Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

[fooljoe]

My experience mostly mirrors doug401's. I have both, but I prefer to drive the Rav and stick my wife with the Leaf. It definitely has its "quirks" but it's still an amazing deal for the price. And it was $27,500 for me (plus tax.)

You just can't say enough about having a battery that's twice as big. With my Leaf I can make it to work and back (50 mi round trip) but barely have enough for going around town / out to lunch / etc. With the Rav I've made it to work and back twice on one 80% charge (because I had to as the timer failed to kick in...) with plenty to spare. Plus I've taken a couple weekend trips to places 100+ miles away, something I'd never dream of with the Leaf.

And as cwerdna pointed out, if you're turned off by Tony's experience with the Rav, don't be so quick to assume the Model S will be much better. Most of Tony's problems have been due to Tesla hardware...

 

[cwerdna]

Sounds like the RAV4 is not for us.

That's too bad. I own both and I love both. But I drive the Rav because it an incredible machine.
...
IMHO, the Leaf has better brakes, handles better, is quieter, has DC3, and is more economical/cheaper. It owns its market share and there is nothing else like it in its class.

The interesting part is that at the bottom of http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/testing-electric-vehicles-in-the-real-world.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the Rav4 EV had slightly shorter braking distances than the Leaf while it also got thru the slalom faster and did a bit better on the skidpad than the Leaf.

However, what you note may be what you perceive based upon the feel and feedback of brakes, steering, and vehicles in general. It really is too bad that the Leaf doesn't have greater battery capacity nor is there a car w/range like the Rav4 EV priced in between the Leaf and Rav4 EV.

 

[doug401]

Sounds like the RAV4 is not for us.

That's too bad. I own both and I love both. But I drive the Rav because it an incredible machine.
...
IMHO, the Leaf has better brakes, handles better, is quieter, has DC3, and is more economical/cheaper. It owns its market share and there is nothing else like it in its class.

The interesting part is that at the bottom of http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/testing-electric-vehicles-in-the-real-world.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the Rav4 EV had slightly shorter braking distances than the Leaf while it also got thru the slalom faster and did a bit better on the skidpad than the Leaf.

However, what you note may be what you perceive based upon the feel and feedback of brakes, steering, and vehicles in general. It really is too bad that the Leaf doesn't have greater battery capacity nor is there a car w/range like the Rav4 EV priced in between the Leaf and Rav4 EV.

Yes.. Your right, not necessarily better brakes, but firmer. I like the solid brake peddle feel of the Leaf.

 

[occ]

We have both LEAF and Rav4EV as well, both owned. Both of our commute is <40 miles so both will serve us long after our payments are done, even with battery degradation.

So far absolutely no issue at all with the LEAF (I think our LEAF battery degraded 20%, which is more than most in our Southern California area, but still well within either of our commuting range). We knew battery will degrade eventually coming in, so it was expected and no surprise.

Our Rave4EV have had the motor/tranny assembly replaced because of abnormal noise at freeway speed. It was difficult to get Toyota to admit to the noise because it was such a new and unique vehicle, but in the end, Toyota service is first rate....and our Rav4EV is now much quieter. That's it, no other issues (for the last 4 mos...knock on wood!).

If the LEAF had 40kwh battery like the Rav, and cost the same ($35K after ALL incentives, rebates, taxes, etc), we would easily prefer the LEAF, for it's smooth, refined, efficient, quiet and serene ride, and this on top of the fact that it's the only "large" auto manufacturer dedicated to EV. When time to replace the battery, more likely Nissan will have an option, or 3rd party since many many more LEAFs are out there to create an after market option for battery replacement.

The Rav4EV is well made, as any Toyota is, but the main reason for us is the 120-140 miles range on a charge. It's roominess is excellent, but 2ndary. And for us, the power and acceleration is just icing on the cake. Without any other choice (Tesla is not a choice for us right now), the Rav4EV is hands-down the most useful of all EVs at ~$35K price!

We love both, and will keep it for a very long time. However, we're looking forward to the $30-40K Tesla with Supercharger and battery swap that will forever kill the last reason to ever have to drive a gasser again.

 

[arnolddeleon]

We also own a 2011 LEAF and 2012 RAV4-EV, both owned. The 2012 RAV4-EV replaced a 2002 RAV4-EV that we drove over 123,000 on the original set of NiMh batteries.

I got the 2012 RAV4 for a single reason, significantly bigger battery. There was only other option for bigger battery, a Tesla model S and it was just not in the cards (pocketbook). The zero percent financing and discounts were essential. With the state rebate and tax credit the car is "free" for the first year and half or so. Note that there were no "gas savings" for me to help w/ cost. I was already driving electric. I was expecting to nurse the 2002 RAV4-EV for another year or so but I thought the deal that was being offered compelling enough.

I was comfortable betting on an orphan Toyota having driven the 2002 RAV4-EV for over 10 years. I was also pretty happy w/ drivetrain being supplied by Tesla.

We have owned the LEAF for 2 years now and I've been pretty happy with it. My biggest wish for it is a bigger battery which led me to the 2012 RAV4--EV which I've had for a little more than a month. The LEAF is definitely more efficient and my wife prefers driving it. Within the first week of owning the 2012 RAV4-EV I did an over 110 mile circuit without charging. Something I would not have attempted w/ the LEAF.

There are little buglets (like the whole charge scheduling thing) but so far I've been pretty happy with it. The 2012 was significantly bigger than than 2002 (I needed to clear more room in the garage). My biggest gripe is the significantly poorer efficiency. The peppy performance is a pleasant surprise (I'm not a performance driver). If there was LEAF with a bigger battery at a comparable price point I would have considered it seriously (A bigger car was not a requirement for me). OTOH I've put the extra cargo space to good use already.

arnold

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Being critical cuts two ways. Tony is very vocal about issues he is having but in the right way, with facts, details, etc. I see too many people being critical good or bad with generalizations, impressions with no supporting details or other subjective comments. "rides rough" seats not comfortable, etc. is useless to me.

Its great that most find the RAV to be a great car and after driving Doug's, I have to agree. it was quiet smooth and powerful and the range is awesome. throw a QC in there (did you hear Blink is putting in 9 more including two on the Olympic Peninsula?) and it would be a no brainer decision.

I also think part of Tony's "issues" is his pilot training. He pushes his vehicles so he can know his limits. Most of us don't even use half our vehicle's capability so we are really clueless.

its like a guy who drives a regular commute and climbs this hill. he does just fine because his car can do 100 mph on the top end, but he climbs the hill at 65 mph so he could care less about his top speed so then 10 years down the line, the car is getting old and he notices that the car does not climb the hill as it once could but what he did not know is over the years, the car can now only do 85 mph top speed. So now he is looking at higher than expected maintenance for something he is unaware of.

Tony shines the light into the dark corners so we don't have to. We may never get to the extremes he lives in, but the information he provides is still invaluable

 

[derkraut]

Being critical cuts two ways. Tony is very vocal about issues he is having but in the right way, with facts, details, etc. I see too many people being critical good or bad with generalizations, impressions with no supporting details or other subjective comments. "rides rough" seats not comfortable, etc. is useless to me.

Its great that most find the RAV to be a great car and after driving Doug's, I have to agree. it was quiet smooth and powerful and the range is awesome. throw a QC in there (did you hear Blink is putting in 9 more including two on the Olympic Peninsula?) and it would be a no brainer decision.

I also think part of Tony's "issues" is his pilot training. He pushes his vehicles so he can know his limits. Most of us don't even use half our vehicle's capability so we are really clueless.

its like a guy who drives a regular commute and climbs this hill. he does just fine because his car can do 100 mph on the top end, but he climbs the hill at 65 mph so he could care less about his top speed so then 10 years down the line, the car is getting old and he notices that the car does not climb the hill as it once could but what he did not know is over the years, the car can now only do 85 mph top speed. So now he is looking at higher than expected maintenance for something he is unaware of.

Tony shines the light into the dark corners so we don't have to. We may never get to the extremes he lives in, but the information he provides is still invaluable

Well stated Dave; My sentiments exactly.

 

[qwk]

I was in the area and decided to finally drive the Rav4 EV so I could compare it to my model S, and maybe see what the drivetrain noise was that some Rav 4 EV owners were talking about. In case anyone is interested, the car I drove was blue, vin#1656 at Roseville Toyota.

Since I was comparing this to the Model S, I put it into sport mode right away, and left it there. The Rav4 EV has very good power, especially from a dead stop(A bit more low end than a V6 version, nowhere near a Model S). There is a lot of torque steer, but overall the car drives great. The GOM wasn't as bad as I had expected (not as good as the rated range on a model S, but certainly much better than the Leaf's). After almost 6k miles of driving a Tesla, the regen on the brake was downright unbearable. Putting the shifter in B mode helped some, but it was still very weak. For me, one pedal driving is the only way to go.

Overall, the Rav 4 EV is a GREAT vehicle, especially at the prices that we have seen. The particular car I drove had a very quiet drivetrain, which seemed even quieter than my model S(even at 60-65 mph). Once Toyota/Tesla get the Gateway ECU issue sorted out, I may be in the market for one of these, as it is much more useful in a gravel road/ton of snow scenario that I face. It's too bad that Toyota doesn't realize that this conversion(cobbled up in less than 2 years)drives better than any of their ICE vehicles. Pretty sad really.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Just drove over 3000 miles in the Rav4 EV in less than two weeks!! 500 more to go, July 5-7, 2013 during last two Stages of BC2BC-2013.

 

[cwerdna]

Has the gearbox on this replacement gotten noisier, like your original? Have the gateway ECU problem symptoms cropped up during your drive?

I was worried that perhaps you might have trouble making it up north or back. Would be rather embarrassing for the BC2BC organizer to have car trouble...

 

[TonyWilliams]

Has the gearbox on this replacement gotten noisier, like your original? Have the gateway ECU problem symptoms cropped up during your drive?

I was worried that perhaps you might have trouble making it up north or back. Would be rather embarrassing for the BC2BC organizer to have car trouble...

Well, I know the issues as well as anybody, so I don't use charge timers at all. There's no acceleration to speak of, and I always travel below 65mph. No gear box hum.

My Gateway was replaced; no problems. Heater wasn't turned on, so I don't know if it stills works. So far, so good, but its not much of an endurance test!!!!

 

[jspearman]

Around 6K miles on our RAV4 so far and no issues, fingers crossed.

 

[TonyWilliams]

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1691#p1691" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There is only one option: Color

Blizzard Pearl white (about $300 extra, it's what I have)
Blue (most popular color)
Silver (least popular color)

That's it. Simple...


http://www.buyatoyota.com/Specials/SpecialOffers.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Offer Ends 9/3/2013:


CAVEAT EMPTOR: known dealer scam is to sell you a "used" car and keep the tax credits and rebates.


****************

CURRENT ADVERTISED PURCHASE OFFER

No stated Toyota discount, but typically $7500

0.0% APR for 36 months, 0.0% APR for 48 months or 0.0% APR for 60 months. Includes ToyotaCare

0.0% APR includes 36 monthly payments of $27.78 per $1000 borrowed. 0.0% APR includes 48 monthly payments of $20.83 per $1000 borrowed. 0.0% APR includes 60 monthly payments of $16.67 per $1000 borrowed.

For example 10% down. Down payment varies with credit. Available through Toyota Financial Services to qualified Tier 1 + (plus), Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3 credit customers. Available on a new 2013 RAV4EV purchased out of dealer stock by midnight 9/3/2013. Offers cannot be combined. See your Toyota dealer for details.


CURRENT ADVERTISED LEASE OFFER

$299 a month plus tax for 36 months, limited miles
$329 a month plus tax for 36 months, Special Payment for Unlimited Mileage
$3,499 Drive-off
After $15,400 Lease Cash is applied NOTE: last month this was called "$15,400 TFS Subvention Lease Cash" Apparently, you get to pay sales tax on the discount!!! CAVEAT EMPTOR
Sales tax not included and is calculated (estimated at $1,600) before lease cash is applied. Includes ToyotaCare

$7500 federal credit (IRS form 8936) applies to new cars only with purchase only, not on a lease, and $2,500 California state rebate to for new cars only. Apply here (your state or province may also have incentives for out of state sales). CAVEAT EMPTOR: known dealer scam is to sell you a "used" car and keep the tax credit.

Lease Cash must be applied to lease down payment. Lease available only through Toyota Financial Services to qualified buyers. Offer excludes applicable taxes and fees. No security deposit required. You pay excess wear and tear, plus $.15 per mile over 36,000 miles at lease end. Lease payments may vary from dealer to dealer based on final negotiated price and equipment chosen. Lease offer is example only and applies only to new 2013 Toyota RAV4 EV Model #4480. Example vehicle may not be available at all dealers. Must be leased from new car dealer stock by midnight 09/03/2013. Lease example requires dealer contribution. Individual dealer lease terms may vary.

********************

$7500 federal tax credit (IRS form 8936)is on a purchase ONLY !!! CAVEAT EMPTOR: Toyota does not pass this credit to you on a lease - CHANGE FOR JULY 2013, they have begun offering you the $7500 fed tax credit in the lease.

$2500 California state credit does apply to lease or purchase for California only. Apply here. Your state or province may also have incentives.

CAVEAT EMPTOR: known dealer scam is to sell you a "used" car and keep the tax credits and rebates.

***************************

The only differences between a 2013 and 2012 model year is the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) has a "D" the replaces the "C" in the 8th digit from the right. The 2014 will likely have an E. You will find the VIN through the front window, looking from the outside on the driver's side, at the bottom.

I do not expect that there will be many 2012 model year cars still available. The 2014 model year will be the last of the run after 2600 total are produced.

*************************

Sales tax - on an "in-state" purchase, you pay the applicable tax for your county/city. For an in state lease, you pay a "use tax" on the monthly payment. For out-of-state, you pay nothing to California with a proper Bill of Laden from a shipping company. DO NOT TAKE DELIVERY IN CALIFORNIA unless you want to pay our taxes!!! You will pay applicable taxes in your out-of-state jurisdiction. There's a whole thread devoted to out-of-state purchases and leases.

**************************

TYPICAL PURCHASE deals for NEW (not used) should look like this:

New Rav4 EV (not used)

$2000 - $4000 typical dealers discounts (the dealers are getting 2% "holdback", and the salesperson gets $1000 from Toyota USA and the sales manager get $500... don't worry about hammering them on a good deal)


$50,870 Retail MSRP (inc floor mats and destination, add $395 for "Blizzard Pearl" white paint)


($2,000-$4,000) Dealer Discount

($7,500 - $10,000) Toyota Cash with 0.0% interest for up to 60 months

$80 doc fee

$36,870 - $41,370 net cost plus tax and license. This is what you will pay in the dealership without tax or shipping from California to your out of state location

$5,000 sales tax and license plates in California. Your state may vary wildly

$500 - $1,000 shipping to you from the dealer, if applicable


Then:

($7,500) Fed Tax Credit (you will get this with your taxes with IRS form 8936)
($2,500) CA State Rebate (you will get this when you mail in a form), Apply here.


$26,870 - $31,370 Total Net Cost plus tax/license/shipping to you, if applicable



TYPICAL LEASE

From Dianne @ Carson Toyota:

$0 down, $444 monthly, 36 months, $19k-ish residual. For a few bucks more, you get UNLIMITED miles.


**************************

USED Rav4 EV's:

If you buy used, even with almost zero miles on the car, you not only lose the tax credits and rebates, you also lose the ability to "Lemon Law" the car should it come to that.

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NOTE TO ALL OUT OF STATE BUYERS:

I recommend having a local California current Rav4 EV owner test drive your car at the dealer before shipping to you out of state. My particular car had excessive motor noise from new, so it will be easy to identify the same situation before the car is shipped to you.

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COMMON DEALERSHIP DELIVERY ISSUES:


IF YOUR CAR IS DELIVERED WITHOUT FUNCTIONING INTERIOR LIGHTS:

A pin is located in the engine bay passenger side fuse box to activate the lights. Inside that fuse box, there is a white "fuse" without any number and that is the "pin". Under the fuse cover, there is a location labeled "short". Put the "pin" into the "short" slot and interior function like light, garage door opener, external door handle switch will be activated.


IF YOUR CAR IS DELIVERED WITH A REGISTRATION FOR A OIL BURNING CAR INSTEAD OF AN ELECTRIC CAR:

Make sure your dealership ticked the correct box for "motive power" on the registration. If they incorrectly entered "gas", you'll need to get it corrected. In California, the DMV requests that the dealership complete Sections G & H of form "Reg 256". For section G, the sample response given was:

"Due to a clerical error on the Report of Sale, the motive power was entered as "gas (G)", when the actual motive power for this vehicle is "100% electric (E)". Please correct. No fraud intended."

The dealer then signs and dates Section H.


IF YOU WANT YOUR CAR IS DELIVERED WITH SPECIFIC SETTINGS:

Have you dealer set the reverse beeper that will blast you out of the car in reverse to a single beep. I highly recommend writing this in the contract, particularly for an out of state sale. You will not like this distracting beeping in reverse. Also, I recommend setting the auto door locks to whatever setting you want prior to delivery.

****************************

Apply for your California HOV lane stickers (less than $20) after you have a license plate issued to your car:

Apply here

 

[mkjayakumar]

This is great piece of information, and thanks Tony for posting it. The $444 with $0 down is even cheaper than the payment I am making for my Leaf today. Just can't wait to get out of it.

Of course the main issue of servicing here in DFW area is still not resolved, unless I take a leap of faith.

 

[TonyWilliams]

This is great piece of information, and thanks Tony for posting it. The $444 with $0 down is even cheaper than the payment I am making for my Leaf today. Just can't wait to get out of it.

Of course the main issue of servicing here in DFW area is still not resolved, unless I take a leap of faith.

Absolute worst case, you have to ship it to either California, or a Toyota dealer elsewhere that can handle it. Or offer to "tip" your local dealer to get Plug In Prius / Rav4 EV certified.

 

[Valdemar]

What is the real life mi/kWh number on the RAV4 EV in a mixed cycle?

 

[TonyWilliams]

What is the real life mi/kWh number on the RAV4 EV in a mixed cycle?

If you mean the EPA 5 cycle test?

2.7 miles/kWh * 41.8kWh = 113 miles @ 100% charge, 92 miles @ 80% charge for an EPA 103 average [(113 + 92) / 2 = 103]


At 65mph on level ground:

3.4 miles/kWh * 41.8kWh = 142 miles range autonomy

 

[Valdemar]

What is the real life mi/kWh number on the RAV4 EV in a mixed cycle?

If you mean the EPA 5 cycle test?

2.7 miles/kWh * 41.8kWh = 113 miles @ 100% charge, 92 miles @ 80% charge for an EPA 103 average [(113 + 92) / 2 = 103]


At 65mph on level ground:

3.4 miles/kWh * 41.8kWh = 142 miles range autonomy

Probably, not so much the autonomy but the actual economy, just trying to understand how much less efficient it is than the Leaf, and subsequently how much more $ will it be per month for electricity for my commute. Sounds like about 20 to 30% less efficient, is that about right?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Probably, not so much the autonomy but the actual economy, just trying to understand how much less efficient it is than the Leaf, and subsequently how much more $ will it be per month for electricity for my commute. Sounds like about 20 to 30% less efficient, is that about right?

If the price of electricity is the what's holding you back, I can probably loan you the $10 monthly difference:


Rav4 EV monthly 1000 miles / 3 miles per kWh = 333 kWh * $0.12 = $40

LEAF EV monthly 1000 miles / 4 miles per kWh = 250 kWh * $0.12 = $30

 

[Valdemar]

Probably, not so much the autonomy but the actual economy, just trying to understand how much less efficient it is than the Leaf, and subsequently how much more $ will it be per month for electricity for my commute. Sounds like about 20 to 30% less efficient, is that about right?

If the price of electricity is the what's holding you back, I can probably loan you the $10 monthly difference:


Rav4 EV monthly 1000 miles / 3 miles per kWh = 333 kWh * $0.12 = $40

LEAF EV monthly 1000 miles / 4 miles per kWh = 250 kWh * $0.12 = $30

I'm just curious. My commute is more like 1500 miles/mo, and soon will be 2000, so it will be more than $10. Also, on my Leaf I'm averaging 4.6 on the dashboard. But I get your point. Is there any information how much more they want for the lease with unlimited mileage?