Official BMW i3 thread

[TRONZ]

It does make you wonder if manufacturers might cover all their bases by offering cars with multiple QC ports. Might be mentioned elsewhere. But current strategies do not seem to be interested in the inclusive path, even when doing this could add tremendous value/range security to selected models. Offering a well thought out set of charging ports under one cover would add some $ but be a profound tactical advantage against those trying to push the format war. Each standard owner might try to gouge the other on licensing but thats a zero-sum game in the end.

 

[edatoakrun]

Article and video of a BEVx test drive.

IMO, the description of the ICE use is disturbing.

If we are restricted to the same "five or six per cent" SOC engine start point due to CARB regulations, then the i3 BEVx driver will encounter the "limp" mode far more often than earlier descriptions of the ICE use (at ~20% SOC, IIRC) suggested.

However, it sounds like (at least in Euro-spec) the driver has the option of starting up the ICE at higher SOC.

...I’d just come through a heavy but localised rain storm on the M20 when the i3 started to slow. It was a gradual process, from motorway cruising speed all the way down to 44mph. By this time I was travelling up a slight incline and had effectively become a slow-moving obstacle. Lorries were catching me with quite frankly terrifying closing speeds. It was three or four minutes - which was long enough to make me consider pulling over - before the i3 recovered; just as slowly as it had lost speed, so it crept up.

“It’s not a limp-home mode as such,” a BMW spokesman later told me, “but once the charge runs down to five or six per cent and the range extender cuts in, if you keep driving at 75-80mph it can’t maintain the charge.” Rather than damage the battery by running it completely flat, the i3 had restricted our performance.

What I should have done, it transpired, was engange the range extender when there was still 30-40 per cent charge in the battery. Still, the car had covered my mistake, albeit in a slightly alarming fashion, and the remainder of our journey back into London went without a hitch (save needing to add another 7.5 litres of petrol).

Putting aside the loss of power, the i3 was a delight to drive...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/bmw/10440292/BMW-i3-Range-Extender-review.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[scottf200]

"75-80mph" but I wonder if at 65mph the driver would not notice a change. That would be very reasonable.

Article and video of a BEVx test drive.
IMO, the description of the ICE use is disturbing.
If we are restricted to the same "five or six per cent" SOC engine start point due to CARB regulations, then the i3 BEVx driver will encounter the "limp" mode far more often than earlier descriptions of the ICE use (at ~20% SOC, IIRC) suggested.

...I’d just come through a heavy but localised rain storm on the M20 when the i3 started to slow. It was a gradual process, from motorway cruising speed all the way down to 44mph. By this time I was travelling up a slight incline and had effectively become a slow-moving obstacle. Lorries were catching me with quite frankly terrifying closing speeds. It was three or four minutes - which was long enough to make me consider pulling over - before the i3 recovered; just as slowly as it had lost speed, so it crept up.

“It’s not a limp-home mode as such,” a BMW spokesman later told me, “but once the charge runs down to five or six per cent and the range extender cuts in, if you keep driving at 75-80mph it can’t maintain the charge.” Rather than damage the battery by running it completely flat, the i3 had restricted our performance.

What I should have done, it transpired, was engange the range extender when there was still 30-40 per cent charge in the battery. Still, the car had covered my mistake, albeit in a slightly alarming fashion, and the remainder of our journey back into London went without a hitch (save needing to add another 7.5 litres of petrol).

Putting aside the loss of power, the i3 was a delight to drive...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/bmw/10440292/BMW-i3-Range-Extender-review.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[surfingslovak]

Article and video of a BEVx test drive.

IMO, the description of the ICE use is disturbing.

It's worth noting that the Chris Knapman was going 73 mph in the video segment posted on the Telegraph website. According to the calculations done previously, assuming 25 kW output, the REx can meet the instantaneous power demand at that speed, but just barely. Not much will go back into the battery. If the pack has been depleted to 5%, then the i3 won't be able to maintain 73 mph when going uphill on the freeway.

I would have expected the REx to engage at 18% or 20% SOC, like what we see with the Volt, but perhaps it's a manual override. As Tom already mentioned, in Europe the minimum SOC for REx operation will likely be higher. 80% is what I've heard from a number of sources. Would anyone know what the grade was on the incline Chris Knapman was traversing on his way back to London?

Chris said that the i3 only went 65 miles before the REx came on. I looked up the range Tony measured for the LEAF, and at 75 mph, that EV is expected to travel 62 miles before the battery is nearly empty (~ 2% SOC remaining). Assuming that Chris was traveling about 75 mph on the motorway, just like the video segment he posted implied, then this would be a very close match in terms of the range.

I always thought that the i3 and the LEAF will end up being very comparable in this regard. The i3 has 10% less usable battery capacity, but is likely more efficient. The aerodynamic coefficient of drag is very comparable to the LEAF, which means that we will likely see similar impact of speed on range.

 

[mwalsh]

I'm driving tomorrow. I've been told that cornering might be an issue, and have promised to throw the car into corners without any concern for my own safety, wet or dry (and the forecast is saying 60% chance of it being wet).

 

[surfingslovak]

I'm driving tomorrow. I've been told that cornering might be an issue, and have promised to throw the car into corners without any concern for my own safety, wet or dry (and the forecast is saying 60% chance of it being wet).

We will be there also, Mike. Look forward to meeting you in person!

 

[Boomer23]

I'm driving tomorrow. I've been told that cornering might be an issue, and have promised to throw the car into corners without any concern for my own safety, wet or dry (and the forecast is saying 60% chance of it being wet).

We will be there also, Mike. Look forward to meeting you in person!

I'll be joining surfingslovak at the 3 pm BMW event, Mike. Hopefully we'll see you.

 

[mwalsh]

Well, I have a 1:30 press slot. And I have a 3:00-4:00 Electronaut slot (the latter being a cheeky bluff from before I found out about the available press slots). So if I show up at 3pm, I'll be playing it by ear as to how busy it is. Too busy and I'll hang but not drive (assuming they don't send me on my way without even giving me either option).

 

[jhm614]

Well, I have a 1:30 press slot.

Well, how was it???

 

[mwalsh]

Don't like typing a lot on an ipad. Will post about it when I'm at a keyboard.

 

[evnow]

It's worth noting that the Chris Knapman was going 73 mph in the video segment posted on the Telegraph website. According to the calculations done previously, assuming 25 kW output, the REx can meet the instantaneous power demand at that speed, but just barely. Not much will go back into the battery. If the pack has been depleted to 5%, then the i3 won't be able to maintain 73 mph when going uphill on the freeway.

One thing to note is even the slightest of inclines/declines can make a big difference in power consumption at high speeds. Who knows whether that highway is perfectly flat ?

 

[surfingslovak]

One thing to note is even the slightest of inclines/declines can make a big difference in power consumption at high speeds. Who knows whether that highway is perfectly flat ?

I agree, and I believe that I know how to calculate and reflect that higher energy consumption in the maximum sustainable speed. I did not have time to review the topography, and that's why I asked this question here and on Facebook. As I already pointed out, I think that the problem Chris has experienced was related to his driving speed of 75 mph, which does not allow for much excess energy to be stored in the battery. Additionally, the REx did not automatically engage at 20% SOC remaining, which was the previous assumption based on media reports. Based on what I learned yesterday, I'm confident that the REx can sustain and facilitate long-range travel, and I think that's what you will hear and see in other reports.

 

[TomT]

I would love to be able to like the i3 and consider it but so far, there are just too many things about it that make that impossible...

 

[Boomer23]

I'll wait for Mike to post his comments so as not to steal his thunder, but I also drove the car yesterday, and it has some compelling advantages and some real peculiarities.

But anyone in So Cal who is at all interested in the car, get down to the LA Auto Show and drive the i3 yourselves! You have an amazing opportunity because this is one of only two opportunities any time soon to drive the car in the US, and the other will be on the east coast.

They have about 70 identical, BEV-only, solar Orange i3s set up for test drives throughout the show, which ends Sunday, Dec 1. The way that BMW has the test drives set up is way more impressive than any auto show test drive that I've ever seen. Rather than a parade of test cars going 10 mph in a series of right turns around a building, BMW has you driving several miles in varying, real world traffic, with the ability to test acceleration, braking, turning circle diameter, and other real world usual driving behaviors in traffic. I'm not positive whether they allow everyone to drive the same distances without a BMW staffer on board, but my guess is that they do. The BMW Experience tent is set up across the street from Staples Center in Lot 6. I'm not sure whether you have to show an Auto Show ticket to enter the drive event, but that might not even be required.

Truly, if you're interested in this car, go drive it.

 

[JeremyW]

It's as fun to drive as it is ugly on the outside.

The car is extremely light and nimble, we (me and two active e drivers) could not get the tires to squeak even with the traction control off. The tires are extremely narrow and probably really really expensive but they do their job very well. They were pumped to 43 PSI or so (yes you can see all 4 tire pressures). You feel as though all the weight of the car is down very very low. Makes for a very stable platform... probably the lowest center of gravity of any car I've ever driven, noticeably lower than the leaf. Off the line acceleration is good, the motor really "digs in" after 25 mph and just keeps going. The regen is nice and strong, just like EV drivers want it, but it is not adjustable. For something that's this strong of regen, I'd really like the option of toning it down when on the highway.

In talking with an engineer from BMW there are no roof rack points or trailer hitch points to work with. This may be a deal breaker for some. I found his response of "well its not needed for a city car" to be particularly amusing.

I really liked the interior of the car which in this case had "open pore eucalyptus" and black leather. There are carbon fiber "scraps" used for part of the dash and door panels and I actually like the speckled look that it gives. The nav screen is very nice and has good graphics except that it shows where every gas station is on the map. Since this is the non-REx version, I find that totally unacceptable. I also find the lack of an SOC gauge unacceptable.

My biggest deal breaker is of course the pack size. I just don't see it going that much further than the leaf. In city driving, sure, but where I need the range is high speed highway where I doubt we'll see good numbers. It just doesn't have the aerodynamics for that.

I think it's a good first start for BMW, however I'm seeing mistakes that were/are similar to Nissan's. I find that disheartening considering they had two prototype programs before the i3.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

I also find the lack of an SOC gauge unacceptable.
...
I think it's a good first start for BMW, however I'm seeing mistakes that were/are similar to Nissan's. I find that disheartening considering they had two prototype programs before the i3.

What do you mean no SOC gauge? There must be something to indicate available range or battery state of charge. Are there bars, percentage or is it just estimated range?

What mistakes are you specifically referring to w Nissan that BMW is also making.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
The '11 and '12 Leaf only had the GOM, 12 "fuel bars" and estimated time to charge. There was no % SoC display anywhere. From what I'm reading (mostly elsewhere), the i3 also lacks a % SoC display.

I think the other talk is of BMW saying that they can replace individual battery modules, just like Nissan has... Of course, this does no good for those in hot climates where all the modules degrade more/less equally due to Leaf's lack of TMS.

 

[Boomer23]

I also find the lack of an SOC gauge unacceptable.
...
I think it's a good first start for BMW, however I'm seeing mistakes that were/are similar to Nissan's. I find that disheartening considering they had two prototype programs before the i3.

What do you mean no SOC gauge? There must be something to indicate available range or battery state of charge. Are there bars, percentage or is it just estimated range?

What mistakes are you specifically referring to w Nissan that BMW is also making.

The i3 on board instruments as currently configured show only a "fuel gauge" as a four-segment line that smoothly diminishes as you deplete the battery charge. By "smoothly diminishes" I mean that the four segments don't just sequentially disappear like the LEAF's 12 bars do. Each of the four segments of the i3 fuel bar shrinks in turn as you use up the charge. BUT nowhere does the car offer a numeric SOC percent display. Paradoxically, the i3 remote app DOES show an SOC percentage.

This was a point of significant discussion at a customer meeting with BMW specialists and managers in LA last Thursday. The initial response from the BMW people was that the range display is very accurate, even capable of including elevation changes in its NAV system to accurately estimate remaining range. But the customers continued to insist that not providing a numeric SOC readout is a big error. Lobbying for such a change continued after the meeting and online, and some customers got verbal feedback that this issue will be considered by the company.

 

[TomT]

SOC meters aside for the moment, this is a very important point and one that all EV manufacturers need to address: Without accurate look-ahead elevation change information, DTE meters will never be very accurate for the majority of drivers and this is something that critically needs to be included.

The initial response from the BMW people was that the range display is very accurate, even capable of including elevation changes in its NAV system to accurately estimate remaining range.

 

[TomT]

I drove the i3 twice on Friday... My overall impression of it was that it was less than I was expecting - I was disappointed - and too expensive at its price point for what you effectively get...
I had hoped for more from BMW, particularly considering how long they have been working on this, and their prior EV experience...