Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

[reeler]

Did you ever drive my car? I got the feedback right through the steering wheel, and it got louder and louder. If you've determined what's wrong (or apparently not wrong) through some ESP exercise, congrats. Clearly, the actual trained mechanics who actually work on my car can't know anything.

I listened to your video recording of the noise from your bad motor and it sounds about like mine. It is hard to capture magnitude in those conditions so maybe yours is defective. I like how mine sounds (like your video). I would characterize it is twice as loud as the Leaf, but half as loud as the Tesla Roadster. In any event way quieter than any ICE car.

Maybe you do have two bad motors in a row or something undiagnosed that was not fixed with the fresh motor. I will be watching the thread on that.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Did you ever drive my car? I got the feedback right through the steering wheel, and it got louder and louder. If you've determined what's wrong (or apparently not wrong) through some ESP exercise, congrats. Clearly, the actual trained mechanics who actually work on my car can't know anything.

I listened to your video recording of the noise from your bad motor and it sounds about like mine. It is hard to capture magnitude in those conditions so maybe yours is defective. I like how mine sounds (like your video). I would characterize it is twice as loud as the Leaf, but half as loud as the Tesla Roadster. In any event way quieter than any ICE car.

Maybe you do have two bad motors in a row or something undiagnosed that was not fixed with the fresh motor. I will be watching the thread on that.

would have to think the fact that Toyota replaced it means there was an issue. also thinking the availability of the parts kinda makes me think that Toyota "knew" that it might be an issue.

 

[srl99]

I think some are using this fact to get the motor replaced, but I think that may be an over reaction.

Toyota / Tesla are just handing out new motors for "our" (well, me, actually) over reaction? Really?

Did you ever drive my car? I got the feedback right through the steering wheel, and it got louder and louder. If you've determined what's wrong (or apparently not wrong) through some ESP exercise, congrats. Clearly, the actual trained mechanics who actually work on my car can't know anything.

I guess the Model S cars with the same problem are also delusional and over reacting.

Any owners not towing a box trailer having drive train problems?

 

[doug401]

Has any out of state owners of RAV4EV had any issues so far ?

having been kinda waiting for an issue just to see how much of a hassle it would be for the out of state (CA) owner to deal with any issues but nothing so far. only really have occasional FB contact with 2 owners in WA and not even sure how forth coming they would be about issues. neither was ever a very active participant

Nice Dave... Forth coming?
2000 miles and the only issue I've had is the charge port door didn't open one time when the lever was pulled, and my Blink EVSE has orange screened twice and needed to be power cycled. But blame that one on Blink. It has never done that with my Leaf. I don't post on FB since it's mostly mindless dribble, only scan it for new info. On another note: you may be interested to know that the charge cord on the Aeroviroment DC3 in Burlington has been swapped out. It is now longer reaching all three spaces. Yes... I know what you are thinking, but I am still a Leaf owner too.

Also... If you haven't been following the Rav4 ev forum, I have a commitment from Rodland Toyota for my service.

This is kinda neat from yesterday up in Oak Harbor
http://www.pbase.com/doug401/image/150415389" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and this
http://www.pbase.com/doug401/image/150386709" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dave,
I'd be happy to drive to Oly so you can test drive the Rav4 ev. Of course I would have to use your L2 evse for 2 hours to make the 190 mile round trip

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Has any out of state owners of RAV4EV had any issues so far ?

having been kinda waiting for an issue just to see how much of a hassle it would be for the out of state (CA) owner to deal with any issues but nothing so far. only really have occasional FB contact with 2 owners in WA and not even sure how forth coming they would be about issues. neither was ever a very active participant

Nice Dave... Forth coming?
2000 miles and the only issue I've had is the charge port door didn't open one time when the lever was pulled, and my Blink EVSE has orange screened twice and needed to be power cycled. But blame that one on Blink. It has never done that with my Leaf. I don't post on FB since it's mostly mindless dribble, only scan it for new info. On another note: you may be interested to know that the charge cord on the Aeroviroment DC3 in Burlington has been swapped out. It is now longer reaching all three spaces. Yes... I know what you are thinking, but I am still a Leaf owner too.

Also... If you haven't been following the Rav4 ev forum, I have a commitment from Rodland Toyota for my service.

This is kinda neat from yesterday up in Oak Harbor
http://www.pbase.com/doug401/image/150415389" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and this
http://www.pbase.com/doug401/image/150386709" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dave,
I'd be happy to drive to Oly so you can test drive the Rav4 ev. Of course I would have to use your L2 evse for 2 hours to make the 190 mile round trip

isn't forthcoming a word? oh well :? its great news that you have a Toyota Dealer here willing to service your RAV!

what are your general impressions of the car? does it feel well built or thrown together? I have to say its waaay bigger than I really want but if it had Chademo, it would have been very tough to resist especially at the prices they are offering it at now.

as far as the AV cord, ya saw that. would be nice to have a dual head station so I can queue up my car and maybe have time to run in and grab something... I heard the cord cost like $3100??

 

[GRA]

Official Rant:

No spare tire is just DUMB, too, but that seems to be the EV norm.

Tony, have you tried standing a tire up along one of the sides in the rear, between the rear gate and the shock or strut tower? My '88 Subaru came with a compact spare under the hood, but I bought a full-size spare for trips into the back of beyond and lashed it in place vertically along one side wall (it wouldn't fit on the other side owing to a difference in the contour of the shock tower cover). It wasn't particularly elegant, but it worked and minimized the amount of cargo space used. Might be worth seeing if one will fit in yours, assuming the RAV4 EV still has cargo lash points to hold it in place. Actually, on long trips I usually had so much gear back there that it was wedged in place, but I prefer to keep anything that heavy tethered in case of accident.

 

[doug401]

Yes... forthcoming is a word, but as for me, aka Irv Muckler from your blog, I will always be forthcoming with issues with my Rav... Even if I get eaten alive on the Leaf forum. You know how forums are when there is a problem. The volume get turned up was too high for every little thing.

The fit and finish are Toyota, and exactly what you'd expect. That is "2012 Toyota quality", not 1990 MR2 or Camry quality, but really just Prius level quality. Definitely not thrown together. Although Tesla has some issues to address, I believe they will come through. Too much on the line for them not too. But they may need to get pushed off their lofty pedestal and have a reality check. It IS a big vehicle, and bigger than I'm used to. But just like my old Prius, I can carry 10 ft lengths of lumber inside. :lol:

I wasn't kidding about letting you test drive in Oly. Just let me know. Another guy "Early Adopter" and his Tesla are coming over today for a spin. He wants to replace his wife's BMW X5.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Yes... forthcoming is a word, but as for me, aka Irv Muckler from your blog, I will always be forthcoming with issues with my Rav... Even if I get eaten alive on the Leaf forum. You know how forums are when there is a problem. The volume get turned up was too high for every little thing.

The fit and finish are Toyota, and exactly what you'd expect. That is "2012 Toyota quality", not 1990 MR2 or Camry quality, but really just Prius level quality. Definitely not thrown together. Although Tesla has some issues to address, I believe they will come through. Too much on the line for them not too. But they may need to get pushed off their lofty pedestal and have a reality check. It IS a big vehicle, and bigger than I'm used to. But just like my old Prius, I can carry 10 ft lengths of lumber inside. :lol:

I wasn't kidding about letting you test drive in Oly. Just let me know. Another guy "Early Adopter" and his Tesla are coming over today for a spin. He wants to replace his wife's BMW X5.

well I am actually one of the people who think the Prius is a well made car both inside and out. its not a luxury car but it never pretended to be and its not really all that expensive especially when you consider its ability to perform.

do you feel that the partnership between Tesla and Toyota might not have been in Toyota's best interest?

 

[TEG]

...Any owners not towing a box trailer having drive train problems?

http://www.toyota.com/content/ebrochure/2013/rav4ev_ebrochure.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"...RAV4 EV is not recommended for towing or off-road driving..."

 

[doug401]

well I am actually one of the people who think the Prius is a well made car both inside and out. its not a luxury car but it never pretended to be and its not really all that expensive especially when you consider its ability to perform.

do you feel that the partnership between Tesla and Toyota might not have been in Toyota's best interest?

Yes... I agree about Prius quality. What I loved most about the Prius was the "minimalist" dash design. The Rav4 ev is also very understated, which I love. The partnership was genius for both Toyota and Tesla. "Keep your enemies closer" the saying goes. For Toyota, they did win back my business. And Tesla, becoming a major parts supplier for Mercedes and Toyota... wow. I wonder about the lack of Tesla signage on the Rav. Was it too threatening for Toyota, or too expensive... or did Tesla not want to lower itself to the Rav's common man roots? I honestly believe the car is WAY better than either company is comfortable with. And for only $4000 more than a SL Leaf.

I may have sold another Rav yesterday. "early adopter" and his wife seemed to love driving it... I held the black Tesla as collateral. When model S drivers are buying Rav4 ev's for their second car, look out car manufacturers.... it's a brave new world out there.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Any owners not towing a box trailer having drive train problems?

Are you saying the motor isn't up to pulling a trailer? It is up to 440 for pounds of torque in a Model S P85, but not up to 273 ft/lbs in a Rav4 EV pulling a trailer?

Is that it?

Just for the benefit of others (because this poster seems to "know" that my pulling trailers has caused problems), trailer towing rarely has anything to do with the motor for light duty applications. It's a braking, suspension, and drivetrain cooling issue.

The Rav4 EV uses the same brakes as the oil burning 2012 Rav4. It doesn't need extensive cooling for the drivetrain, as there aren't huge amounts of waste energy to dissipate as heat. There is no transmission that requires removal of excess heat (no slipping clutches, bands, or torque converters). The current gear reduction box that failed in my Rav4 EV (4050 pound car) is the same one that is used with a 4600 pound Model S with 440 foot pounds of torque.

The oil burner Rav4 is rated for 3500 pounds trailer towing, and uses the same trailer hitch receiver mounts as the Rav4 EV.

The Rav4 EV does have one unique feature not found in a piston oil burning tow vehicle, and that is lack of engine braking. That is HUGE!!! I recommend trailer brakes on any EV towing anything bigger that a lawn mower trailer. You will overheat the brakes on long downhill roads with a trailer load pushing you and the EV battery either cold or near 100% of capacity.

PLEASE PLEASE use trailer brakes and don't become a statistic. If the brakes overheat, the car will "run away" with you, possibly to your grave. It's not a joke, and if you don't understand how that can kill you, please don't tow anything.

Flat landers in Denmark, Kansas, or other places that don't know what a hill is, you should be safe without trailer brakes below 3500 pounds trailer weight.

 

[TomT]

Perhaps it has more to do with the constant increased load on it... As I recall, they do specifically recommend against trailer towing...

Any owners not towing a box trailer having drive train problems?

Are you saying the motor isn't up to pulling a trailer? It is up to 440 for pounds of torque in a Model S P85, but not 273 ft/lbs in a Rav4 EV.
Is that it?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Perhaps it has more to do with the constant increased load on it... As I recall, they do specifically recommend against trailer towing...

Any owners not towing a box trailer having drive train problems?

Are you saying the motor isn't up to pulling a trailer? It is up to 440 for pounds of torque in a Model S P85, but not 273 ft/lbs in a Rav4 EV.
Is that it?

that does not really compute. that might imply that they took extra precautions to keep the batteries nice and cool but ignored the motor? or do they make you sign a waiver that you are not allowed to accelerate up hills (FYI; my secret little thrill driving the LEAF where economy is completely tossed out the window is showing off the LEAF's acceleration while stopped on the side of the many hills in the Puget Sound region )

besides not aware of a "wear" issue for torque on an electric motor as long as its kept cool. the mechanical portion of the drive train maybe but the motor itself?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Perhaps it has more to do with the constant increased load on it... As I recall, they do specifically recommend against trailer towing...

Any owners not towing a box trailer having drive train problems?

Are you saying the motor isn't up to pulling a trailer? It is up to 440 for pounds of torque in a Model S P85, but not 273 ft/lbs in a Rav4 EV.
Is that it?

Well, if the Tesla Model S/X drive train isn't up to the job, why would they replace it? They could just deny my warranty claim. I make no secret that I have towed with my car, and the tow hitch is on the car now at the dealership for repairs. I have posted pictures all over the Internet with it pulling all kinds of things. It tows well, but you must be mindful of braking issues I posted above.

The car was never tested by Toyota for trailer towing, and is "not recommended". How could they recommend anything they have no data on? By the way, towing is not "prohibited". To those of you who need permission to do things, yes, that phrase will mean something different to you. If they could "prove" that trailer pulling caused a problem (even if trailer towing were tested and approved), they could and should deny the warranty claim. They didn't.

But, let's bring the issue down to reality; there are "a bunch" of whining gear boxes in both Model S and Rav4 EV. I personally know of several motors that have been replaced that have never towed a trailer.

 

[TomT]

Design defect? Manufacturing problem? Perhaps both?

But, let's bring the issue down to reality; there are "a bunch" of whining gear boxes in both Model S and Rav4 EV. I personally know of several motors that have been replaced that have never towed a trailer.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Design defect? Manufacturing problem? Perhaps both?

But, let's bring the issue down to reality; there are "a bunch" of whining gear boxes in both Model S and Rav4 EV. I personally know of several motors that have been replaced that have never towed a trailer.

Assuming these are a simple three gear "helicut" assembly, you guys can do your own research to determine that.

Obviously, this isn't a design "feature" and they aren't replacing expensive motor/gearbox assemblies for fun (or looking for trailer towing to blame it on). Or to appease me becasue I complained of gearbox noise.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I edited the above post (several posts up) to this:


Trailer towing rarely has anything to do with the motor for light duty applications. It's a braking, suspension, and drivetrain cooling issue.

The Rav4 EV uses the same brakes as the oil burning 2012 Rav4. It doesn't need extensive cooling for the drivetrain, as there aren't huge amounts of waste energy to dissipate as heat. There is no transmission that requires removal of excess heat (no slipping clutches, bands, or torque converters). The current gear reduction box that failed in my Rav4 EV (4050 pound car) is the same one that is used with a 4600 pound Model S with 440 foot pounds of torque.

The oil burner Rav4 is rated for 3500 pounds trailer towing, and uses the same trailer hitch receiver mounts as the Rav4 EV.

The Rav4 EV does have one unique feature not found in a piston oil burning tow vehicle, and that is lack of engine braking. That is HUGE!!! I recommend trailer brakes on any EV towing anything bigger that a lawn mower trailer. You will overheat the brakes on long downhill roads with a trailer load pushing you and the EV battery either cold or near 100% of capacity.

PLEASE PLEASE use trailer brakes and don't become a statistic. If the brakes overheat, the car will "run away" with you, possibly to your grave. It's not a joke, and if you don't understand how that can kill you, please don't tow anything.

Flat landers in Denmark, Kansas, or other places that don't know what a hill is, you should be safe without trailer brakes below 3500 pounds trailer weight.

 

[ELROY]

Wow Tony, did you have nearly as many problems with the LEAF?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Wow Tony, did you have nearly as many problems with the LEAF?

I didn't have any problems with the LEAFs. The range is too short for me as a primary car. The hot temperature battery degradation issue really didn't affect me here in San Diego other than any degradation at all was too much. I lost about 15% on the 2011 LEAF with 25,000 miles and 10% on the 2012 LEAF in 11,000 miles.

It was quiet, smooth, peppy around town, has quick charge capability and relatively cheap. If they fixed the capacity issue (unlikely) and offered greater range options, I would consider a LEAF again.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

would love to do that! I can meet you part way. do coffee or whatever. are u available during the week? or more weekend?