OT: Make Cell Phone unlocking legal again

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Ingineer said:
Personally, I think the subsidy model should be done away with. The phone should be separate from the service, and it shouldn't be "bundled". You buy and own your own phones, then pay a much more reduced plan payment each month (because you aren't paying for the phone). I'm sure people that want to buy expensive phones on credit still will be able to, but it should be optional, not required!
I think we have two issues. One is that the two major carriers have incompatible networks. So you can't take a phone from one to the other. The second issue is more a question. Why don't ATT or Verizon offer a lower price if you bring your own phone? That's a puzzler but may be related to the first -- if the phones are incompatible then it's not likely you can pick up customers since most of them will be on your network to begin with?

Note that Metro PCS was one of the entities petitioning for an exemption. They're in the process of being sold to T-Mobile, but a smaller carrier would have something to gain by offering a BYO plan.
 
SanDust said:
One is that the two major carriers have incompatible networks. So you can't take a phone from one to the other. The second issue is more a question. Why don't ATT or Verizon offer a lower price if you bring your own phone? That's a puzzler but may be related to the first -- if the phones are incompatible then it's not likely you can pick up customers since most of them will be on your network to begin with?


Not strictly true anymore. iPhone 5 has both CDMA and GSM transmitters built in. So in reality you could take an iPhone 5 to any service provider. But even with phones that don't have such a feature, you should be able to take a compatible phone to any provider using the same kind of network. That's why I prefer PAYG services over contract ones. Europe is so far ahead of us in this respect - PAYG service from both tier-one providers and a multitude of MVNOs (mobile virtual network operators, who use bandwidth leased from the tier-one providers) makes for a MUCH more competitive environment.
 
TomT said:
I don't think most people would consider paying full unsubsidized retail for a phone an acceptable compromise... Think $800 for an iPhone, for example...

I usually pay around $1000 for a new phone. But I usually keep them about 5 years too, so it's only $200 per year. My iPhone 3GS is 3,5 years old now, might be replacing it with an iPhone 6 or so.

And I pay ~$35 per month (NOK 199,-) for my plan which includes all the voice, SMS and data I need.
 
jkirkebo said:
I usually pay around $1000 for a new phone. But I usually keep them about 5 years too, so it's only $200 per year. My iPhone 3GS is 3,5 years old now, might be replacing it with an iPhone 6 or so.

And I pay ~$35 per month (NOK 199,-) for my plan which includes all the voice, SMS and data I need.
Our problem is that the major carriers don't offer a BYO plan. You pay $75/month and get a subsidized phone every two years or you pay $75/month and buy your own phone at full retail. Obviously not a lot of incentive to buy your own phone.

The carriers say there isn't a demand for a BYO plan because customers only want subsidized phones, but in fact customers want subsidized phones because there isn't an advantage to buying an unlocked one.
 
SanDust said:
jkirkebo said:
The carriers say there isn't a demand for a BYO plan because customers only want subsidized phones, but in fact customers want subsidized phones because there isn't an advantage to buying an unlocked one.
Exactly. I would also like to know why prepaid plans that do not subsidize the cost of the phone still cost as much as contracts, yet ride at mere 3G speeds. And on a related note, notice how difficult it is to operate a tablet, other mobile device or even phones themselves as a soft phone using a bluetooth headset.

Yeah. I posted this petition on Facebook as well. :geek:
 
SanDust said:
jkirkebo said:
I usually pay around $1000 for a new phone. But I usually keep them about 5 years too, so it's only $200 per year. My iPhone 3GS is 3,5 years old now, might be replacing it with an iPhone 6 or so.

And I pay ~$35 per month (NOK 199,-) for my plan which includes all the voice, SMS and data I need.
Our problem is that the major carriers don't offer a BYO plan. You pay $75/month and get a subsidized phone every two years or you pay $75/month and buy your own phone at full retail.

Wow, you pay $960 more than me over two year and still have to pay something for the phone (I guess subsidized isn't "free" ?). That's a bad deal if I ever saw one. I'm coming out way ahead paying $1000 for a phone and kepig it 4-5 years while paying $35/month.

I guess the market for used phones is really small ?
 
jkirkebo said:
SanDust said:
jkirkebo said:
I usually pay around $1000 for a new phone. But I usually keep them about 5 years too, so it's only $200 per year. My iPhone 3GS is 3,5 years old now, might be replacing it with an iPhone 6 or so.

And I pay ~$35 per month (NOK 199,-) for my plan which includes all the voice, SMS and data I need.
Our problem is that the major carriers don't offer a BYO plan. You pay $75/month and get a subsidized phone every two years or you pay $75/month and buy your own phone at full retail.

Wow, you pay $960 more than me over two year and still have to pay something for the phone (I guess subsidized isn't "free" ?). That's a bad deal if I ever saw one. I'm coming out way ahead paying $1000 for a phone and kepig it 4-5 years while paying $35/month.

I guess the market for used phones is really small ?

I buy a colleagues previous generation iPhone for around $200 and get it unlocked. Then I use it with a T-Mobile PAYG SIM ($0.10 minute calling) on which I typically use anywhere from $2-$10 a month's worth. A contract is absolutely nonsensical for me, with my limited need of a phone.
 
Got an email from the WH today:

It's Time to Legalize Cell Phone Unlocking

By R. David Edelman, Senior Advisor for Internet, Innovation, & Privacy

Thank you for sharing your views on cell phone unlocking with us through your petition on our We the People platform. Last week the White House brought together experts from across government who work on telecommunications, technology, and copyright policy, and we're pleased to offer our response.

The White House agrees with the 114,000+ of you who believe that consumers should be able to unlock their cell phones without risking criminal or other penalties. In fact, we believe the same principle should also apply to tablets, which are increasingly similar to smart phones. And if you have paid for your mobile device, and aren't bound by a service agreement or other obligation, you should be able to use it on another network. It's common sense, crucial for protecting consumer choice, and important for ensuring we continue to have the vibrant, competitive wireless market that delivers innovative products and solid service to meet consumers' needs.

This is particularly important for secondhand or other mobile devices that you might buy or receive as a gift, and want to activate on the wireless network that meets your needs -- even if it isn't the one on which the device was first activated. All consumers deserve that flexibility.

The White House's position detailed in this response builds on some critical thinking done by the President's chief advisory Agency on these matters: the Department of Commerce's National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA). For more context and information on the technical aspects of the issue, you can review the NTIA's letter to the Library of Congress' Register of Copyrights (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/ntia_2012_dmca_letter_final.pdf), voicing strong support for maintaining the previous exception to the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) for cell phone carrier unlocking.

Contrary to the NTIA's recommendation, the Librarian of Congress ruled that phones purchased after January of this year would no longer be exempted from the DMCA. The law gives the Librarian the authority to establish or eliminate exceptions -- and we respect that process. But it is also worth noting the statement the Library of Congress released today on the broader public policy concerns of the issue (http://www.loc.gov/today/pr/2013/13-041.html). Clearly the White House and Library of Congress agree that the DMCA exception process is a rigid and imperfect fit for this telecommunications issue, and we want to ensure this particular challenge for mobile competition is solved.

So where do we go from here?

The Obama Administration would support a range of approaches to addressing this issue, including narrow legislative fixes in the telecommunications space that make it clear: neither criminal law nor technological locks should prevent consumers from switching carriers when they are no longer bound by a service agreement or other obligation.

We also believe the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), with its responsibility for promoting mobile competition and innovation, has an important role to play here. FCC Chairman Genachowski today voiced his concern about mobile phone unlocking (http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2013/db0304/DOC-319250A1.pdf), and to complement his efforts, NTIA will be formally engaging with the FCC as it addresses this urgent issue.

Finally, we would encourage mobile providers to consider what steps they as businesses can take to ensure that their customers can fully reap the benefits and features they expect when purchasing their devices.

We look forward to continuing to work with Congress, the wireless and mobile phone industries, and most importantly you -- the everyday consumers who stand to benefit from this greater flexibility -- to ensure our laws keep pace with changing technology, protect the economic competitiveness that has led to such innovation in this space, and offer consumers the flexibility and freedoms they deserve.
 
I just unlocked my iPhone which I had on a two year contract with AT&T. Painless process. Filled out a form online. A day or so later got an email that I was eligible and could unlock it a day later. The unlocking consists of restoring the iPhone from iTunes (with an optional back up of course). Took 45 minutes because for some reason it did the restore twice. I then got a message that my phone was unlocked.

If you're thinking about getting a new phone, T Mobile is also now selling phones that you can unlock at any time by paying them off. Plus you get a lower price once on its network once you've paid for the phone. The network isn't the best but that should change as they upgrade it. I'd seriously look at them.


Now that my phone is unlocked, I was thinking about getting a combination of Red Pocket talk minutes and the FreedomPop sleeve for the data once FreedomPop was using Sprint's LTE network, which should happen later this year. Probably the bleeding edge but my phone doesn't serve a critical business purpose so I'd be OK if it had some bumps.

Anyway, the point is that if you have a locked phone you may be able to unlock it regardless of what the regulators do. Don't assume you don't have some options.
 
SanDust said:
I just unlocked my iPhone which I had on a two year contract with AT&T. Painless process. Filled out a form online. A day or so later got an email that I was eligible and could unlock it a day later. The unlocking consists of restoring the iPhone from iTunes (with an optional back up of course). Took 45 minutes because for some reason it did the restore twice. I then got a message that my phone was unlocked.

Anyway, the point is that if you have a locked phone you may be able to unlock it regardless of what the regulators do. Don't assume you don't have some options.

Yes, but you're the original owner and AT&T customer. The point of this is that AT&T is not going to unlock the old phone I just bought used from their customer. And I shouldn't have to go cap in hand to them and ask.
 
You don't have to go cap in hand. You just have to fill out a short and simple form. You also don't need to be a current customer. You can be a former customer so long as you can provide an account number or a phone number. This is reasonable since they need to identify the phone to unlock (and it should help to prevent fraud which is endemic for cell phones and cell service).

The other requirements are basic things like the phone can't have been reported stolen.

Personally I wouldn't buy a used iPhone unless it was unlocked before I got it.
 
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