Official BMW i3 thread

[evnow]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXZU5UxGmnQ[/youtube]

LOL. Do these designers ever park in "normal" spots and test how their ideas "work" ?

There is a reason 99% of cars have the doors they have now.

 

[Boomer23]

"Stew-pid doors" video

Nicely demonstrated.

 

[Boomer23]

After watching that video several times, I have found a solution!

Step 1: Driver or front passenger exits car, leaving front door open and walks away from car, probably to the rear
Step 2: Rear passenger opens rear door
Step 3: Rear passenger exits car, standing in the trapezoidal space formed by the doors, the car and the neighboring car or wall, fence or other obstacle
Step 4: Rear passenger sits down in front seat :shock:
Step 5: Passenger (who was once rear passenger, and now is front passenger) reaches back and closes rear door
Step 6: Passenger (who was once...yada, yada) exits car a second time and either walks to the rear of car or steps back to allow closing of front door and exits to the front of car

Simple six step plan. No problem!

 

[GRA]

So, let's see - the i3 isn't for use by people with dogs (fixed rear windows), small children (bad access) or those who might want to take themselves, one or more friends and some bikes, skis or what have you to some regional recreation venue for the day (say the 50-odd miles to Marin county from my place to ride our bikes). And all for a starting price of just $41,350. This seems like it should be followed by "But wait, there's more!"

Of course, presumably you could use one of those rear window bike mounts, but they are insecure compared to a trailer hitch rack, and may damage your weatherstripping, paint or bodywork.

I have a friend who owns a 2007 Element, and the only time I rode in it with someone in the back I was nearly garroted when they opened the back door, as it hadn't occurred to me that I needed to unfasten my seatbelt first. The change to mounting the seatbelt upper anchor on the front seat in the 2008s was a huge improvement for anyone who frequently has to let people in/out of the back, and it's incredible to me that BMW should make the same mistake. The Element was never really intended to be a mommy-mobile, but the i3 will presumably be used for hauling kids around fairly regularly.

 

[evnow]

I guess i3 is to used with people with kids, who are old enough to get out themselves. But needing to open the front door first and unfasten the belt, makes it almost as bad as a 2 door car.

Come to think of it - i3 should be viewed as somewhat more practical than a 2 door car - rather than an impractical 4 door car. If you can live with a 2 door car, i3 will suit you fine.

 

[johnqh]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXZU5UxGmnQ[/youtube]

LOL. Do these designers ever park in "normal" spots and test how their ideas "work" ?

There is a reason 99% of cars have the doors they have now.

I had an Honda Element with the same type of doors.

Yes, in tight parking space, it sucked.

However, for 99% of the usage, there is no question in my mind that the"suicide" door is better. It's easier to get in and out for the back seat passengers. It's easier to load stuff. It's easier to clean the interior.

You can visit the element forums and ask people's opinions yourself.

Yes, the door is a plus in my mind. I only hope it had five seats instead of four. The lack of the fifth seat is the major reason we sold the Element.

 

[johnqh]

I guess i3 is to used with people with kids, who are old enough to get out themselves. But needing to open the front door first and unfasten the belt, makes it almost as bad as a 2 door car.

Come to think of it - i3 should be viewed as somewhat more practical than a 2 door car - rather than an impractical 4 door car. If you can live with a 2 door car, i3 will suit you fine.

Not really.

Again, speaking from my experience with Element, it is extremely easy to unbutton the kid from the child seat without the B pillar in the way. Essentially you are operating from the 45 degree front instead of the side.

On the other hand, we had to switch when the kid is older and have more play dates. The fifth seat was badly needed.

 

[derkraut]

After watching that video several times, I have found a solution!

Step 1: Driver or front passenger exits car, leaving front door open and walks away from car, probably to the rear
Step 2: Rear passenger opens rear door
Step 3: Rear passenger exits car, standing in the trapezoidal space formed by the doors, the car and the neighboring car or wall, fence or other obstacle
Step 4: Rear passenger sits down in front seat :shock:
Step 5: Passenger (who was once rear passenger, and now is front passenger) reaches back and closes rear door
Step 6: Passenger (who was once...yada, yada) exits car a second time and either walks to the rear of car or steps back to allow closing of front door and exits to the front of car

Simple six step plan. No problem!

Brilliant, Boomer--Brilliant! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[evnow]

Again, speaking from my experience with Element, it is extremely easy to unbutton the kid from the child seat without the B pillar in the way. Essentially you are operating from the 45 degree front instead of the side.

I'm sure it is easier to unbutton. But what do you do after that ? How do you get out.

ps : Atleast here, compact parking lots are the norm, as are crowded parking lots. Not the 1% exception.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Discuss....

“I’d just come through a heavy but localised rain storm on the M20 when the i3 started to slow. It was a gradual process, from motorway cruising speed all the way down to 44mph. By this time I was travelling up a slight incline and had effectively become a slow-moving obstacle. Lorries were catching me with quite frankly terrifying closing speeds. It was three or four minutes - which was long enough to make me consider pulling over – before the i3 recovered; just as slowly as it had lost speed, so it crept up.”

It sounds like the 650cc motorcycle engine really does have it's work cut out for it.

http://insideevs.com/video-review-bmw-with-range-extender-a-big-step-forward-but-not-five-stars/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[surfingslovak]

Discuss....

We have been through this exercise before. When we hear “motorcycle engine”, that does not necessarily translate to subpar performance. First of all, BMW has derated the engine from about 65 hp to 35 hp for REx use. Secondly, about 25 kW should be enough to propel the i3 at 75 mph on flat terrain. This is based on real-world data from the LEAF, which should have comparable energy efficiency.

As I noted in a discussion elsewhere, the problem Chris faced was that the let the battery run down to 5%, consistently drove over 70 mph on the freeway the entire time, and then hit a hill, where the vehicle then had to slow down to account for higher instantaneous power demand and near-zero energy reserves in the battery.

I think we can thank CARB for that. The BEVx rule BMW chose to follow dictates that the battery must be depleted first, and before the REx can be engaged. One common assumption in the recent past was that the REx will come on at about 20% battery SOC, just like what we saw with the Volt. This would have been enough to traverse about 4,000 feet of elevation, which would have been plenty for Chris on the motorway enroute to London.

It’s worth noting that the BEVx regulation did not exist when the Volt was designed. The benefit of following this rule is that the vehicle will be recognized as a full electric car, even though it carries a range extender onboard.

 

[user 10599]

I saw this car at the LA Auto Show. I was rather disappointed.

I think it is mis-branded. It's labeled as a BMW, but to me it looks like it clearly was designed by their Mini division. For most, that probably is fine. I'm just not fond of the Mini/Fiat/Kia-hamster styling. If it was more like the other BMWs, I think I would have been interested. I loved the look of the i8, but I understand that's a hybrid, not an EV.

 

[surfingslovak]

I loved the look of the i8, but I understand that's a hybrid, not an EV.

The i8 has a 10 kWh battery, if memory serves, and can run in EV-mode only. Otherwise, it's a parallel hybrid, which frequently shuts off its gasoline engine. The idea is to provide the performance of a Porsche, but the fuel economy of a Prius. I was able to sit in the cockpit and have some photos to share, if it was of interest. ChadS commented on the Tesla forum that the i3 was likely deliberately designed to look different than the other BMW offerings. Presumably, to aim at conquest buyers, and avoid cannibalizing the revenue the other products provide.

While I cannot comment, it sounds like a plausible explanation. Personally, I think that the i3 was designed to fit European styling sensibilities and the pure electric version will prove to be quite popular there. It's worth noting that the Golf, a bona-fide hatchback, has been a best-seller in Germany for more than a generation. In the US, the top-selling spot has been held by a sedan for as long as I can remember. This is another aspect, which plays into Volt's favor in the US, I believe.

I would be surprised to hear that the styling if the i3 was designed with US consumers in mind. The reaction is much more positive when interacting with European prospects.

 

[JeremyW]

Secondly, about 25 kW should be enough to propel the i3 at 75 mph on flat terrain

But probably not at any sort of incline. I think 5% is just too close to 0 for such a low power REx. CARB ruling or not Chris' problems can easily happen in the real world, and without a SOC gauge how would one know exactly when to fire it up to provide adequate reserves? Think if you had to drive a leaf with just two bubbles of power near turtle.

I think this is a bad design, and I predict it won't go over well for BMW in real-world usage. These limitations are NOT something I'd expect from "the ultimate driving machine."

 

[surfingslovak]

It’s been known all along that the REx can sustain 75 mph on flat terrain. If the battery was depleted, the i3 will have to slow down on inclines. I believe that I calculated about 40 or 45 mph on 6% grades. Not great, but not disastrous either. The new aspect here is that the i3 will run down the battery to 5% SOC. Was it allowed to engage the REx at about 20%, then the car could continue at 75 mph and traverse about 4,000 feet of elevation. This will unfortunately not be possible with the US version, at least not without some hacking.

It looks like the owner should quick charge before going to the mountains. In the UK, the driver should engage the REx manually, as Chris was advised as well. It’s worth noting that Chris essentially brodered the i3. He ran it into the ground on purpose, and it’s been assumed from the video footage that he went over the legal speed limit to do it. I would not be surprised if he had read up on prior discussions, and knew that if he drove the i3 close to 75 mph all the time, it would not be able to store any energy away. This is an extreme case, and done deliberately. While Mr. Knapman was not satisfied with the performance in range-extended mode, at least he did not end up on a tow truck, which is a feat Mr. Broder achieved when test-driving the Model S.

Yes, this is a design limitation, and we all can thank CARB for coming up with these rules. As a result, trips to Tahoe won’t be possible from the Bay Area without quick charging at least once.

 

[jhm614]

I was able to sit in the cockpit and have some photos to share, if it was of interest.

Post when ready, Gridley. What did you think?

 

[JeremyW]

As I noted in a discussion elsewhere, the problem Chris faced was that the let the battery run down to 5%, consistently drove over 70 mph on the freeway the entire time, and then hit a hill, where the vehicle then had to slow down to account for higher instantaneous power demand and near-zero energy reserves in the battery.

Unlike Broder I consider Chris's requests from the car reasonable. I find the US limitation to be unacceptable. 5% is not a safe margin.

 

[TomT]

BMW made the choice to design and classify it as a pure EV with a Rex rather than a PHEV, and that is the price that they pay for that... They could have elected to go a different direction but they did not. Blaming the CARB is disingenuous I believe...

Yes, this is a design limitation, and we all can thank CARB for coming up with these rules. As a result, trips to Tahoe won’t be possible from the Bay Area without quick charging at least once.

 

[evnow]

I guess not meant for > 70 mph driving all the time - esp. if we can't engage the REx early.

 

[johnqh]

Again, speaking from my experience with Element, it is extremely easy to unbutton the kid from the child seat without the B pillar in the way. Essentially you are operating from the 45 degree front instead of the side.

I'm sure it is easier to unbutton. But what do you do after that ? How do you get out.

ps : Atleast here, compact parking lots are the norm, as are crowded parking lots. Not the 1% exception.

Again, I am speaking from real experience with Element.

Both doors open. Get out of the car and move to the front. Close the back door. Move out. Close the front door.

The worst case, flip the front seat forward and let the kid out of the front door with the back door closed.

If the space is enough for a regular 4-door sedan, it is enough for Element. If the parking is difficult for Element, it will be more easier to get out of a sedan, but much more difficult to unbutton the kid since you are essentially from from behind.

Keep an open mind. If you can deal with the "inconvenience" of EV, the door is really a non-issue.