Official Tesla Model S thread

[mikeEmike]

I hold a 'proper' opinion of Tesla in my rightful capacity as a potential consumer.

You're entitled to your opinion, just like I am. And you can call it "proper", but that's your opinion.

 

[donald]

No.

It is not an 'opinion' that I am a potential consumer, and therefore have a proper opinion about my choice as a consumer, it is a fact.

You are free to disagree that my opinion is correct or not, of course you are, but you are not at liberty to disagree that I can have an opinion. I have a rightful and proper status to hold an opinion as a consumer, because I am one!

..... unless you live in a totalitarian state and wish to deny me the rights of a consumer?

 

[mikeEmike]

No.

It is not an 'opinion' that I am a potential consumer, and therefore have a proper opinion about my choice as a consumer, it is a fact.

You are free to disagree that my opinion is correct or not, of course you are, but you are not at liberty to disagree that I can have an opinion. I have a rightful and proper status to hold an opinion as a consumer, because I am one!

..... unless you live in a totalitarian state and wish to deny me the rights of a consumer?

That's not how totalitarianism works. You would have to be the one living in a totalitarian state in order to have your rights denied for something like this, not me.

For the sake of others trying to follow the topic of this thread, I'm done with this tangent.

 

[kubel]

That's not how totalitarianism works.... I'm done with this tangent.

No, don't stop now. We are merely a post or two away from Godwin's law. Quick- someone mention Hitler or Nazis or something- we were almost there with totalitarianism.

 

[TonyWilliams]

That's not how totalitarianism works.... I'm done with this tangent.

No, don't stop now. We are merely a post or two away from Godwin's law. Quick- someone mention Hitler or Nazis or something- we were almost there with totalitarianism.

You kids are having such a good time that I hate to jolt a bit of reality to the thread... let's get on topic.

 

[nosuchthing]

Some potentially serious mechanical issues have reportedly started to crop up in the Tesla Model S.

What's known as a "milling sound," is that of the drive unit, and it needs to be replaced every 10,000 miles.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/07/20/will-a-major-drive-unit-problem-decimate-tesla-mot.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[padamson1]

I think this has been discussed at length on another thread, but I don't think this article, which has some interesting reasoning and a lot of comments, was included:
http://insideevs.com/real-imagined-tesla-model-s-drivetrain-defective/.

75 drive train replacements represents 0.25% of shipped Tesla Model S's so it may not be as bad as the guys shorting Tesla stock say it is...

 

[dhanson865]

Powertrain numbers are similar between Model S and 2013 Leaf though admittedly both are worse than 2012 or 2011 Leaf

http://www.truedelta.com/Tesla-Model-S/powertrain-reliability-1095/vs-LEAF-968" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Nubo]

I think this has been discussed at length on another thread, but I don't think this article, which has some interesting reasoning and a lot of comments, was included:
http://insideevs.com/real-imagined-tesla-model-s-drivetrain-defective/.

I tend to agree with Rickard's analysis. The acceleration and full torque from 0mph is an unprecedented parameter that conventional automotive drive train designs have not had to face. It could well have to do with what he calls the "slew rate". You've got drive train pieces experiencing tremendous acceleration events as other pieces slam into them until the slack or "wind up" is taken out of the drive train.

People complain about the slight lag when "flooring" the LEAF from a stop. I speculate that it is to prevent just this kind of drive train abuse. Nissan may have been more willing to leave a couple 1/10ths of a second of 0-60 time on the table, than Tesla.

 

[cwerdna]

Some potentially serious mechanical issues have reportedly started to crop up in the Tesla Model S.

What's known as a "milling sound," is that of the drive unit, and it needs to be replaced every 10,000 miles.

I don't feel that's a fair statement at all.

Edmunds had their drive units replaced for noise, then total failure (along w/the HV battery pack and 12 volt), then noise again. But yes, that was all within 30K miles.

I've seen the many instances of Model S folks getting their drive units replaced (mainly for noise, a few for failure), sometimes multiple times vs. it being almost unheard of her on MNL, despite there being way more Leafs in the world and the Leaf shipping for years longer than the Model S. Rav4 EV (Tesla-powered) owners seem to also experiencing a fair # of drive unit replacements for noise.

I posted a few links to those w/significant Model S failures at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=373517#p373517" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I have many more and there are many more.

However, I think it's a pretty fair statement to say that the odds of Model S or Rav4 EV requiring at least 1 drive unit replacement, possibly multiple replacements before 50K miles look pretty high.

 

[cwerdna]

I think this has been discussed at length on another thread, but I don't think this article, which has some interesting reasoning and a lot of comments, was included:
http://insideevs.com/real-imagined-tesla-model-s-drivetrain-defective/.

75 drive train replacements represents 0.25% of shipped Tesla Model S's so it may not be as bad as the guys shorting Tesla stock say it is...

At http://insideevs.com/real-imagined-tesla-model-s-drivetrain-defective/#comment-494013" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, I see

Anton Wahlman
July 22, 2014 at 9:50 am

Tom Saxton’s survey of 256 Model S owners yielded 13% drivetrain replacements.

Later on he points to http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/model-s/results.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I downloaded the tab separated data near the bottom. There were 264 entries. For the motor_swapped field, there were 42 with YES (via the simple COUNTIF function after I imported it into Excel). That equals 15.9%.

Either number is pretty horrific. It'll be very interesting to see what happens when more and more Model S warranties expire.

I also summed up the motor_swap_count field. It was 50. It probably should be 51 as there was a 0 in there but its motor_swapped value was YES and there were date_motor_swap and odo_motor_swap values for that car.

For comparison, http://consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/reliability-histories/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; lists what the average problem rates are for various systems by model year for CR subscribers who answer their auto survey. The reliability surveys only span one year's time at a time, but usually less than a year for the latest model year.

So, if a '13 car of a given model had responses where even 1% reported trouble with engine major, engine minor, transmission major or transmission minor within a time span between purchase and answering the survey, then that vehicle would have below average reliability for that system. Page says "The 2013 models were generally less than six months old at the time of the survey, with an average of about 3,000 miles".

A '12 would've almost certainly accumulated a full 12 months + some time outside the survey's time span (up to a year) but the same percentages apply for those systems.

 

[donald]

Some potentially serious mechanical issues have reportedly started to crop up in the Tesla Model S.

What's known as a "milling sound," is that of the drive unit, and it needs to be replaced every 10,000 miles.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/07/20/will-a-major-drive-unit-problem-decimate-tesla-mot.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is the conversation I started 5 pages back.

We are at risk of repeating the last several pages!

Maybe need more than one thread now for this model?

 

[DaveEV]

Maybe need more than one thread now for this model?

No, that's why I merged that thread into this one - because it's already been discussed a billion times. For some reason it's only now just hit the mainstream media.

Note that personally I am not necessarily opposed to having multiple Tesla threads - that would probably mean a specific Tesla sub-forum. Other moderators may disagree.

 

[nosuchthing]

Oh! So that's where my post went.

Didn't know about the thread and/or the problem with Tesla. An eye-opener for me. 13 to 16% drive train failure is quite shocking, actually. I wonder if or how it will affect development of Model III.

 

[apvbguy]

Oh! So that's where my post went.

Didn't know about the thread and/or the problem with Tesla. An eye-opener for me. 13 to 16% drive train failure is quite shocking, actually. I wonder if or how it will affect development of Model III.

you and anyone else who thinks and is not one of the fan boyz

 

[abasile]

13 to 16% drive train failure is quite shocking, actually.

I agree. Tesla has an impressive team of top notch engineers, so I do have faith that they will get to the bottom of this. In the meantime, I agree with others that Tesla should warrant the powertrain, at no additional charge, for a much longer time period, to maintain consumer confidence.

Also, I wonder if Tesla's engineers have perhaps already come up with long term solutions to the powertrain problems. One question to ask would be, what was the production date on the most recent vehicle to need a powertrain replacement? Tesla might find it most expedient to only repair/service cars that actually manifest a problem.

 

[nosuchthing]

While we're on the subject. I mentioned this before: A 6-ft adult, such as myself, cannot sit in the S model back seat w/o hitting the roof. This is why we also passed on Insight when it came out a few years ago.

If I can't sit in the back, car is a no-go. I can even sit in the rear of my Spark EV with no overhead problem. So that somehow needs fixing as well. Maybe a new gen S model in the future will address it. I am sure the X, being an SUV, won't have this problem. Curious to see what Model III will look like in that regard.

 

[Berlino]

What's known as a "milling sound," is that of the drive unit, and it needs to be replaced every 10,000 miles.

I'm at 17,000 miles with one drive-train. Somehow, I made it from the Atlantic to the Pacific and back with 90% of the mileage being on a "due to be replaced" drive-train.

 

[Zythryn]

While we're on the subject. I mentioned this before: A 6-ft adult, such as myself, cannot sit in the S model back seat w/o hitting the roof. This is why we also passed on Insight when it came out a few years ago.

If I can't sit in the back, car is a no-go. I can even sit in the rear of my Spark EV with no overhead problem. So that somehow needs fixing as well. Maybe a new gen S model in the future will address it. I am sure the X, being an SUV, won't have this problem. Curious to see what Model III will look like in that regard.

This is due to a high floor and sloped roofline of a hatchback.
Some have found it works better withhe pano roof which gets you an extra inch or so of headroom.
I don't sit in the back seat of my car, so it isn't an issue for me

 

[apvbguy]

While we're on the subject. I mentioned this before: A 6-ft adult, such as myself, cannot sit in the S model back seat w/o hitting the roof. This is why we also passed on Insight when it came out a few years ago.

If I can't sit in the back, car is a no-go. I can even sit in the rear of my Spark EV with no overhead problem. So that somehow needs fixing as well. Maybe a new gen S model in the future will address it. I am sure the X, being an SUV, won't have this problem. Curious to see what Model III will look like in that regard.

interesting! in all the years and all the cars that I've owned I can count on my hand the times I've sat in the back seat of my car. as for the tesla, I have had 6ft + people back there and there wasn't any complaints