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pchilds said:
What do you think of the new SCE TOU rates? I went from owing $10 to $20 a month to having a surplus of $30+ a month. I will probably run the AC more this summer, because it doesn't pay to have a surplus.
Be very carefull. If you jump in tiers (thinking it's ok to use up 2 thousand kWh's all in August, for example) running the AC - your usage will not only use up the surpluss, you'll find a big fat bill. We did that one December (xmas lights, electric heaters - even in the garage) and really got hammered ... even though technically, the kWh's balanced out.
 
Got my Leaf on Sat. I just called on Monday to switch from domestic TOU to TOU-D-TEV
Since I already have PV, they ask what type of EV, and for 120 or 240 charging.
Was done in less than 2 minutes. I should see the changes in the next billing cycle.

smkettner said:
Randmac said:
Called SCE yesterday to switch from domestic TOU to EV TOU and they would not make the change. They require a site planner to inspect things first. So now a planner is supposed to call within the next 5 days to set an appt. I told them the planner will have to inspect without me during weekdays. Anybody else have to go through this?
IIRC I had the same response. Never saw the guy but SCE still needed to change out my meter to do TOU and they put a sticker on the main panel cover that says "120/240" must be some secret code :lol:

Two weeks later SCE was doing the entire street with the new smart meters. Had to tell the guy don't bother :roll:
 
nexusplexus said:
Got my Leaf on Sat. I just called on Monday to switch from domestic TOU to TOU-D-TEV
Since I already have PV, they ask what type of EV, and for 120 or 240 charging.
Was done in less than 2 minutes. I should see the changes in the next billing cycle.

smkettner said:
Randmac said:
Called SCE yesterday to switch from domestic TOU to EV TOU and they would not make the change. They require a site planner to inspect things first. So now a planner is supposed to call within the next 5 days to set an appt. I told them the planner will have to inspect without me during weekdays. Anybody else have to go through this?
IIRC I had the same response. Never saw the guy but SCE still needed to change out my meter to do TOU and they put a sticker on the main panel cover that says "120/240" must be some secret code :lol:

Two weeks later SCE was doing the entire street with the new smart meters. Had to tell the guy don't bother :roll:
I believe SCE changed policy in the past few months - site inspections are reserved for higher-capacity EV's like Teslas and perhaps BMW Active-E or Toyota RAV. They aren't checking on 3.3 or 6 kW chargers anymore.
 
Back in '09 they sent a site planner when we simply enlarged our 100amp main service panel to a 225amp panel. same location. The old panel (identical to all the others in our 500 home community) is several feet from anything else (corners, plumbing etc) - which existing floor plans show ... yet they still came out to see it. They look for a few seconds then off they go. Nice work if you can get it.
 
Has anyone recently added a second meter so that they could apply for the Electric Vehicle Plan (TOU-EV-1) rate?
I was trying to do this but found that the requirements are a pain in the butt.
Manny
 
I tried - until I found out your average union electrical contractor gets over $1,000 to bust out your stucco - and install the meter socket, prior to Edison putting their meter in. So let's see ... if I save 10¢/kWh ... times (say) 2kWh's a day (since I get 9kWh's / day at work anyway) ... or appx 30kWh's / month ... that's $3/ month or $36 a year
oh boy! ... the extra meter socket will pay for itself in only 27 years. :lol:
But if I stop charging at work & use more of my own juice at home ... quadrupling my meter use ... that'd pay back in only 6 3/4 years. oh yea ... I know a bargain when I see one. :?
Fortunately, our PV solar surpluss outweighs our use ... so I don't even have to consider snapping up bargains like that.
.
 
I have someone who can do the work at much more reasonable prices. The issue is you have to time this thing. SCE comes out and turns the electricity off at the pole. The electrician then has to put in a box for the splice. Assuming you have service coming in from the ground. You intersect the line and put it in a box. Then you splice to the original meter and add a new meter box. SCE comes out and turns on the power and adds the meter. During all this there may be a requirement that the County or City checks it off. Personally, I think they can come in afterwards. My electrician is not too excited because he has not renewed his lic. as he works for a company that has a lic. However as a do it yourself person I can do the work and just make sure he instructs me or he does it but I represent having done it. It is a timing issue. I can probably get the cost of the electrician down to $200. You need the box for the splice and the panel that will hold the other meter. Stucco work is not hard to do as far as repairs. I figure if I did it the payoff would be a 1 1/2 year deal. I have solar but only covers about 70% of overall use (not including the Leaf which we charge about 12 to 15 kwh every night.
 
I just received my TOU-EV monthly bill and it includes a $40 "Climate Credit" I checked online and a FAQ says everyone in SCE territory will be getting this credit twice a year, but the amounts will likely vary. It is funded by the CO2 cap auction.

The bill also tells me that since I am in SoCal AQMD territory, I am eligible for a trading a gas mower for an electric one at deep discount.
The AQMD web page says a gas mower pollutes = to 22K miles of gas car.

The Black&Decker 19" 36V battery self-propelled is available for $250 with trade-in of a working gas mower. Has anyone else had experience with this or similar mower? Amazon has both good and not-so-good reviews of this mower. One person needed multiple charges to mow lawn on 1/3 acre lot. Amazon price (no trade-in) is $400.
 
tbleakne said:
I just received my TOU-EV monthly bill and it includes a $40 "Climate Credit" I checked online and a FAQ says everyone in SCE territory will be getting this credit twice a year, but the amounts will likely vary. It is funded by the CO2 cap auction.


Nice! That will probably help me stay at net $0, even with the two cars now.
 
Anyone see the proposed new Schedule D rates? Looks like SCE will be increasing the base rate and the monthly fee that should hit the lower users pretty good.
The higher tiers are getting consolidated with lower rates so the high usage customers are not gouged quite as hard.

With the higher minimum connect fee and lower top tiers it looks like a stratagy to discourage solar.

Proposed rates:
https://www.sce.com/wps/wcm/myconne...Phase1ResRateNoticeV4_English.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

Anyone see changes to the EV rates?
 
I noticed that several months ago SCE changed the Time of Use midnight to 6 am charges. It dropped the cost to I think $0.11 for Winter and $0.10 for Summer. Though frankly it is sometimes difficult to determine exactly how much I am being charged. As you noted you have generation charges as well as distribution charges. I understand the conservative wing of the party is trying to curb benefits to having solar like net metering. They would like to see it end across the US. I am hoping that this does not happen as it impacts our being able to level load the system. SCE was very supportive of Solar not that far back. I wonder if the loss of the Nuclear facility is causing them grief. There is some discussion afoot to have ratepayers make up the billions in loss, rather than have the shareholders eat it all. SCE is not a private company per say and yet not a public company either. I am counting on the rates for electricity in the running of our cars. However, life is full of changes.
Manny
 
drmanny3 said:
I noticed that several months ago SCE changed the Time of Use midnight to 6 am charges. It dropped the cost to I think $0.11 for Winter and $0.10 for Summer. Though frankly it is sometimes difficult to determine exactly how much I am being charged. As you noted you have generation charges as well as distribution charges. I understand the conservative wing of the party is trying to curb benefits to having solar like net metering. They would like to see it end across the US. I am hoping that this does not happen as it impacts our being able to level load the system. SCE was very supportive of Solar not that far back. I wonder if the loss of the Nuclear facility is causing them grief. There is some discussion afoot to have ratepayers make up the billions in loss, rather than have the shareholders eat it all. SCE is not a private company per say and yet not a public company either. I am counting on the rates for electricity in the running of our cars. However, life is full of changes.
Manny

Manny, the Super Off Peak combined rate is now about 9.35 cents per kWh. Just add the delivery and generation charges per kWh on your bill.

From what I've picked up, my impression is that SCE and the other CA utilities would rather not see residential solar have the benefits that it currently has, such as net metering including retail credit for generated power. While the state has distinct goals for a percentage of total power produced by renewables and the utilities have targets to meet those goals, my understanding is that they get no credit toward those targets for the renewables that their residential customers install, only for the commercial renewable power that they contract for. In addition, they say that, contrary to counter arguments, residential solar doesn't allow them to keep from building power plants because on rainy days when residential solar generates nothing, SCE still needs to be able to provide 100% of the power that their customers demand.

As the percentage of their residential customers with solar grows, the utilities have been increasingly trying to make the case that these customers are riding like freeloaders on the public grid, paying nothing while using the grid as a big battery. To aid their case, they've enlisted the argument that the cost of the maintenance of the grid falls to lower income families who live in inland areas. A bill, AB 327, was signed into law last fall by Governor Brown. This law will allow the flattening of rates, which residential customers are apparently already seeing, and a grid use fee of up to $10 per month for residential solar customers, which has yet to be authorized by the PUC, as far as I know.

Here is some reading on the topic.

http://climatepolicyinitiative.org/usa/2013/11/18/will-californias-ab327-help-or-hinder-renewable-energy-the-devil-is-in-the-details/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/AB-327-Signed-Into-Law-in-California-With-Solar-NEM-Warning-from-Jerry-Bro" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
I am actually surprised the on peak rates are 10a to 6p when peak demand is closer to 1p to 10p as currently shown on http://www.caiso.com/Pages/TodaysOutlook.aspx

It will shift by late summer but still the peak comes later and after peak solar production. The timing gives solar a bit more benefit than peak demand would warrant.

The third graph really shows how conventional power must quickly ramp up to meet the peak at 8p/9p.

Going to be hot here in the south tomorrow. CAISO might be interesting to watch.
 
smkettner said:
It will shift by late summer but still the peak comes later and after peak solar production. The timing gives solar a bit more benefit than peak demand would warrant.
Annual peak demand seems to have a peak time consistently between 3-5 PM somewhere between late June and early September.

At 3 PM solar is still generating at/near peak, by 5 PM it's down about 70% peak - still substantial!

smkettner said:
The third graph really shows how conventional power must quickly ramp up to meet the peak at 8p/9p.
But not all that much different than the ramp in early morning from 5-8 am, just longer.

smkettner said:
Going to be hot here in the south tomorrow. CAISO might be interesting to watch.
Predicted 5 PM peak is only 31 GW, same as the evening 9 PM peak.
 
I currently have a separate EV meter/TOU and normal residential for the rest of the home. Do I understand it correctly that if I install solar on the main meter and continue charging my car on a separate plan, given that I generate surplus power I will be able to offset my charging costs by receiving my annual payment under the net metering plan? I understand that I may get slightly better rates by charging my car on the whole-home TOU during super off peak rates, but I also like having a wider window for charging on the off-peak rates under the separate EV TOU plan. I'm also curious how the overlap in the rate time windows plays out, 10am-12noon you can charge your car on EV off-peak rates while selling solar power to SCE at on-peak rates, so it is not much unlike getting paid for fueling your car :)
 
smkettner said:
Anyone see changes to the EV rates?

Yes, SCE filed to change the whole house TOU-D-EV rate at the end of last year; it's expected to take effect ~July. The new rate design replaces the two-tier system with two different A/B rate options (customer choice), and changes the timing of the peak/off-peak periods. I posted a quick & dirty spreadsheet w the changes here: http://twitpic.com/e2jfon

The separate meter TOU-EV-1 rate remains unchanged for now, though very few people are on it. It's mainly a holdover from the 1990s, when dual-meter adapters minimized the cost of separately metering EVs. As others have noted, the current effort and cost of installing a separate meter have proven onerous to many.
 
evchels said:
smkettner said:
Anyone see changes to the EV rates?

Yes, SCE filed to change the whole house TOU-D-EV rate at the end of last year; it's expected to take effect ~July. The new rate design replaces the two-tier system with two different A/B rate options (customer choice), and changes the timing of the peak/off-peak periods. I posted a quick & dirty spreadsheet w the changes here: http://twitpic.com/e2jafa

The separate meter TOU-EV-1 rate remains unchanged for now, though very few people are on it. It's mainly a holdover from the 1990s, when dual-meter adapters minimized the cost of separately metering EVs. As others have noted, the current effort and cost of installing a separate meter have proven onerous to many.

Chelsea, thanks for this update. It's the first I've seen of proposed new TOU-EV rates and proposed timing. Can you link to some source documentation in public domain?

A couple of comments: you probably want to change that upper left box to read Peak rather than Off-Peak. Also, is that Option B truly a monthly charge of $16? It's a little fuzzy on my iPad. If so, I'm pretty sure I don't have to do the math to figure out that Option A is the best choice for our solar-equipped home.

Also, it'll be interesting to see if any grandfathering is applied to current TOU-D-TEV customers with net metering and solar, who did their math based on existing rates at the time of their purchase of their PV systems.
 
Valdemar said:
Is net metering going away?
NO. At least not for a couple of years. If you are considering solar this window could be closing.
I understand for systems installed through 2016 the net metering is locked in for 20 years.

Wish I had a link.
 
Valdemar said:
Is net metering going away?

No, I didn't mean to imply that. But when rates are flattened, the payback times for solar can lengthen because the credits produced for solar power generated during Peak periods are reduced.
 
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