compare the economics
- What is the lease term (mine is 15 years)? Any prepayment options (mine offers zero down, partial prepay and full prepay)
- Any escalator clause in the lease payments?
- Is there an option to purchase? If so, how is the residual calculated? To renew? To upgrade?
- Are there stated production guarantees?
- Are system monitoring, service and insurance included?
- What are your options if you sell your home during the lease term?
Just a few things to think about...personally I don't think there is one right model, as for many things. I was attracted by the low initial investment (I chose the partial prepay option, which probably was about 60-70% less cash out than my purchase option net of incentives. I recognize my payback period will be shorter than for a purchase, but that there will be a "crossover" point after which it would have been better to purchase. Any decent company should give you accurate financial models comparing lease, purchase and "do nothing" scenarios - always check their assumptions carefully. You have to decide how long you will be in your home, whether transferring the risk (performance, service, insurance) to a lessor is valuable to you and whether having the option to upgrade to improved technology earlier than you might consider under a purchase are all worth it to you.
Feel free to PM me and good luck! I've had an absolute blast thinking about it, planning it and reading all of the hand wringing over production during our harsh Southern California winter...and I'm about to be right there with the rest of you guys!
Jeremy
hill
Well-known member
Question;uspearls said:
Our system was sized according to our prior 2 year's worth of SCE usage/billing. Now, if your system is based similarly, doesn't that necessarily mean that your usage will increase, due to EV charging not accounted for during the prior 2 years?
Gonewild
Well-known member
I bought my system and it was sized to my past usage but since it been installed I have replace my 30yr old AC with a new 2 stage SEER 15. I also added Radiant barrier to my attic and more insulation as well. I should have a lot of power to give my new LEAF.
GeorgeParrott
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Messages
- 207
We first installed an
18 panel 220w Sunpower system in a near optimized south facing line in August of 2008. This initial install was set as AWNINGS with about 40" of each panel OFF the roof and providing shade for all of our exposed second story windows. I brought in about a dozen PV contractors but only 3 would actually give me a bid on the awning format I demanded. We are most pleased with this installation, as even in full Sacramento Valley midsummer all of our upstairs windows get full shade from the PV panels ! At that same time we also installed a solar hot water system above the PV panels on the east end of the roof area.
From that initial install, we totally wiped out our actual electricity use billing (we still pay a connect fee of about $13/month to Pacific Gas and Electric), and we reduced our annual natural gas bill by about 50%.
We have a new house with pretty much state of the art insulation, etc. But since we are in a brand new development there are NO trees of any size to compromise solar input to the panels.
Anticipating replacing both of our Toyota hybrids (Prius and Camry) with the Chevy Volt (already now in the garage) and the LEAF (delivery in February), I further added a second 7 panel Sunpower 220w system with a second inverter (our original inverter was maxed, so we had to have the second) in October of 2009. These 7 panels are placed in a conventional format actually ON west end of the roof above the earlier awning format install.
With the double PV system, last year we generated 1200kW MORE than we used and we had a "credit" with PG&E of $438 on our annualized bill for electricity (though PG&E will not be paying us that credit, since they don't have to for 2009-10, as the required payback law only became effective onward from January 2011 apparently). Anyway, with time of use billing and charging our EVs during that midnight to 7 am period and also on the more open low rate weekend times, I project that we will still have ZERO annual electricity use costs even with both of the EVs getting their power mostly at home and also be cutting our annual vehicle upkeep (fuel and service) costs from around $2300 per year to around $300 per year.
Our max solar PV production runs around 36kW/day in the peak periods, and our baseline house USE tends to be around 16-18kW/day; we try to avoid actually using significant power draw in peak periods and with the insulation quality of the home, we don't need our AC unless we have summer temperatures above around 98 degrees. We do our washer and dryer loads in off-peak times, even using the delay timer on the machines themselves to optimize that negative impact on our bill. Further we did have PG&E switch us to the E9 rate (for EV owners), so that gives us an off-peak cost of around $0.06/kW and a PEAK cost of around $ 0.30/kW. Hence we generate excess and get credit at $ 0.30/kW and use most heavily at the off-peak rate of $ 0.06/kW.
We also have, through Sunpower online monitoring of our system with graphic summaries of hourly, daily and monthly output through their online site.
Life seems good!
18 panel 220w Sunpower system in a near optimized south facing line in August of 2008. This initial install was set as AWNINGS with about 40" of each panel OFF the roof and providing shade for all of our exposed second story windows. I brought in about a dozen PV contractors but only 3 would actually give me a bid on the awning format I demanded. We are most pleased with this installation, as even in full Sacramento Valley midsummer all of our upstairs windows get full shade from the PV panels ! At that same time we also installed a solar hot water system above the PV panels on the east end of the roof area.
From that initial install, we totally wiped out our actual electricity use billing (we still pay a connect fee of about $13/month to Pacific Gas and Electric), and we reduced our annual natural gas bill by about 50%.
We have a new house with pretty much state of the art insulation, etc. But since we are in a brand new development there are NO trees of any size to compromise solar input to the panels.
Anticipating replacing both of our Toyota hybrids (Prius and Camry) with the Chevy Volt (already now in the garage) and the LEAF (delivery in February), I further added a second 7 panel Sunpower 220w system with a second inverter (our original inverter was maxed, so we had to have the second) in October of 2009. These 7 panels are placed in a conventional format actually ON west end of the roof above the earlier awning format install.
With the double PV system, last year we generated 1200kW MORE than we used and we had a "credit" with PG&E of $438 on our annualized bill for electricity (though PG&E will not be paying us that credit, since they don't have to for 2009-10, as the required payback law only became effective onward from January 2011 apparently). Anyway, with time of use billing and charging our EVs during that midnight to 7 am period and also on the more open low rate weekend times, I project that we will still have ZERO annual electricity use costs even with both of the EVs getting their power mostly at home and also be cutting our annual vehicle upkeep (fuel and service) costs from around $2300 per year to around $300 per year.
Our max solar PV production runs around 36kW/day in the peak periods, and our baseline house USE tends to be around 16-18kW/day; we try to avoid actually using significant power draw in peak periods and with the insulation quality of the home, we don't need our AC unless we have summer temperatures above around 98 degrees. We do our washer and dryer loads in off-peak times, even using the delay timer on the machines themselves to optimize that negative impact on our bill. Further we did have PG&E switch us to the E9 rate (for EV owners), so that gives us an off-peak cost of around $0.06/kW and a PEAK cost of around $ 0.30/kW. Hence we generate excess and get credit at $ 0.30/kW and use most heavily at the off-peak rate of $ 0.06/kW.
We also have, through Sunpower online monitoring of our system with graphic summaries of hourly, daily and monthly output through their online site.
Life seems good!
greenleaf
Well-known member
Wow. You have a system and setup in place that I can only dream off. ;-)GeorgeParrott said:
I think it's funny that I've been getting 1kWh a day more on days when the winds have blown any crap out of the area, over days when there is only smog/haze.
wsbca
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
Active wind can also cool the panels (by exchanging the otherwise hot air underneath them moreso than blowing on them directly), resulting in greater efficiency. We had our best day of the calendar year yesterday by far, with sky clarity similar to the preceding 3 days, warmer ambient temperature (which is bad), but much more wind.
Yep, see this data from one of my panel/inverters for the 21st (on the right) and the 23rd (on the left). The blue line is power production and the red line is invterter temperature. You can see how the peak power production is significantly higher yesterday and how the temperature peaked much later as winds died down in the afternoon. The 23rd was about 5 degrees warmer than the 21st as well.wsbca said:
That said - on my system, power production on the two days was basically the same - 10.8 kWh on the 21st and 11.1 kWh on the 23rd. If the temperatures had been closer, the difference would have been more significant.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Interesting. If only I didn't mind the wind (it makes too much mess). :lol:
GeorgeParrott
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2010
- Messages
- 207
One potential additional advantage to having the panels installed in an offset-from-the-roof, awning format, is that there is more cooling airflow up and under the panels for at least some additional efficiency, especially on the really intense hot days of California Valley summers. We get airflow up the side of the house and under the panels rather than a more static heating of the whole panel and radiant heat from the tile roof.
uspearls
Active member
[/quote]
Question;
Our system was sized according to our prior 2 year's worth of SCE usage/billing. Now, if your system is based similarly, doesn't that necessarily mean that your usage will increase, due to EV charging not accounted for during the prior 2 years?[/quote]
My system was designed on prior (12 month I think) usage but I also have since replaced an old AC unit with a high efficiency two stage unit and for me it's somewhat academic because I almost maxed out my available roof area for the PV system. I think it's a judgment call whether or not to size a PV system for an EV if you're only looking at return on investment, especially if you're leasing the EV and not sure whether you'll buy out the lease and/or continue down the EV "road" (excuse the pun).
Question;
Our system was sized according to our prior 2 year's worth of SCE usage/billing. Now, if your system is based similarly, doesn't that necessarily mean that your usage will increase, due to EV charging not accounted for during the prior 2 years?[/quote]
My system was designed on prior (12 month I think) usage but I also have since replaced an old AC unit with a high efficiency two stage unit and for me it's somewhat academic because I almost maxed out my available roof area for the PV system. I think it's a judgment call whether or not to size a PV system for an EV if you're only looking at return on investment, especially if you're leasing the EV and not sure whether you'll buy out the lease and/or continue down the EV "road" (excuse the pun).
Moved my production figures to a Google documents spreadsheet:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AnSYHt_rpvYydHhpdHdwTEtLX0taeDZyXzdFY0QxWGc&hl=en&authkey=CPOvlYAD
Best production day yet yesterday.....26.63kWh!
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AnSYHt_rpvYydHhpdHdwTEtLX0taeDZyXzdFY0QxWGc&hl=en&authkey=CPOvlYAD
Best production day yet yesterday.....26.63kWh!
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