One year in - How has your opinion changed as an owner?

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harrier

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
57
I would love to hear from one year+ owners about how what they thought of the Leaf and why they bought originally versus how they feel now after becoming a real owner. I will post my experience below:

1. Why did you want to go electric/want a leaf
2. What changed?
3. The good, the bad, and the ugly
4. Do you still believe e-cars are going to make it and why?
 
I bought a Nissan Leaf a year ago, and I thought that National Plug-in day was a great time to reflect on the good, bad, and ugly of my first year. So here is why I did it, and what I learned.

I took ownership of my strange-looking grey Leaf 9/23/2011 from a dealership in Northern Marin. I had wanted an electric for 2 years, and I had totalled my Isuzu Trooper, a clear sign from God that I needed to get off my keister.

Why electric?

For one, I am a geek, and I loved the potential in moving from mechanical to software innovation in cars, so I was already a soft target.

But the real reason was that I hated the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and I felt that the only way I could make a difference was to stop buying oil directly. It was not even a climate change issue - I just hated the idea that I was sending money to a region that was using it to buy weapons and decrease stability, requiring me to send more money to fund military operations. Buying both sides' bullets seemed a bad idea.

In one year, I have put 12,000 miles on my Leaf, and probably an equivalent distance in terms of my opinion of electric cars. So here it is:

The good:

1. The Leaf is really fun to drive. When you press the pedal, it responds. It is quick, and just a hoot. It is not quite a Porsche, but for the price, it delivers the fun.
2. I can make phone calls. Surprised you with that one, eh? When you do bluetooth speakerphone in the Leaf, the other caller can actually hear you! Why? Because unlike an ICE, the Leaf is not trying to contain 10s of thousands of explosions every second. No engine noise, no rumble, no vibration = quiet calls = effective use of commuting time.
3. No gas is no gas. No matter how you slice it, I am not subsidizing oil purchases from the middle east, and my money is not paying for bullets that shoot US soldiers. I buy energy from a local power company that is 100% green (yeah, I know nothing is) - no natural gas, no nuke, no oil.
4. No gas is no gas station. OK, occasionally I go to the gas station for a soda. But my experience is that gas stations are basically retailers with atrocious toilets and property that smells of petroleum.
5. NO OIL CHANGES - The only service items are wiper blades/washer and rotated tires. Seriously

The bad:

1. 100 miles is not enough range to really be a car. This is not an item of debate - people with kids cannot replace their car with a Leaf. 200 miles would probably do it. Nissan, deal with this or you are dead - and yes I will pay for a new battery pack.
2. The interior of the Leaf would be a funny joke if it weren't so incredibly bad. My upholstery has three tears and 2 uncleanable stains. Yes, I have kids, but in 28 years of driving I have never torn a seat. I think it is made of some high-strength tissue paper. And don't get me started about the flooring. Hint, there is no rug, just something that looks like a bad moving blanket made of polyester lint.
3. Electronics. Nissan, hire some real software engineers for your dashboard control software. I can't turn the car off with the plug in. Off? There are two clocks on the dash - and you set them separately. The map interface is an embarrassment.
4. Support. This is not a car, it is a smartphone with wheels and brakes. Yet I still have to drive 45 miles to my nearest dealership to update the firmware. Even though there is a perfectly functioning 3G receiver in the car (for sending metrics to Nissan). How about the car just asks me whether I want a firmware update and gets it wireless? Even my home stereo can pull that one off.

The ugly:
I am going to stick to one item here - charging infrastructure. It sucks. Level II chargers that take 4 hours for 1/2 charge are pitiful. And that is really all there is. There is 1 Level III high-speed charger in the San Francisco Peninsula area. One. And it is owned by Volkswagen!

Companies like Blink are installing tons of home chargers, which are nice, but we need probably 100 high speed chargers in the bay area. The Obama administration should revise funding guidelines to give only partial reimbursement for Level II chargers in the future.

I will give you an example. When I drive from my home in Marin, I can easily make it to Palo Alto, CA in about 60 miles of expected range. There are two charging locations, downtown PA, and the Stanford Shopping Center. Each has two chargers. People pull into the garage, plug in, then occupy the spot all day. So a charger gets one, maybe two uses per day, and is idle once the car is charged!

Level III chargers take about 20 minutes, so you can conceivably wait. Or an attendent could valet the e-cars, charging 5-10 times in a workday.

Nissan and Ford, how about you install fast-chargers at all your dealers? That would be a boon to your customers, and would bring them back to the dealerships for ongoing relationships. Think about it.

The bad part of ending with "The Ugly" is that it makes things sound bad, so I will finish with a bit of "why folks who instinctively hate e-cars are just wrong":

1. "They are toys" - One response: Torque - Trains are run on electric motors for a reason: even the simplest electric motors have more torque from 0RPM than the most advanced combustion. And this is a structural advantage. Want a fun car? Torque is a big part.
2. "But you are still burning fuel" - That is just stupid. Almost all of our imported oil goes to fuel for transportation (some for home heating). Fewer gas cars = less oil imports, period. And even if you have the dirtiest energy producing your power, an electric car will benefit from any improvement from regulation or power company investment for years. A gas car will only pollute more the older it gets.
3. "The range is too low" - Yup, 100mi is too low. And you cannot go Thelma and Louise 'cross the country. But unless you are a long-haul trucker, or you have unique needs, you don't need virtually infinite range. By my experience, if I had 200-250 mile range, I would not have any issues. And if you need extended range, the Volt is a great car with very happy owners!
4. "Hydrogen/Natural Gas/Air Power is better" - I don't argue that there should be more options. Don't lose track of the fact that gas, oil, hydrogen, air, and lithium are batteries, not fuel. Evaluate them based on their efficiency, but also on how easy they are to recharge...

Whatever you drive, enjoy it, drive safely, and I hope all of you get a chance sometime soon to drive a cool, electric car. It does work!
 
I'm a bit under one year, but I've logged almost 14,000 miles already, so here goes:

1. Why did you want to go electric/want a leaf

This isn't my first EV. I built one a few years ago. I love everything about EV's, the quiet, the smoothness, the simplicity - but most of all the NOT BUYING/BURNING GASOLINE!!

2. What changed?


Nothing, I still love driving an EV and just wish there were more style options available (sports cars, SUV's etc...)

3. The good, the bad, and the ugly

Good: technology, quiet smooth drive, running on solar power!, everything that's good about an EV
Bad: there are styling issues I'm not crazy about, but that was Nissan's choice. I've changed the ones that bother me the most - new wheels/tires, added sunroof, tint, door moldings
Ugly: none.... really. I don't like the color of the interior, but I've had no problem with it's cleanliness or durability even though I have kids and thought it would get dirty easily. I do plan on putting in leather eventually simply because I prefer it.

4. Do you still believe e-cars are going to make it and why?

Yes, but I think they'll be a niche market for some time. People need to get used to them and realize that they really can have this as a family car (we do... yes, we have kids.. NO PROBLEM with using this as a family car). Ultimately, the smooth, quiet, gas an maintenance free driving will win people over. They'll still have a long hauler, but they'll crave an electric for local driving.
 
1. Why did you want to go electric/want a leaf
Simple: no gas (that's why I wouldn't buy a hybrid either). We need to stop giving money to OPEC and become more energy self-sufficient.

2. What changed?
Nothing; I think the Leaf is the first viable mass-produced EV (and the best V1.0 of anything I've seen)

3. The good, the bad, and the ugly
--good: I like driving again; I love the quiet, smooth acceleration/ride
--bad: range; still need more range in extreme weather conditions
--ugly: pressing "OK" every time you start the car :evil:

4. Do you still believe e-cars are going to make it and why?
Absolutely; it's the best long-term solution to energy conservation/independence. Can you imagine how different our world would be if even 25% of the cars on our roads were BEV? :eek: However, I'm concerned that the constant and vocal complaining regarding battery degradation will have a negative effect on early adopters--even in cases where climate is not an issue. :cry:
 
harrier said:
people with kids cannot replace their car with a Leaf. 200 miles would probably do it. Nissan, deal with this or you are dead - and yes I will pay for a new battery pack.

I would dispute this. However I have not had my Leaf for a year (6 months now). On the flip side we have had our Chevy Volt for 1 year and 1 month now. With just a hair over 11,000 on the odo, and 9,173 mile of those in EV mode people with kids need not fear. I also live in a city with 1 public charging station that is over 50 miles from my driveway and have not managed to strand myself, or even come close. I barely ever even hit LBW, hit VLBW once, and never turtled. In my mind 150 miles would be sufficient, but everyone has different requirements for what they need the car to do. I will agree the Leaf is not for everyone, but people with kids can do it without modifying their routine.
 
14 months of owning a Leaf. I went from loving everything about the car, to almost loving everything about the car. I really baby my battery pack with my charging and driving practices, but I lost a capacity bar at only 6,771 miles.
 
1. Why did you want to go electric/want a leaf

I'm retired and I often drive for fun, entertainment, relaxation. I'm also an environmentalist. So since recreational driving is optional, I wanted a car that I could drive for fun that would have much less environmental impact than the usual 20 mpg ICE car that I had been choosing. We also have solar panels on our roof and we were making over 2,000 kWh per year of power excess to our household usage. I wanted to leverage that free, clean solar power to drive the majority of my recreational and family errand miles.

I really want an electric sports car. My car ownership history includes an early Datsun Z, two RX7s and most recently a BMW 328i Coupe/Sport. I was able to drive the electric MiniE project car and I found it an absolute hoot to drive. I really want something like that, but I can't buy one, or even lease one at this point in time. So I settled for the only BEV available, the LEAF, even though I didn't find the styling or the "family appliance" design attractive.
I am also a technogeek, and I was fascinated enough with the new-ness of the EV powertrain to be strongly attracted to driving an EV.

And I was and still am attracted to the idea of being an early adopter, expressing my individuality and helping to provide information to the car buying market and to Nissan and other manufacturers about what average new adopters learn from living with their first EV.

When I first read about the LEAF, I hoped that we could make our 96 mile r/t commutes to LA in the "100 mile" EV. But I soon learned by further reading and research that I couldn't expect the car to go farther than about 70 miles on the freeway, so I dropped that illusion well before I ordered the car.

2. What changed?
The LEAF became our primary car. Our family moved closer so we no longer had twice-weekly 100 mile r/t commutes to babysit our new grandchild. The five of us fit in the LEAF well for local jaunts out to dinner, etc. In short, the versatility, economy and usablility of the LEAF made it the first choice for most of our driving.

To my shock and surprise, I found that my utility's (SCE) TOU EV rate plan combined with domestic solar PV net metering yielded an electric bill of ZERO, even with charging the LEAF (after midnight), PLUS an excess load of about 1,600 kWh last year due to extra family living with us temporarily. I expected some of our driving to be covered by our solar power, but I didn't expect all of our driving plus our household usage to be completely free of cost.

I found the performance of the LEAF to be surprisingly good at low speeds and accelerating from rest, and I enjoyed the low effort steering and the quietness of the riding experience. I find the handling to be uninspiring, but I slowly began to embrace efficient driving and maximizing energy efficiency.

The early adopter experience became a gratifying social experience, with valued new friendships formed via a local LEAF owner group and a great online support system (MNL).

3. The good, the bad, and the ugly

Good: Rock solid reliability, very useful, flexible interior design, especially roomy and open front cabin, zero cost driving due to the combo of home solar PV and TOU rates for night time charging, support and friendship of fellow early adopters, rewarding technical connection with the car and charging behavior through monitoring all electrical usage and generation via a TED system, driving something very new and different and being able to share my experiences with interested friends and strangers.

Bad: Disappointment in early range loss has taken part of the bloom off the joy of the first year of blissful driving.
Nobody told me to expect measurable driving range reduction after the first 14 months of ownership (actually, "lesseeship", since we leased). I realized that battery capacity would decline, but I had a distinct opinion that I MIGHT see measurable range reduction after between two and three years of driving, but that it would be minimal. Since Nissan predicted 20% range loss after 5 years, I expected no loss for more than 2 years and then perhaps up to 5% loss at the end of my 39 month lease. Instead, I started seeing reduced Gid readings after 13 months and a driving range test showed me that I have lost perhaps 13% of the range of my car when new. I now accept that capacity loss is a given with lithium batteries, but I strongly believe that Nissan should have prepared us for the expected timeline of range loss, and that given the 80% charge recommendation for long battery life and the recommendation to charge the car at the Low Battery Warning, if we follow all of those recommendations, effective driving range to the first battery warning is around 50 miles, even on a new car.

Ugly: I recently realized that I don't find enough driving fulfillment in calm, zenlike high-efficiency driving, and that in succumbing to the zen of the EV, I've allowed myself to ignore the uninspired, tippy handling and numb steering feel of the LEAF. I drove a friend's new Subaru BRZ, a new lightweight, affordable sports car tuned for handling and balance, and I just felt more like my old self, the self that enjoyed the mechanical feel of a well tuned sports car. The LEAF, even with its reasonably good torque and low center of gravity, is still essentially a numb driving appliance. I am remembering that I accepted the LEAF as an approximation toward the sports EV that I really wanted. Some of the newer EVs, notably the BMW ActiveE (which is still a project car, and one that has suffered quite some mechanical foibles) and the Honda Fit EV, are sportier than the LEAF, but still not real sports cars.

The ugly truth is that I find myself thinking longingly about returning to an ICE sports car for my personal driving, and getting a PHEV with good EV range for the family hauler.

Ugly? Yes, but there it is. The EV makers haven't made a serious sports EV under $100k yet, and I want to pay about one third of that price, so you might see me in an ICE again one of these years.

4. Do you still believe e-cars are going to make it and why?

Yes, they must. At some point, gasoline is going to become so expensive and oil so hard to find that the question is not "if" but "when". We need an alternative, and I think that battery development will eventually lead us to EVs with the right combination of price and range to satisfy average drivers. At this point, strong enthusiastic owner support and continued governmental support are needed to get us over the hump of battery prices and range limitations, and the resistance of the general public and counter insurgence of the oil establishment, and we need widespread L2 and QC charging infrastructure to reassure tentative buyers. I can't understand the shockingly bad performance of Ecotality to install a public L2 and QC charging infrastructure in California.

Like some here, I wish that the positive enthusiasm of the early adopters on this forum hadn't turned so completely negative on the range issue. I think that's a bad sign for the viability of the infant EV market. In my opinion, Nissan should have been tuned directly into this forum at the highest levels in their EV group from the very start of deliveries, instead of putting a contracted service bureau in place as a buffer to keep themselves separated from customer concerns. And Nissan should have been highly responsive to the earliest battery capacity concerns and enlisted owners to help find answers and mutually beneficial solutions within the first weeks of issues arising.

Nissan has a lot of lost ground to make up now, a hole that they dug themselves. I think that if they AMAZE and DELIGHT affected owners very soon, that there is enough goodwill towards the LEAF as the first mass market EV that much of the rancor among current owners will diminish. As it stands, though, we have irate and angry LEAF owners in Washington State that want rid of their LEAFs, even though they have no individual issues with their cars. THAT is a bad PR problem,
 
harrier said:
I would love to hear from one year+ owners about how what they thought of the Leaf and why they bought originally versus how they feel now after becoming a real owner. I will post my experience below:

1. Why did you want to go electric/want a leaf

techie me, clean me, cheap me, cool me

2. What changed?

spending approximately 7½ minutes a month refueling the LEAF (The Prius averages 40 minutes a month)

3. The good, the bad, and the ugly

The good is the LEAF. it has done more than i expected and unlike most here it seems, i felt i had reasonable expectations. When Nissan released their mileage charts, i the worst as being 68 miles (at least for my situation) then removed 20 % and saw 54 miles left. I had already decided i needed 50 miles of range long term. I figured emerging public charging would boost me. But still hesitant so I leased. so i will either have a great price to buy in 16 months or will get the latest status quo which I really dont see me being able to afford that having had a major cash flow change. MUCH higher bills and somewhat lower income.

The Bad; the LEAF, or at least other people's perception of it. its a car on an island. hard to justify something like that. my attitude is different but because of where i live. i feel that EVs get very little support here but that level of support appears to be much higher than most other places in the country

the Ugly; Support. I am in an area lucky enough to be part of two different EV development programs. unfortunately the total sum of the monies in both programs combined does not even equate to a single weeks worth of subsidies enjoyed by the industry with the greatest profit in the history of Man; Big Oil


4. Do you still believe e-cars are going to make it and why?

yes, because they are so right in so many ways. But forces against the technology will slow it down perhaps for decades. I hope its only a few years. It should be no more than 2-3 years but i am afraid unfavorable political climates, too many PACs funded by coal, gas and oil, etc. will have their way for way too many more years first
 
1. Why did you want to go electric/want a leaf

I think electric cars are cool and high tech. I'm a nerd so I like high tech gadgets and the Leaf is the ultimate example. Gasoline vehicles really seem almost stone age to me. Left over tech from the industrial revolution. To me going from a gasoline car to an EV was analogous to going from a CRT television to a plasma.

2. What changed?

My perception of public opinion surrounding EVs changed. While I was sitting on the waiting list for my Leaf, I thought everybody in the world thought an EV was a good idea. I would have never expected this huge backlash of anti-ev groups or turning EVs into political fights.

3. The good, the bad, and the ugly

I won't bother with the good, everybody on here knows what is good about the Leaf. The bad would be:
  • The quality of the interior fabrics is below par. I know they wanted to use recycled bottles, but I'm not that much of an green nut. I'd rather than have used better materials.
  • The paint scratches way too easily.
  • The range is less than was originally promised. In fact Nissan is still touting 100 miles when it is now obvious this is not realistic.

4. Do you still believe e-cars are going to make it and why?
Yes, I still believe it is inevitable. After all, oil is a finite resource that is going to run out. The only real question is when. Every time gasoline prices rise, the electric car inches that much closer to mainstream adoption. The only question is where that threshold is, and when will we reach it? Will it even be in my lifetime? I'm not sure. But I AM sure that electric vehicles are the future.
 
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