Official BMW i3 thread

[GRA]

Given that BMW designed REx with BEVx rules in mind - it is mind boggling that REx doesn't qualif for BEVx. How does something like that happen ?

Maybe like GM, which didn't have enough time to qualify the whole emissions package on the Volt to meet the AT-PHEV 10 year/150,000 mile requirement for the 2011 model year. But that's really going to put a damper on i3 sales in CA, although assuming that they don't later qualify for the white sticker it may allow BMW to provide the 'Hold' mode that many owners want, to make the car more useful.

 

[Valdemar]

But that's really going to put a damper on i3 sales in C..

This may actually work out well for some as dealers will be more willing to deal...

 

[kmp647]

anyone take a look at the Leasing info posted for the I3 ?
BMW is NOT giving the customer the full 7,500 credit towards cap costs on a lease?
only giving about half?


I think this will go badly for BMW, lots of cars sold by nissan and others giving the full credit and a relatively savy buyer will figure out what BMW is doing....




this will not push any volume into I3 sales at all

 

[kmp647]

can some of the finance and leasing people here explain this tidbit I found on BMW usa website in the finance section for I cars , curious indeed that the Flex ammount limit is .... $7,500 ta da

OWNERSCHOICE WITH FLEX
OwnersChoice with Flex is designed to further lower the monthly payments for your BMW i.3
Here's how OwnersChoice with Flex works: We will increase your final balloon payment due at the end of your OwnersChoice BMW i contract term by up to $7,500.4 The increased final balloon payment reduces the amount of your regular monthly payments, and at the end of your contract term, you will owe the increased balloon payment amount.

As with our regular OwnersChoice product, at the end of your contract term, you have the option to sell your BMW i back to us for the predetermined price and walkaway.5 If you choose to sell your BMW i back to us, you will also owe the Flex amount (which is the amount by which we increased the balloon).6

Alternatively, as with our regular OwnersChoice product, you may choose to keep your BMW i by paying the final balloon payment amount in full at the end of your contract term — or, you may be eligible to refinance the final balloon payment amount through BMW Financial Services.7

At your option, you may choose to make prepayments during your contract term that will reduce the balloon payment amount. The sooner you choose to prepay and reduce the balloon payment amount, the lesser finance charges you will owe.
so when you lease you are not eligible for th fed rebate , BMW takes $2600 of it , then you get to pay an extra $7500 on top of the residual at the end of the lease
wow! what a plan

 

[LeftieBiker]

At the end of a lease, you have two options: buy the car, or turn it in. They are offering to give you a lower monthly payment in return for what amounts to a second down payment ("end payment"?) that is due at lease end regardless of which action you take. Balloon payments are really only a good idea if you know for certain you will have much more money then than you do now and for the immediate future. You should look into what happens if a leased BMW is wrecked and totaled: if you don't get a new car to lease from the insurance settlement, then this, like having a substantial down payment, is a bad idea.

 

[Bicster]

I think the extra $7500 balloon is perfectly fine. If you can't plan to have that money around, then pay the balloon early as an "extra prinicipal payment" after you get your tax refund that includes the $7500 credit.

I guess you won't get the tax advantages of leasing if you choose the balloon loan option, but you'd still come out ahead.

Another advantage of the balloon loan over leasing, is that any additional money you put down should come back to you in the event of a total loss, whereas in a lease, the leasing company keeps it. (I'm not sure about this, so if anyone can confirm one way or the other ...)

 

[TomT]

They just drove a stake through the heart of the I3...

What I haven't seen is a description of why it no longer qualifies... (Personally, I think the whole scheme was a scam and never should have been approved in the first place...)

Ouch

http://www.thestreet.com/story/12221040/2/bmw-suffers-big-setback-against-tesla-in-california.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

No white sticker for you.

 

[TomT]

I hope not. Personally, I believe the green stickers are also a scam and never should have been issued. If it has an ICE and has only one occupant, it should not be in the HOV.

We'll see, folks at GM/Ford may be able to find strings to pull for more green stickers to be printed.

 

[kikbuti]

can some of the finance and leasing people here explain this tidbit I found on BMW usa website in the finance section for I cars , curious indeed that the Flex ammount limit is .... $7,500 ta da

OWNERSCHOICE WITH FLEX
OwnersChoice with Flex is designed to further lower the monthly payments for your BMW i.3
At your option, you may choose to make prepayments during your contract term that will reduce the balloon payment amount. The sooner you choose to prepay and reduce the balloon payment amount, the lesser finance charges you will owe.
so when you lease you are not eligible for th fed rebate , BMW takes $2600 of it , then you get to pay an extra $7500 on top of the residual at the end of the lease
wow! what a plan

Important to know that ownerschoice is NOT a lease. With a lease, your rent the vehicle. Lease payment includes interest on the cap cost and interest on the future value (residual), plus a depreciation payment. The lender could and should reduce the cap cost by the $7500 tax credit.
Ownerschoice is a loan with a balloon payment at the end. The balloon is set at the residual value which is guaranteed. You can turn it in and get the residual value and owe nothing. BMW will allow you to increase residual by up to 7500. This assumes that you will get tax credit since you are the owner of the vehicle and want to apply the tax credit to the balloon balance that you will owe. If you decide to turn it in, you would owe 7500 more than the guaranteed residual. You should have a 7500 tax credit to pay for it.

 

[TomT]

I've always been a big BMW fan (I've owned three) but with all the recent revelations, and my recent extended test drive day, I think the i3 is now officially off my radar.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Important to know that ownerschoice is NOT a lease. With a lease, your rent the vehicle. Lease payment includes interest on the cap cost and interest on the future value (residual), plus a depreciation payment. The lender could and should reduce the cap cost by the $7500 tax credit.
Ownerschoice is a loan with a balloon payment at the end. The balloon is set at the residual value which is guaranteed. You can turn it in and get the residual value and owe nothing. BMW will allow you to increase residual by up to 7500. This assumes that you will get tax credit since you are the owner of the vehicle and want to apply the tax credit to the balloon balance that you will owe. If you decide to turn it in, you would owe 7500 more than the guaranteed residual. You should have a 7500 tax credit to pay for it.

Interesting. Sounds like it works very similar to a lease, but you actually take title to the car, unlike a lease.

BTW, when you say "BMW will allow you to increase residual by up to 7500" do you really mean increase the balloon payment by 7500? (hence further lowering the payments, since you are reducing the amount you are amortizing)

 

[davewill]

Important to know that ownerschoice is NOT a lease. With a lease, your rent the vehicle. Lease payment includes interest on the cap cost and interest on the future value (residual), plus a depreciation payment. The lender could and should reduce the cap cost by the $7500 tax credit.
Ownerschoice is a loan with a balloon payment at the end. The balloon is set at the residual value which is guaranteed. You can turn it in and get the residual value and owe nothing. BMW will allow you to increase residual by up to 7500. This assumes that you will get tax credit since you are the owner of the vehicle and want to apply the tax credit to the balloon balance that you will owe. If you decide to turn it in, you would owe 7500 more than the guaranteed residual. You should have a 7500 tax credit to pay for it.

It actually sounds clever. You get payments as if you had the $7500 tax credit already, but don't have to cough it up until well after you file for it...or you can simply buy the car normally (not increase the residual) and simply pocket the tax credit.

 

[Boomer23]

Important to know that ownerschoice is NOT a lease. With a lease, your rent the vehicle. Lease payment includes interest on the cap cost and interest on the future value (residual), plus a depreciation payment. The lender could and should reduce the cap cost by the $7500 tax credit.
Ownerschoice is a loan with a balloon payment at the end. The balloon is set at the residual value which is guaranteed. You can turn it in and get the residual value and owe nothing. BMW will allow you to increase residual by up to 7500. This assumes that you will get tax credit since you are the owner of the vehicle and want to apply the tax credit to the balloon balance that you will owe. If you decide to turn it in, you would owe 7500 more than the guaranteed residual. You should have a 7500 tax credit to pay for it.

It actually sounds clever. You get payments as if you had the $7500 tax credit already, but don't have to cough it up until well after you file for it...or you can simply buy the car normally (not increase the residual) and simply pocket the tax credit.

I think that you would pay finance charges on the $7500 because BMW is loaning you that money until you pay it back as a balloon payment. You can pay it off at any time, like after you receive your tax credit. I read that you would save some money the sooner you pay it off, so clearly, and not surprisingly, it is a loan.

 

[kmp647]

have all the issues been cleared up with filing the forms for the $7,500 federal rebate?
I remember when the Leaf 1st came out and some people purchased instead of leasing , then when they did taxes they had a terrible time with the IRS
the forms # for eV rebate and some type of mortage rebate were similar , and several people had to fight for the money ........ 8696 8969 or something


is that still going on ? its one of the reasons I leased, last thing I need is a PITA tax ev refund screwing things up on my return

 

[davewill]

I think that you would pay finance charges on the $7500 because BMW is loaning you that money until you pay it back as a balloon payment. You can pay it off at any time, like after you receive your tax credit. I read that you would save some money the sooner you pay it off, so clearly, and not surprisingly, it is a loan.

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch...but the payments would still be lower since you aren't paying that part of the principal.

 

[Elephanthead]

So if I turn on the gasoline charger when I leave my garage with full charge, and let's say I have replaced the gas tank with one that is normal sized, how long until I am dead on the side of the road with one of these? Someone needs to find out. I guess at 70 mph with the gas charger running what is the depletion rate?

 

[Boomer23]

So if I turn on the gasoline charger when I leave my garage with full charge, and let's say I have replaced the gas tank with one that is normal sized, how long until I am dead on the side of the road with one of these? Someone needs to find out. I guess at 70 mph with the gas charger running what is the depletion rate?

I'm not sure where to begin...

OK, with the supplied 9 liter gas tank on the REx model, the car is supposed to get about 60 or 70 miles on gas. So maybe 30 to 35 mpg on gas.

BUT, as it is currently set up, in the US version you can't even turn on the gas burner until battery charge is down to about 5%, so you can't turn it on with a full charge as you leave your garage. Reason: CARB wants you to burn electrons, not oil. In Europe, you can turn on the gas engine at something like 80% charge or below.

As for adding a bigger gas tank, it depends on the strength of your death wish. There's no place to put one, and if you tried, it wouldn't be in a crash-protected space, so you'd be driving a car fire waiting to happen. Also, the extra weight of the tank and the gas would drastically lower your MPG.

You're way better off with a Volt, if those are your needs. And the Volt would cost $10k less, similarly equipped.

 

[UBUYGAS]

I bought my 2013SL, I was at my accountant's office the other day and she said WOW that was so easy, she just clicked some button it asked which EV I bought and it automatically filled out $7500 rebate off of my taxes I owed to the IRS.

have all the issues been cleared up with filing the forms for the $7,500 federal rebate?
I remember when the Leaf 1st came out and some people purchased instead of leasing , then when they did taxes they had a terrible time with the IRS
the forms # for eV rebate and some type of mortage rebate were similar , and several people had to fight for the money ........ 8696 8969 or something


is that still going on ? its one of the reasons I leased, last thing I need is a PITA tax ev refund screwing things up on my return

 

[evnow]

People are reporting shockingly high lease rates for i3.

$855 before tax for a $51k i3, for eg.

At these rates, there will not a large number of takers - just the initial enthusiasts.

 

[Stoaty]

People are reporting shockingly high lease rates for i3.

$855 before tax for a $51k i3, for eg.

That would be $30,800 for a 36 month lease... unless there is also a down payment.