Official Kia Soul EV thread

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Smidge204 said:
I'm not going to hold it against any manufacturer who doesn't jump in with both feet.
But, I'd rather support OEMs that do jump in with both feet than those with unknown commitment.

I think a better overall comparison is with the I-MiEV. Both had a seemingly aggressive ad campaign, which sets them apart from clearly half-assed "compliance cars."
Currently they sound like Spark, not iMiEV - which was generally available outside ZEV states early on.

EV fans keeping falling for this trap - thinking Ford FFE was a serious effort (they made similar noises about producing more based on demand) and then GM Spark EV was a serous effort. Now comes Kia.
 
I'm genuinely sorry if you think cautious optimism is "falling for a trap" - but you can only say that Nissan "jumped in with both feet" with the benefit of hindsight.

=Smidge=
 
I've heard from dealers that we should expect to see the Soul EV in Oregon in 'early 2015'. I remain cautiously optimistic.
 
The 1st test drive yielded 81 miles range. This is what I was afraid of (27 kW battery).

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/first-drive-2015-kia-soul-ev/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The jury's out the 93-mile range. It looks more like a Leaf range than anything else. Spark, meanwhile, holds its own with a solid 84 freeway miles' performance or higher.
 
A local dealer is expecting delivery on or before the 17th. Also said lease info states "the residual is 45% for 36 months with $9000 total lease rebates (which includes $7500 federal tax credit) and a money factor of .00057 for tier 1 credit. The advertised offer is $249+ tax w/ $1999 due at signing for the base EV and $279+ tax w/ $1999 due at signing for the EV+.
 
evnow said:
Actually, considering the low numbers Kia plans to manufacture, advertising the way they are doing is an overkill. May be they are trying to get some green cred with advertisements - so it is more a corporate image thing than selling EVs ?

Perhaps. Even if the initial claim of 150-200 Soul EVs for Canada had been correct, Kia would have been able to sell them without any advertizing.


The allotment of 50 for the entire country may even be more meager than it seems. One dealer has said that 20 of them are earmarked for fleets, and deliveries of the 30 remaining will be spread out over 10 months. Canadian forum readers are only interested in the version with heat pump and CHAdeMO, so they can look forward to about 1.5 cars per month.
 
Berlino said:
Canadian forum readers are only interested in the version with heat pump and CHAdeMO, so they can look forward to about 1.5 cars per month.
Hey, that is more than we'll get here in Seattle - the 3rd highest Leaf sales city.
 
Smidge204 said:
I'm genuinely sorry if you think cautious optimism is "falling for a trap" - but you can only say that Nissan "jumped in with both feet" with the benefit of hindsight.
Sorry - that statement wasn't directed at you - but a general observation.

But I disagree on the second part. We knew Nissan making a multibillion dollar investment on EVs before the first Leaf was delivered.
 
Kia has had ~five years to look at the gen 1 LEAF, and the NYT review suggests they have built a BEV with some significant improvements.

The real problem with Kia's cautious approach may be in how well the Soul EV compares to the LEAF gen 2, when it hits the market (my guess) in the next one-to-two years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/automobiles/review-2015-kia-soul-ev.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BERKELEY, CALIF. — Laggards rarely garner praise. But the foot-dragging way that Kia went about producing the 2015 Soul EV, the company’s first all-electric model in the United States, was a stroke of slacker genius.

The battery-powered Soul went on sale in California last week, its arrival trailing more than 20 other electric and plug-in hybrid cars that have been offered to American customers.

Unlike Nissan, for example, which made a multibillion-dollar all-in gamble on E.V.s, Kia held back, watching and carefully tallying the progress. More important, perhaps, Kia took note of the missteps of major automakers and the many stumbling E.V. start-ups as it readied battery-powered cars for the road...

What’s important is that for a relatively small car, the Soul can carry a hefty 27 kilowatt-hour load of batteries...

The Environmental Protection Agency rated the Soul EV’s range at 93 miles. Other carmakers, using less accommodating vehicles as their foundation, ended up compromising on driving distances: the Ford Focus Electric is rated at 76 miles, the BMW i3 at 81 miles and the Nissan Leaf at 84 miles. Ten extra miles can be the difference between making it home or running out of power.

In my week with the Soul EV here in the Bay Area, I consistently managed just shy of 100 miles of driving range per charge, using no extraordinary eco-friendly maneuvers. That is more miles than any other E.V. available, aside from the Tesla Model S, a far more expensive car that is available with battery packs that provide 208 or up to 265 miles of range.

Were Kia’s engineers actually slackers, they could have complied with California’s zero emissions mandates with far less effort by simply wedging a 16 kilowatt-hour battery into a Rio compact and calling it a day. That would have met the minimum to qualify for a $7,500 federal tax credit to buyers, resulting in an E.V. with a capability similar to Mitsubishi’s 62-mile i-MiEV.

Kia also did its homework when it came to determining how the electric Soul should drive, recognizing this essential insight: How an E.V. brakes is more important than how it accelerates. It’s a view I agree with wholeheartedly...

The place to get aggressive on electric cars is with regenerative braking. Like the Tesla Model S and BMW i3, the Kia Soul EV (when slipped into B position) provides one-pedal driving. Lifting my foot off the accelerator pedal, the car came quickly to a stop without touching the brake. In this regenerative braking action, the motor-turned-generator does the work of slowing down the vehicle as it recaptures kinetic energy and charges the battery pack.

Rather than switching back and forth between the right and left pedals, I pushed or slightly relaxed my foot on the accelerator to keep pace with traffic. One-pedal driving is a kick, but its purpose is to conserve battery power and increase range.

Kia also provides drivers a smart set of E.V. dashboard screens, the best in the class from my perspective. The display shows a remaining range estimate, a list of the five closest charging stations that refreshes on the go and most important, the battery’s state of charge...
 
edatoakrun said:
The real problem with Kia's cautious approach may be in how well the Soul EV compares to the LEAF gen 2, when it hits the market (my guess) in the next one-to-two years.
Definitely not one - more like 2 to 3 years (2016 or 17).

But, if LG is making those batteries, almost any OEM can get hold of them. Esp. Korean ones like Kia, may even get the batteries for less. They can all make 150+ range EVs, just like they make 70+ mile EVs now.

What Nissan will have over others is a more committed dealer base and ofcourse committed leadership.
 
Test drove the Soul EV base and + at Kia Sherman Oaks today. Warm day in the Valley gave a chance to try out the cooled seats in the + that worked better than expected. Only 1” longer than our Fit EV, but roomier with upgraded interior. “B” mode allowed A pedal driving, and dealer had installed DCQC to keep things rolling. Quiet ride, intuitive controls. A very comfortable cruiser.
 
TomT said:
The Leaf is still mostly a pain in the ass to a large percentage of Nissan dealers so I'd call that statement in to question...

evnow said:
What Nissan will have over others is a more committed dealer base

that very general statement can EASILY apply to any low profit vehicle by any manufacturer. We had Fiestas on the lot that we "displayed." other than graduation week, I don't think we sold any...
 
True, but the net effect is still the same. Plus, many Nissan dealers are even less inclined to sell the Leaf because they know they will receive next to no service income from it...

DaveinOlyWA said:
TomT said:
The Leaf is still mostly a pain in the ass to a large percentage of Nissan dealers so I'd call that statement in to question...
evnow said:
What Nissan will have over others is a more committed dealer base
that very general statement can EASILY apply to any low profit vehicle by any manufacturer. We had Fiestas on the lot that we "displayed." other than graduation week, I don't think we sold any...
 
"True, but the net effect is still the same. Plus, many Nissan dealers are even less inclined to see the Leaf because they know they will receive next to no service income from it..."

Right, but that'll be case for any auto dealer where the majority of sales are ICE vehicles unless the
dealer is motivated at the vehicle sale for the potential future loss in service, which will be difficult.
 
TomT said:
The Leaf is still mostly a pain in the ass to a large percentage of Nissan dealers so I'd call that statement in to question...
But in a large number of markets we have atleast some dealers very interested in selling Leafs. Can't say the same for Ford & FFE.

Plus, many Nissan dealers are even less inclined to sell the Leaf because they know they will receive next to no service income from it...
This is an urban myth. New Toyotas, for eg., hardly ever need any service - and by the time any service is needed they will be taken to an independent auto shop.

Then there are yearly battery checks and periodic software updates for the dealer to get money on.
 
The oil changes and routine service that they still all require generates more income then that generated by the Leaf...

evnow said:
This is an urban myth. New Toyotas, for eg., hardly ever need any service - and by the time any service is needed they will be taken to an independent auto shop.
 
Typical costs for regular service at the dealer, on an ICE is about equal or more than the cost of electricity to drive an typical EV. That is about 3-3.5¢ / mile for regular maintenance.
 
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