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I'm including this news link not so much that it offers more information elsewhere covered here on this thread but it includes a prominent photo showing the AV-branded charger ... would have loved to included one of these BMW's in my garage as I (hopefully) would already have the 'approved' charger installed but alas, Chicago isn't included in this test:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/201...ctiveE_electric_car&utm_campaign=awdailydrive
 
drees said:
Anyone know what kind of portable EVSE the BMW comes with?

None, according to my salesperson.

I did recommend the SPX unit, specifying the 32 amp version.

The 7.2kW (32amp) BLINK unit is not on the approved list, but the GE Wattstation is. I've moved on to step 3.
 
"BMW said it expects the program will generate driver data and feedback from those who use the EV in everyday conditions."
Still in data-gathering mode from 'those who use the EV in everyday conditions'?! I guess BMW didn't gather enough of this data from the previous field-tests with their Mini E's? Yawn. :roll: I guess I am just not willing to pay the auto manufacturer for the 'privilege' to field test their product.

I would love to have, and am waiting for, an 'affordable' luxury EV sedan. But this is still not enough of an improvement over my Leaf in terms of its range for the price. And, it appears they don't have enough confidence in their automobile yet to allow people to outright purchase it, whether one would want to or not.
 
TomT said:
I was told it must be 32 amps or better when I inquired...

voltcrazy said:
Tony, do you know if they will accept a 16-amp EVSE, like an upgraded unit from evseupgrade.com?

So I assume that the Nissan/AV EVSE on a 40 amp circuit is fine, right, even though it can't pull 7.2 kW?
 
And I would have to assume that my Blink, while not on the "approved" list,
- Would charge the car anyway
- Can supply 7.2 kW, being rated at 30A * 240V
- and, if it couldn't, that the hopes, dreams, royalties, and Nobel prizes that went into the J1772 pilot signal would prevent either the car or the EVSE from exploding in a ball of flames, and they would charge at whatever rate they could agree on.
 
TomT said:
I was told it must be 32 amps or better when I inquired...
32 amps? Every one of the new J1772 cable sets I have encountered have been 30 amps or less and supposedly this was a result of UL failing the cable set at 32 amps but passing it at 30 amps.
TonyWilliams said:
The 7.2kW (32amp) BLINK unit is not on the approved list, but the GE Wattstation is. I've moved on to step 3.
I find it funny the Blink is not on the approved list :) I would not "approve" it either :D
 
Yep, I even pointed out that 30 amps times 240 volts is 7.2Kw but they insisted it had to be 32 amps... Of course, it could just be that their CS reps are as bad as Nissan's...

Spies said:
TomT said:
I was told it must be 32 amps or better when I inquired...
32 amps? Every one of the new J1772 cable sets I have encountered have been 30 amps or less and supposedly this was a result of UL failing the cable set at 32 amps but passing it at 30 amps.
 
Boomer23 said:
GRA said:
Shoot, Tony, if the Beemer is going to set you back $60k, why not be a guinea pig for the Coda and keep the $20k you save to buy a Honda Fit or something similar, if the Coda falls apart and/or the company disappears? :roll:

Except that neither the Beemer nor the Honda is available to buy. They are both leases only.
I was thinking about a gas Fit (or something like a used Prius), not the electric one. The range of the Leaf seems to be a bit short for Tony, so the Fit EV won't work. OTOH, I expect the Coda could make it from S.D. to L.A. non-stop (Tony certainly could do it), and maybe even at freeway speeds depending on exactly where he started and ended.
 
GRA said:
The range of the Leaf seems to be a bit short for Tony, so the Fit EV won't work. OTOH, I expect the Coda could make it from S.D. to L.A. non-stop (Tony certainly could do it), and maybe even at freeway speeds depending on exactly where he started and ended.

I suspect that this BMW conversion will not get the same economy as the LEAF. Of course, I will find out!

If the 3300 pound LEAF pulls down 3.9miles/kWh at 60mph, then I suspect it will be maybe in the mid 3's for this 4000 pound car.

But, the battery is about 35% bigger, so maybe a 25% increase in range. The BMW salesman was telling me today all the features... ya, LEAF has that... yep, ditto on the LEAF...

I really like the LEAF, and I don't have much fondness for a 1 series BMW, but it will go further, charge twice as fast, and have a nicely appointed interior. Handle better, too.

I'm confident that the LEAF can outrun it.
 
I test drove the Leaf on Friday, after being informed that I was at Stage 3 in the process. I drove less than a mile before I decided to head back to the dealer and complete the paperwork. The Leaf is an electrical appliance, whereas the ActiveE is an electric tank.
 
I test drove the ActiveE this afternoon at Irvine BMW. Here are my impressions. Note that I drove a 2008 BMW 3 Series coupe for 3 years, ending a year ago, and I've been driving a LEAF for almost 10 months.

I found the interior comfortable for my 6 foot, 205lb bulk. The seats are manually adjusted, I assume to save both weight and cost of power seats, but I was able to find a comfortable position easily. Note that having the seats adjusted for two 6 foot or taller front seat occupants reduces the rear leg room to essentially zero. You could put child seats on the rear seats, but I wouldn't want to struggle back there to actually "insert" the children and buckle them in. The small trunk has its capacity further reduced by the intrusion of the motor and other drive components, so that the trunk space is small and awkwardly shaped. There is no pass-through that I could detect. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

As others have mentioned, (EDIT: except for the white plastic with blue "circuit" trim) the interior materials are high quality and "Germanic" feeling, which is a good thing, IMHO. The leather wrapped steering wheel alone is worth the price of admission to me. I'm not positive that the seats are leather. BMW does a really good job with "leatherette". I didn't check the sticker to see if they are real leather. Either way, the seat material is good stuff. The seats are firm and held me in place well for cornering. The shifter is similar to an automatic trans shifter, but with only three settings, R, D and N. There is an "Eco Pro" button on the shifter housing that puts the car into a similar mode to the LEAF's ECO setting, e.g. reduces acceleration at normal accelerator positions, increases regen, and probably reduces AC output.

The driving experience was really pretty exciting. I'd differ with Tony on his opinion of the relative quickness of the LEAF and the BMW. I'd say that the acceleration of the BMW is noticeably more aggressive and takes that car firmly into the fun to drive category. I mean I really had a grin on my face with the way this thing took off from a stop. I drove the same roads immediately afterward in my LEAF and the difference was significant. I think that I read that the BMW goes from 0-62 in something under 8 seconds, which would be more than a second quicker than the LEAF, and I believe it. I drove with the windows down, and the whine from the drivetrain was seriously more noticeable than that from the LEAF. Along with the extra wind noise that I think slovak mentioned, the driveline whine made the car sound like a jet engine. It was exciting, if you like that kind of thing, but certainly not relaxing. Some people think that sporty cars should make noise, and this one does, just not ICE noise. :lol:

The adjective that kept coming to mind when I drove the BMW was "tight". The handling was tight and very predictable. The steering was direct and the car goes where you point it "right now!". The suspension was tight and fairly stiff, but only in the way that all BMW sports models are, even without the Sport suspension option.

The one surprising thing, though, was that I found the strong regen to be bothersome. If you're accelerating strongly, as soon as you lift off the accelerator, you're thrown forward in your seat by the regen. I actually started to feel a bit nauseous. It wasn't as bad if you weren't driving as aggressively. I found that the secret is not to back off completely, but to hold the accelerator at just the point below where acceleration would begin. Frankly, I thought that it would be too much of a bother to drive that way, but I MIGHT get used to it. I'd really have to take several test drives and make sure that I could handle that much regen. I was even looking for a setting that would reduce the regen, but there apparently isn't one.

All in all, if the ActivE had been available a year ago, and I had to choose between it and the LEAF, I'd have chosen the BMW because it is more of a sports car and similar to my 328i. But now that I have the LEAF and I see how usable the four doors and the hatch are for family outings, it's clear that the BMW would have gotten less use than the LEAF is getting. So for me, the two represent a choice between a personal electric sports car for two people and not much luggage, or a very usable family car. And in terms of energy savings, because it gets used more than a 2 seater would, the LEAF meets my energy goals better.

EDIT: I wanted to add that I find it really hard to believe that the BMW is more energy efficient than the LEAF, just based on weight alone. I am going to be REALLY interested in seeing what real world range and energy efficiency turn out to be in the hands of drivers.

A couple other details: The BMW doesn't have a "smart fob". You have to insert the fob into a recess in the dash and then push the Start button. Also, the BMW has rear parking sensors instead of a rear monitor. I had these sensors on my BMW and I loved them. They are like radar and they show in color on the Nav screen how close you are to any obstacle. Given my experience in backing into stuff in parking lots, I need BOTH devices. ;)
 

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Tesla said:
I test drove the Leaf on Friday, after being informed that I was at Stage 3 in the process. I drove less than a mile before I decided to head back to the dealer and complete the paperwork. The Leaf is an electrical appliance, whereas the ActiveE is an electric tank.

You mean that you test drove the BMW, right?
 
TonyWilliams said:
If the 3300 pound LEAF pulls down 3.9miles/kWh at 60mph, then I suspect it will be maybe in the mid 3's for this 4000 pound car.

It should be about the same economy on a flat hwy, unless you get too aggressive on the throttle changes (eco mode should tame it).. but in the city the weight will definitely hit range. Depends also on the tires, hopefully the BMW is using LRR tires and not all-seasons.

The Volt gets 3.3m/kWh per the EPA and 6.9m/kWh per a hypermiler, its also a heavy car.
 
I just got back from the meeting at CCSE with a BMW engineer and the ActiveE on display (and for test drives in the parking lot).

First, somebody asked what the tires are; Continental "ContiProContact SSR" P205/55R16-91H, Treadwear 400, Traction AA, Temperature A.

Here's one of the Power Point slides:

Engine
Engine type: Electric
Motor type: Synchronous Motor
Output : 125 kW / 170 bhp <<--- LEAF is 80 kW
Torque from idle (Nm): 250 Nm / 184.4 ft-lbs <<-- LEAF is 280 Nm
Max RPM : 12,000 <<-- LEAF is 10,300

High Voltage Electrical System
Battery Capacity (kWh) : 32 <<--- The EPA window sticker says 33kWh
Battery System Weight : 992.1 lbs <<-- LEAF is 600 pounds
Battery Charge Time
@ 240v / 32a (7.7kW) : 4 or 5 hours <<-- LEAF is 3.3kW
Battery Design : 192 cells at 40AH <<-- LEAF is also 192 cells
Battery Cooling : Active Liquid Cooling <<--no cooling in LEAF
Peak Current : 400A

Performance Ratings
Power to Weight Ratio DIN (kg/kW) : 9.76
Acceleration 0-62mph (100km/h) : 9 seconds <<-- LEAF can do this, I think
Top Speed mph : 90 mph
Range FTP 72 : 150 miles
Operational Range : 100 miles

The car weighs 4000 pounds <<-- the LEAF is 3300

This drive train will power the i3 and i8 with a 3 cylinder gas motor.

The cars are now physically sitting in the shipping yard in Oxnard, California. All the batteries from the old MiniE's will go into a building with solar panels to power their facilities in Oxnard.
 
TonyWilliams said:
This drive train will power the i3 and i8 with a 3 cylinder gas motor.

Cool specs, thanks.


Tony, did he say that the i3 will have a range extender gas motor as standard, i.e. no BEV-only i3? And surely the i8, which is a super car, has a larger than 3 cylinder motor, no?

Also, will the i3 have the same 32 kWh pack? I had read that the projected range of the i3 was going to be 100 miles, so with much less weight and better aero, with that pack size, we'd be looking at quite a bit more range, methinks.
 
TomT said:
Spies said:
TomT said:
I was told it must be 32 amps or better when I inquired...
32 amps? Every one of the new J1772 cable sets I have encountered have been 30 amps or less and supposedly this was a result of UL failing the cable set at 32 amps but passing it at 30 amps.
Yep, I even pointed out that 30 amps times 240 volts is 7.2Kw but they insisted it had to be 32 amps... Of course, it could just be that their CS reps are as bad as Nissan's...
The GE Wattstation which Tony said is approved is only rated for 208-240V 30A on a 40A circuit...

TonyWilliams said:
First, somebody asked what the tires are; Continental "ContiProContact SSR" P205/55R16-91H, Treadwear 400, Traction AA, Temperature A.
Ouch, those tires weigh 27 lbs because they are run-flats - cost $171/ea on tirerack compared to 20 lbs and $105/ea for EP422. Of course, being able to drive 50 miles when flat at low speeds could be useful, though you'll still have to replace the tire after that. Same size as the LEAF, though.
 
Boomer23 said:
Tony, did he say that the i3 will have a range extender gas motor as standard, i.e. no BEV-only i3? And surely the i8, which is a super car, has a larger than 3 cylinder motor, no?

First, the i3 will be strictly a BEV, then offered later with a range extender gas burner. The i8 appears to be the same basic drivetrain with a pumped up motor, and range extender. I don't recall the exact power, but it wasn't in super car territory.


Also, will the i3 have the same 32 kWh pack? I had read that the projected range of the i3 was going to be 100 miles, so with much less weight and better aero, with that pack size, we'd be looking at quite a bit more range, methinks.


No, I very seriously doubt it will have a 32/33 pack. He was adamant the 100 miles was "all that was needed" based on the MiniE study. Does that remind you of Mark Perry? We gave the 100 mile cars, and nobody went over 100 miles... conclusion; nobody needs an over 100 miles car.

He did say they did a study with giving people fake money, and letting them pick from bigger batteries for range, or spending that money on something else. They bought something else.

The i3 is built a bit like the Tesla.... a rolling skate board. Then BMW plops a carbon fiber body on top (which can be any configuration, much like Tesla plans with a van, Model S, Model X, sport convertible, etc.
 
Oh, almost forgot. The BMW engineer last night told me I would "love" the herky jerky regen. 98% of MiniE drivers said it was the schizzle.

I told him I'd be the 2%.

We're about 6 weeks away from the first BMW Active E and Nissan LEAF drag race. I know everybody is on the edge of their seats !!!
 
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