Official Toyota RAV4 EV thread

[cwerdna]

I hope waidy isn't kicking herself since she still has one!

Ha, I knew about the $2500. The same day I brought the Rav I mailed in the form (that's Nov 11). A month went by, I still haven't gotten the $2500 check yet.

The $5000 is new to me. I don't know whether I can still get it.

Cool on the 1st part. As for the latter, I doubt it. I think this is a new incentive and it looks like it's a So Cal (LA area?) incentive only. I don't see if it I put in a 95136 zip code.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

so manufacturers have determined a market adjustment of $4-7,000 is needed to move the EVs? I am hoping this lasts until Jan 2014. I am really conflicted right now.

on the one hand; my lease payments are $162 and only have 13....no 12 more to go. hoping the 2014 gets the TMS battery plus better range for lease in the $250 month range.

or trade in 2011, lease 2012 for just over $200 a month but for only a few things i want (seat heaters, steering wheel) but there is nothing wrong with my LEAF. i have over 25,000 miles on it. just drove 74.8 miles today mostly freeway, during cold weather estimated range to turtel of 80.4 miles so have to say...

ah...

 

[edatoakrun]

so manufacturers have determined a market adjustment of $4-7,000 is needed to move the EVs? I am hoping this lasts until Jan 2014...

Some of the largest BEV discounts from some manufacturers may not last, even till Jan 2013.

I spoke to a salesman at one of the CA dealers offering huge discounts last week. The gist of his comments was that Nissan had a specific California LEAF sales goal by the end of the year to earn 2012 ZEV market credits, and that the largest discounts would end when that sales target was met.

Coming from someone wanting to sell LEAFs now, I would say this should be taken with a grain of salt...

But it would be easy to understand how lower-than-planned 2012 BEV/PHEV sales in the eleven (?) states participating in the ZEV credit trading program might have multiple manufacturers short of credits scrambling to meet their trade obligations by year end.

The article below from last summer sets up the scenario:

The ZEV Credit Market

Another element of the rules already in effect is the ZEV credit provision, which lets automakers earn credits based on all-electric range for vehicles that don't have gasoline engines, such as the Nissan Leaf, the Ford Focus EV and the Honda FCX Clarity fuel-cell sedan. Automakers earn fewer credits for partial zero-emissions vehicles, such as the plug-in hybrid Chevrolet Volt and the recently launched Toyota Prius Plug-In.

Automakers are required to amass a certain number of credits each year and they can meet the requirement in one of two ways. One is to build the required number of vehicles. If they can't or won't build as many as required, they can make up the difference by purchasing excess credits from automakers that have exceeded their base requirement.
Tesla Motors has been amassing ZEV credits for several years, and American Honda has been buying them to offset its own ZEV production deficit. Honda didn't build as many Clarity fuel-cell electric vehicles as it initially planned and is only now launching its first EV, a limited-production all-electric version of the Fit.

Nissan North America, which started selling the Leaf at the end of 2010, has said it has excess credits and probably will sell some to help offset the cost of developing its EV.

Different Zero-Emissions Vehicle Strategies

Not every automaker required to build zero-emissions vehicles for California will offer them in other states. Honda, for instance, plans to make only 1,100 of its Fit EV subcompacts over the next three years and will only offer it on a lease-only basis in California and Oregon. At least initially, Toyota also is limiting availability of some of its ZEV-compliant vehicles, such as the upcoming all-electric RAV4 SUV.
"There are a bunch [of automakers] in the middle — including Toyota — that are not sure how to make this work and are trying multiple paths," says Mike Love, national regulatory affairs manager for Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A...

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/will-californias-zero-emissions-mandate-alter-the-car-landscape.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[reeler]

can someone buy one for me? lol
They can keep the $7500 tax rebate too.
and state.

i tried calling, but they said no out of state sales.

Call Anthony at Tustin Toyota. He sold me one for Colorado. I had to arrange shipping.

 

[TonyWilliams]

so manufacturers have determined a market adjustment of $4-7,000 is needed to move the EVs? I am hoping this lasts until Jan 2014. I am really conflicted right now.

The Rav4 is an extremely high priced car for the market it was originally aimed at ($25k-$30k). Just throwing a big battery under it doesn't change the that fact.

So, beyond "nut jobs" like me, it's a teeny tiny market who will drop $50k for a 100 plus mile car.

 

[BudRaymond]

Minus. $ 2,500 Toyota loyalty (I suspect you have to prove you owned a Toyota)

Just found this out from a dealer:

$2,500 EV Loyalty Cash ( Eligible Consumers will receive their loyalty forms via email or mail ) previous RAV4EV owners

Well, as a previous 2002 RAV4 EV owner, this is very tempting. And the fact that it's a Tesla SUV... Hmmm...

Dealer said the EV Loyalty Credit is only for those who still own their previous RAV-4 EV.

 

[qwk]

can someone buy one for me? lol
They can keep the $7500 tax rebate too.
and state.

i tried calling, but they said no out of state sales.

Call Anthony at Tustin Toyota. He sold me one for Colorado. I had to arrange shipping.

So how are you dealing with the mandatory 6 month battery health check to keep the drivetrain/battery warranty intact? Only select California dealers have the tools and expertise necessary to do this, and Tesla does the work on the powertrain/battery if there is a warranty problem. Does this mean you will have to ship the car back to California if there is an issue?

Let me know, as I was thinking of also getting one, but the service location is the only barrier.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

can someone buy one for me? lol
They can keep the $7500 tax rebate too.
and state.

i tried calling, but they said no out of state sales.

Call Anthony at Tustin Toyota. He sold me one for Colorado. I had to arrange shipping.

So how are you dealing with the mandatory 6 month battery health check to keep the drivetrain/battery warranty intact? Only select California dealers have the tools and expertise necessary to do this, and Tesla does the work on the powertrain/battery if there is a warranty problem. Does this mean you will have to ship the car back to California if there is an issue?

Let me know, as I was thinking of also getting one, but the service location is the only barrier.

service does not have to be done by dealer you got car from or even from Toyota. that requirement is against the law.

 

[reeler]

So how are you dealing with the mandatory 6 month battery health check to keep the drivetrain/battery warranty intact? Only select California dealers have the tools and expertise necessary to do this, and Tesla does the work on the powertrain/battery if there is a warranty problem. Does this mean you will have to ship the car back to California if there is an issue?

Here is the link to the maintenance manual: http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms/T-MMS-12RAV4EV/pdf/2012_Toyota_RAV4_EV_WMG.pdf

I see nothing that requires maintenance for the warranty. There are various recommendations. I believe that all the components of the RAV4 that appear on an ICE equivalent can be serviced locally. For the high voltage issues, they say you have to go to an authorized RAV4 EV dealership. Tesla is building a service center in Denver.

20% of people move every year. I believe that the RAV4 EV will inevitably migrate away from California and there is or will soon be a process in place to service them out of state. I suspect it could involve the car being at the dealership or sent to Tesla for that service. It could even take weeks, but a car company cannot put an unreasonable restriction on where you live.

The CO rebate on the car is $6K. It was about $500 to ship the car. I could send it back to CA 3-6 times for work to be done before I was money behind, but I don't think that will be required. EV cars are very very low maintenance.

 

[toasty]

can someone buy one for me? lol
They can keep the $7500 tax rebate too.
and state.

i tried calling, but they said no out of state sales.

Call Anthony at Tustin Toyota. He sold me one for Colorado. I had to arrange shipping.

So how are you dealing with the mandatory 6 month battery health check to keep the drivetrain/battery warranty intact? Only select California dealers have the tools and expertise necessary to do this, and Tesla does the work on the powertrain/battery if there is a warranty problem. Does this mean you will have to ship the car back to California if there is an issue?

Let me know, as I was thinking of also getting one, but the service location is the only barrier.

never thought about this. i guess i need to calm down.
plus i just found out about the 2500 is only for previous rav4 ev owners, i thought any EV owner counted, (i guess not).

 

[jcstp]

watch page 20 of the ownersguide

http://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms/T-MMS-12RAV4EV/pdf/2012_Toyota_RAV4_EV_WMG.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It shows it is no problem getting warranty out of california

BY GEOGRAPHIC REGION
In the United States, U.S.
Territories and Canada
To obtain warranty service in the United
States, U.S. territories or Canada, take
your vehicle to an authorized Toyota
dealership. If your vehicle cannot be
driven, contact your nearest Toyota
dealership for towing assistance. You do
not have to pay for towing to the nearest
Toyota dealership if your vehicle is
inoperable due to failure of a warranted
part.
The Toyota RAV4 EV is being offered in
limited quantities in certain California
markets. While non-powertrain warranty
service can be performed by any Toyota
dealership, powertrain and high voltage
component warranty service must only be
performed by an authorized RAV4 EV
dealership. Because your electric
powertrain warranty service can only be
performed by an authorized RAV4 EV
dealership, Toyota does not recommend
home-basing the vehicle outside the state
of California.
Outside the United States, U.S.
Territories and Canada
If you are using your vehicle outside the
United States, U.S. territories and Canada
and need warranty service, contact a local
Toyota dealership. Please note, however,
that your vehicle may not be repaired free
of charge because the local Toyota
distributor may have no obligation to
provide warranty service for your vehicle,
and/or your vehicle may not comply with
local regulatory or environmental
requirements.

 

[RegGuheert]

It shows it is no problem getting warranty out of california

Maybe so, but they certainly caution about the lack of powertrain service if you are elsewhere:

Because your electric powertrain warranty service can only be performed by an authorized RAV4 EV dealership, Toyota does not recommend home-basing the vehicle outside the state of California.

It seems a warranty problem with the powertrain outside of California could be extremely costly for the vehicle owner.

 

[cwerdna]

It shows it is no problem getting warranty out of california

Maybe so, but they certainly caution about the lack of powertrain service if you are elsewhere:

Because your electric powertrain warranty service can only be performed by an authorized RAV4 EV dealership, Toyota does not recommend home-basing the vehicle outside the state of California.

It seems a warranty problem with the powertrain outside of California could be extremely costly for the vehicle owner.

One would hope that Tesla and Toyota could come to some sort of arrangement where Tesla service centers can handle the powertrain work.

 

[edatoakrun]

More on current discounts and ZEV credits, also stating that "New Promotional Pricing In Effect (only?) Until January 7th, 2013".

Toyota Discounts The RAV4 EV By Up To $7,500 And Offers 0% To Gain ZEV Credits

Less Than 150 Customers Have Taken Toyota Up On Their Original Deal Since The EV Debuted In September

Like Honda has already discovered with its Fit EV, just because you are building a limited run compliance car for emissions regulations does not mean you can price it anyway you want and it will sell.

Toyota is looking to building out 2,600 of the 103 mile (EPA) electric RAV4 EVs over the next 3 years, and they figured that customers would be willing to pay $49,800 for the little SUV.


Unfortunately, despite a strong initial showing of over 60 cars sold in the first few weeks, Toyota now sells about 30 a month (32 in November), and at that rate it will take them to around 2020 to sell them all.

Those results will do little to satisfy CARB long term, let alone get in their numbers for 2012 ZEV (zero emission vehicles) credits.

Enter the discounts!

Toyota is offering a $5,000 cash back program along with 0% financing and a $2,500 loyalty program (that most are unlikely to receive).

This new money can be of course combined with the $7,500 federal credit, and the $2,500 in California state incentives. A customer could be saving up to $17,500 in total off the RAV4EV, making a very attractive net cost of $32,300.

All these discounts mean the RAV4 EV that was originally available for lease at $599 a month can now be owned for less per month (based on 60 months). We expected Toyota to be rewarded with brisk sales in December...

http://insideevs.com/toyota-discounts-the-rav4-ev-by-up-to-7500-and-offers-0-to-gain-zev-credits/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Yeah, I posted about this at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=249583#p249583" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

I guess the "media" has picked up on it now.

As has been discussed, we've discovered that the $2,500 "EV Loyalty Cash" is only for current previous gen Rav4 EV owners.

As for the 1/7/13 end date... it could be extended. I realized that often times, you've got to put end dates/expiration dates on things in order to force/incentive people to take action.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I drove my Rav4 191 miles today, and now, after several long distance jaunts, I'm getting a good handle on performance. I started at 100%, drove 17 miles, and once again charged to close to 100% in about 45 minutes (9.6kW Clipper Creek, about 6.5kWh).

It was over 80 miles to a meeting, then a few more miles to find a charging station. I charged for 1+14 hours at 6.05kW for a total of 7.4kWh at the Tesla store in Newport Beach (ChargePoint). We ate at the Cheese Cake Factory, and then onward home. Unfortunately, it looked like my awesome plan was going to come up a bit short, so I stopped for 36 minutes at 6.05kW for 3.54kWh (GE WattStation).

The trip was driven at 55-60mph on mostly freeways. No heater in 55F - 60F temperatures and rain. I arrived home a few miles from dead ("LO" range).

41.8 kWh start
5.6 (6.5 added at 86% efficiency)
6.4 (7.4 added)
3.0 (3.5 added)
56.8 total

56.0 estimated burn

2+35 hours/minutes of total charging

191 miles / 56 kWh = 3.4 miles per kWh (294 watts per mile)

305 km / 56 kWh = 5.45 km per kWh (183 watts per km)

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Rain is a performance killer

 

[RegGuheert]

I drove my Rav4 191 miles today...

That's great! The most I have managed in the LEAF is just over 150 miles in a single day, but that required about 6 hours of charging at the destination for the return trip. I suppose the LEAF could muster close to 200 miles on an out-and-back, but that would require excellent conditions and two 100-mile runs. I don't know that anyone has done a pair of 100-milers in a single day, yet.

 

[mkjayakumar]

Tony,

Do you expect Model S base model to have a slightly higher range than the Rav4EV ?

 

[waidy]

I have both the new Rav4-EV and Model S. I have to say that our household's driving behaviors change from being conservation and careful on the old Rav4-EV and LEAF to a aggressive driving behaviors on the new Rav4-EV and Model S. It is all psychological knowing "I have lots of electrons".

Our record indicates 4-6 miles/kWh on the Old Rav4-EV and LEAF; 2.5-3.5 kWh on the New Rav4-EV and Model S.