Official Tesla Model S thread

[edatoakrun]

A single still photo (page 18, with no attribution) of earlier in the incident has been posted on the Tesla forum thread here:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/59806-A-Model-S-just-caught-fire-while-supercharging-in-Norway-(link-in-Norwegian)/page18

If that is not the battery burning, is there anything else in an S (other than flammable cargo) that could explain that flame column?

I've seen some comments elsewhere that the vestigial bodywork remaining (unlike the puddle of molten aluminum left after other S fires) and less explosive fire behavior indicate less energy released than in other S fires, indicating that the battery may not have burned completely, or at all.

Couldn't this be explained by the fact that a discharged S battery pack (this car reportedly had just been plugged into the supercharger) gives off significantly less heat during a fire than a more fully charged one?

 

[Firetruck41]

Doesn't look too unlike an ICE vehicle fire. Car fires can be "huge" and give off giant flame/smoke columns because of all the plastic/oil based products they are made of these days. When a car fire gets going, pretty much everything except the metal will burn pretty quick, so the pack burning is not a surprise or much of a concern... unless the battery pack is the cause of the fire.

 

[abasile]

..so the pack burning is not a surprise or much of a concern... unless the battery pack is the cause of the fire.

Even if a defect in the pack turns out to have been the cause, I would not find this overly concerning. This was obviously a very rare event, and in any case, if anyone had been in the car they almost certainly would have had time to exit without injuries. The Model S continues to be one of the safest cars, if not the safest car, available.

In any case, I wouldn't be too quick to draw conclusions about the cause. I'm confident that Tesla will fully investigate.

Any fire, however, can serve as a reminder to take reasonable precautions. Every home should of course have smoke detectors that are capable of waking people during the night, as fires are common. All it takes is an electrical short and a faulty breaker, for instance.

 

[edatoakrun]

Another gallery (?) of fire photos.

Anyone looking at the last photo still think the pack did not burn?

http://www.igjerstad.no/tesla-tok-fyr-pa-brokelandsheia

..so the pack burning is not a surprise or much of a concern... unless the battery pack is the cause of the fire.

Even if a defect in the pack turns out to have been the cause, I would not find this overly concerning. This was obviously a very rare event...

"Rare?''

If one in a thousand S's eventually is retired by a pack fire, is that acceptable?

I think you should consider what the ramifications for TSLA will be should a pack fire in an S with passengers inside be captured in photos/video .

 

[Zythryn]

Another gallery (?) of fire photos.

Anyone looking at the last photo still think the pack did not burn?
.. .

Even without looking at the photo, I don't think anyone has said the pack didn't burn.
The question is, where did the fire start?

 

[Valdemar]

Yeah, I'd like to find the statistics about the number of fires per 1000 vehicles produced. I suspect Tesla will not score too high.

 

[Firetruck41]

Another gallery (?) of fire photos.

Anyone looking at the last photo still think the pack did not burn?

http://www.igjerstad.no/tesla-tok-fyr-pa-brokelandsheia

..so the pack burning is not a surprise or much of a concern... unless the battery pack is the cause of the fire.

Even if a defect in the pack turns out to have been the cause, I would not find this overly concerning. This was obviously a very rare event...

"Rare?''

If one in a thousand S's eventually is retired by a pack fire, is that acceptable?

I think you should consider what the ramifications for TSLA will be should a pack fire in an S with passengers inside be captured in photos/video .

The fact that the pack burned is of no consequence to me. I expect every car to be nothing but sheet metal after it has burned, unless the fire department intervenes fairly quickly. Whether it started with the pack, is what would concern me. Anyone who is inside a car that has fire involving the passenger compartment will die within a matter of seconds to minutes, regardless of whether it is an ICE or BEV.

 

[edatoakrun]

Another gallery (?) of fire photos.

Anyone looking at the last photo still think the pack did not burn?
.. .

Even without looking at the photo, I don't think anyone has said the pack didn't burn...

See comments to that effect on the previous page.

And the discussion on the Tesla forum, over the last ~day, here:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/59806-A-Model-S-just-caught-fire-while-supercharging-in-Norway-(link-in-Norwegian)/page31

Barring the speculation there that this S was carrying flammable material, I'm not sure whether Tesla owners would rather find out that the pack did burn, or that a fire of this intensity is possible in an Tesla without the pack igniting.

What determination would you prefer?

 

[palmermd]

Another gallery (?) of fire photos.

Anyone looking at the last photo still think the pack did not burn?
.. .

Even without looking at the photo, I don't think anyone has said the pack didn't burn...

See comments to that effect on the previous page.

And the discussion on the Tesla forum, over the last ~day, here:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/59806-A-Model-S-just-caught-fire-while-supercharging-in-Norway-(link-in-Norwegian)/page31

Barring the speculation there that this S was carrying flammable material, I'm not sure whether Tesla owners would rather find out that the pack did burn, or that a fire of this intensity is possible in an Tesla without the pack igniting.

What determination would you prefer?

I really wish you would stop with the Tesla bashing. Have you seen the pictures of the Nissan Leaf fire in Texas earlier this year? Any car that has its interior catch fire will create an enormous fire regardless of whether the fuel (ICE) or battery (EV) ever contributes to the fire. Stop trying to bash Tesla and lets just wait to hear from the investigators about the source of the fire.

 

[Firetruck41]

Another gallery (?) of fire photos.

Anyone looking at the last photo still think the pack did not burn?
.. .

Even without looking at the photo, I don't think anyone has said the pack didn't burn...

See comments to that effect on the previous page.

You made the claim, so you can quote the comments where people claimed the pack did not burn.

And the discussion on the Tesla forum, over the last ~day, here:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/59806-A-Model-S-just-caught-fire-while-supercharging-in-Norway-(link-in-Norwegian)/page31

Barring the speculation there that this S was carrying flammable material, I'm not sure whether Tesla owners would rather find out that the pack did burn, or that a fire of this intensity is possible in an Tesla without the pack igniting.

What determination would you prefer?

I haven't seen anything that indicates intensity different than many car fires.

When it comes to car fires, there are only degrees of bad. When the interior of any car gets involved in fire, either the car is totaled and you die quickly if you are stuck inside, or the car is totaled and you die really quickly if you are stuck inside.

Same in the car you are driving right now, replace "pack" with "gas tank" if you drive an ICE, and which determination would you prefer?

Personally, I don't care about either determination, only what actually caused the fire matters.

 

[abasile]

"Rare?''

If one in a thousand S's eventually is retired by a pack fire, is that acceptable?

I think you should consider what the ramifications for TSLA will be should a pack fire in an S with passengers inside be captured in photos/video .

Of course that wouldn't be acceptable. Here, though, we have exactly one instance of an S catching fire while SuperCharging. There are roughly 110,000 Model S cars on the road. While Tesla needs to take this incident seriously and investigate as fully as possible, this isn't something that I as a hopeful Tesla used car buyer would lose sleep over. Also, recall that in the instances where the pack was compromised while being driven (before Tesla started including titanium shields under the car), the car warned the driver of a fault and there was ample time to avoid potential injury.

More relevant to my family is that the Model S has a superior track record of protecting its occupants in much-more-frequent auto accidents. Also of great relevance to us is that Tesla battery packs, on average, seem to lose capacity at a much slower rate than LEAFs. If I could have known in early 2011 that my LEAF would end up losing ~25% of its battery capacity in five years and 60K miles, I would have followed the lead of a friend who at that time elected not to buy a LEAF (due to the limited range) and instead saved his money toward a Tesla S which he enjoys to this day in a hot climate.

 

[Zythryn]

...

Barring the speculation there that this S was carrying flammable material, I'm not sure whether Tesla owners would rather find out that the pack did burn, or that a fire of this intensity is possible in an Tesla without the pack igniting.

What determination would you prefer?

I am fairly indifferent as the intensity wasn't any higher than any other vehicle fire.
I would be surprised if the battery pack had not ignited at some point.
So I suppose I would be far more impressed if the pack had not ignited.

I did see a couple of posts speculating that the pack never ignited. This is pure speculation at this point based on how square the wheels and remainders of the B pillars are. They are reasoning that since the pack is such an integral part to the body integrity, that those items would have collapsed or at least be out of square. I don't know that I buy that.

I do look forward to the results of the investigation.

 

[edatoakrun]

Google translation below seems to indicate that no outside ignition source for the fire was found, and that the pack did burn?

Accident Investigation Board concludes Tesla scrutiny

...indications that the fire originated in the car...

It was at the request of NPRA that AIBN was to assess the risk associated with this type of fast charging. To Agderposten justifies Mellum decision to quit work is also about lack of resources...

It was New Year's Day in year one Tesla Model S began to burn when it stood at a Tesla fast charging station along the E18 at Brokelandsheia in Aust-Agder. The accident occurred at noon. The one year old Tesla was completely burned out...

https://www.dn.no/privat/dnBil/2016/01/14/1612/statens-havarikommisjon-avslutter-teslagransking

I expect we'll eventually get comments from TSLA on the fire , which may have additional details.

 

[edatoakrun]

Tesla announces the latest (effective) price cut on the S:

...Tesla has a variety of attractive financing options available including a limited-time lease program on a Model S that starts at just $698 per month...

...There is a slight asterisk to this number, as we found out directly on Tesla’s website – a 10,000 mile/year lease cap, and near 10% of the MSRP, $6,393 due at signing.

Still, this lease deal today is far superior than anything you could get when Tesla first introduced the program, and about ~$55 less per month than in 2015...

http://insideevs.com/tesla-promotes-limited-time-698month-model-s-lease/

 

[smkettner]

When did the 85 get dropped? Just a 70 and 90 on the website.
Only 2wd is the base 70

 

[DaveEV]

When did the 85 get dropped? Just a 70 and 90 on the website.
Only 2wd is the base 70

This weekend. If you want a RWD 85 kWh Model S, get a CPO or Inventory car.

 

[Zythryn]

When did the 85 get dropped? Just a 70 and 90 on the website.
Only 2wd is the base 70

I'll be selling Sig 116, a RWD 85, soon if you are interested

 

[smkettner]

Just thought it was odd to phase out the 2wd. Don't need a hot rod.

 

[Zythryn]

Just thought it was odd to phase out the 2wd. Don't need a hot rod.

2wd?
The RWD is an option on the S.
CUVs, afaik, typically come as AWD only.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Just thought it was odd to phase out the 2wd. Don't need a hot rod.

Well, the 70 is still available. And if the RWD versions weren't selling with the larger batteries I can see why Tesla would discontinue them to simplify production. Dual motor versions also have the advantage of being more efficient: greater range and lower Wh/mile. That would be my guess as to why many people are ordering Ds. The hotrod fans are ordering the P (Performance) model: P90D and P90D"L".

The Model 3 is expected to have RWD on the base model and AWD will be an additional cost option.