NY Times: When Electric Car Owners Talk, Nissan Listens

[surfingslovak]

Hat tip to Bradley Berman for the coverage. Congratulations to Howard Clearfield, Gary Lieber, Kim Kinoshita for organizing and everyone else for a great meeting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/automobiles/nissan-is-listening-to-electric-car-owners-and-taking-notes.html?ref=automobiles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Both of these articles are excellent. The slide show has images relating to both articles.

The New York Times has an interesting article on Phil's EVSE upgrade, and Gary's SOC meter; written by Bradley Berman.... Makes one feel happy to have the EVSE upgrade running in good stead here... (did a search so hope this isn't redundant).

Article
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/16/automobiles/nissan-leafs-true-believers-wont-leave-well-enough-alone.html?hpw=&pagewanted=all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Photos
http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2011/10/16/automobiles/16hack-slideshow.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HANDS ON At a recent gathering of Bay Area Leaf owners, Waidy Lee, right, an electrical engineer, discusses an adapter for charging multiple cars.
By BRADLEY BERMAN
Published: October 14, 2011
A version of this article appeared in print on October 16, 2011, on page BU10 of the National edition with the headline: When Electric Car Owners Talk, Nissan Listens..

Should see it in print Sunday.

That Two LEAFs charging from one J1772 adapter in Waidy's hands is mine. It's actually an L6-30P to two L6-20R adapter that combined with http://modularevpower.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; J1772 to 14-50R adapter allows you to plug two of Phil's http://evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; L6-20P to J1772 modified Nissan LEAF EVSE. Now if you were at a 70A J1772, you could share that with 6 LEAFs when you have a bunch of LEAFs meeting.

Great shots in the slide show of Howard showing off the Gidometer or is that Giddyometer - Garygid's battery state of charge meter.

 

[cwerdna]

Awesome! Thanks for the pointer.

It was great to be able to meet Phil himself at Green Drive Expo and to drive his modded Prius.

 

[mwalsh]

What great stories! Well done NorCal crew and Garygid!

 

[thankyouOB]

that is all just perfect. good reporting, and good work by all the Leafers.
There is some justice in the world of news.

 

[oakwcj]

Great stories. My only quibble is that I wish there had been a reaction quote from Phil responding to Mark Perry's suggestion that using the upgraded EVSE could damage the car. That nonsensical statement shouldn't have been left unchallenged.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Great stories. My only quibble is that I wish there had been a reaction quote from Phil responding to Mark Perry's suggestion that using the upgraded EVSE could damage the car. That nonsensical statement shouldn't have been left unchallenged.

Yes, nonsensical, but with a purpose. Why would Nissan endorse a competing product, or one without the same third party testing (UL, et al) that any other "proper" company in the world would use?

Should there be a fire, and there will be, guaranteed, the lawyers will throw in the suggestion that it must have been the unapproved, hacked electrical stuff that caused the fire, that burnt the house down, and killed the bus load of screaming school children. I think Nissan will still pay, but so will the company that profited on that "hacked" scary electrical stuff.

Hopefully Phil was smart enough to get insurance, which will handle lawyers, and pay the inevitable out-of-court settlement.

 

[TRONZ]

Speaking of burning houses down. Whatever happened with that Volt fire?

 

[evnow]

Should there be a fire, and there will be, guaranteed, the lawyers will throw in the suggestion that it must have been the unapproved, hacked electrical stuff that caused the fire, that burnt the house down, and killed the bus load of screaming school children.

Very unlikely. Only enthusiasts are now getting the mod and that is a small enough number. We would have some fire - but only after millions have EVs - and by that time there would be no need for this upgrade - there will be companies selling UL certified portable 220v EVSE by then.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Should there be a fire, and there will be, guaranteed, the lawyers will throw in the suggestion that it must have been the unapproved, hacked electrical stuff that caused the fire, that burnt the house down, and killed the bus load of screaming school children.

Very unlikely. Only enthusiasts are now getting the mod and that is a small enough number. We would have some fire - but only after millions have EVs - and by that time there would be no need for this upgrade - there will be companies selling UL certified portable 220v EVSE by then.

Already one electric car made national news when the garage burnt down. If it had been a Nissan, and an "unapproved" electric "hack", I think my scenario is certainly reasonable.

 

[TonyWilliams]

"And there will be guaranteed" Can you please back that irresponsible fear mongering statement up.

It looks like somebody with moderator level permission "hacked" into my post !!!!

What's to back up? One electric car (a Volt) has been burnt. Many more will follow (fires are natural, you know). How does that make "irresponsible fear mongering"?

Yes, fires will happen, guaranteed, and electric cars will burn. I will bet any amount of money you care to wager on that. With 15% of the market owning that hacked, unapproved, certified by Nissan as dangerous, modified EVSE, I know the first place the Nissan lawyers point to when a LEAF burns.

Guaranteed.

 

[TRONZ]

Already one electric car made national news when the garage burnt down

Ya, that's what I'm talking about. Whatever happened with that?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Already one electric car made national news when the garage burnt down

Ya, that's what I'm talking about. Whatever happened with that?

I never heard anything more about it. Could have been anything, but here's an excerpt from a news article:

As of this writing, nothing has been reported as to what caused a garage fire containing an electrically converted 1987 Suzuki Samurai SUV and a 2011 Chevrolet Volt....

Connors is himself a volunteer firefighter. He converted the Samurai years ago, and said he did not think the electric vehicles caused the fire.

This did not stop criticism from heating up from such sources as the National Legal and Policy Center which made inductive leaps broader than a fire break dug to contain a spreading wildfire.


Other reports, such as by the UK’s Daily Mail also cast doubt on electric vehicles with the title “So much for carbon footprint: Green driver’s hybrid cars may have sparked garage fire.”

April 20, 2011|By JANICE PODSADA, [email protected], The Hartford Courant

State fire marshals have wrapped up their investigation of a Barkhamsted fire that destroyed a garage housing two electric cars, a do-it-yourself-conversion and a new Chevrolet Volt, a plug-in electric hybrid.

Fire marshals say the investigation into the cause of the fire is now in the hands of the insurance company and General Motors Corp, which manufactures the Volt, and the owner's insurer.

<<<<< Yep, General Motors. They will pay, and I'll bet that the car had NOTHING to do with it. They'll pay because it's cheaper than the bad press and legal bills to fight it.

If it had a hacked, unapproved EVSE, their insurance company would pay, too.

 

[Nekota]

Already one electric car made national news when the garage burnt down

Ya, that's what I'm talking about. Whatever happened with that?

Well not much ... and then there's the source of the news to consider.

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2011/05/fire-marshall-in-chevy-volt-garage-fire-it-wasnt-the-cars/

and

http://gm-volt.com/2011/05/18/exclusive-chevrolet-volt-unofficially-cleared-in-connecticut-garage-fire/

and

http://www.aftermarketleads.com/2011/05/update-on-connecticut-garage-fire-the-volt-did-not-start-it.html

and a visit to

http://barkhamsted.us/Home/tabid/36/Default.aspx

and search for volt turns up empty. I think the fire contributed to a poor choice for the all electric GM Spark - it has more potential for a catchy headline. :lol:

 

[Boomer23]

Back on topic (for a moment only, I'm sure), the NYT stories are great to read and I love getting to "meet" Phil and some of the others, gascant I imagine is among them (Howard?).

Great job, Bay Leafs and Gary, Phil and the others in the MNL brain trust. I'm proud of you guys.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Great stories. My only quibble is that I wish there had been a reaction quote from Phil responding to Mark Perry's suggestion that using the upgraded EVSE could damage the car. That nonsensical statement shouldn't have been left unchallenged.

Yes, nonsensical, but with a purpose. Why would Nissan endorse a competing product, or one without the same third party testing (UL, et al) that any other "proper" company in the world would use?

Should there be a fire, and there will be, guaranteed, the lawyers will throw in the suggestion that it must have been the unapproved, hacked electrical stuff that caused the fire, that burnt the house down, and killed the bus load of screaming school children. I think Nissan will still pay, but so will the company that profited on that "hacked" scary electrical stuff.

Hopefully Phil was smart enough to get insurance, which will handle lawyers, and pay the inevitable out-of-court settlement.

"And there will be guaranteed" Can you please back that irresponsible fear mongering statement up. I say this because your statement implies it will happen related to the EVSE upgrade. You don't specify a generic EV fire. Many idiots may start garage fires with cobbled together EV conversions with wires dangling and unsafe chargers.


In the case of the fire with the Volt. I am very suspicious of this entire incident without citing any blame. The owner I believe was a retired or reserve fire fighter, and the fire dept got there ASAP with VIP service. Then it is not easily concluded what the cause of the fire is far after the incident, if the fire ignition point were an EV this should be not to difficult to determine. Then GM sends people to clear their name but nothing is mentioned by the fire marshall about the home built conversion or his personal blog that states how he charges the conversion with no BMS which I believe was using a nicad pack and admits the setup was not safe in his blog. We don't know what happened for sure but there are some very interesting details left out. In every case of these type of fires I have seen it is related to gross negligence from owners messing with packs where they had no business doing so, any bit of research will show this. I don't think a "bad boy" charger on any pack without a proper control system is anything less than a disaster waiting to happen. Whether this or something else was the case it sure was kept quiet. Don't count on an EVSE doing anything adverse to a car because is as likely as the pack blowing up while driving.

Before the LEAF there were years of safe EV conversions built by many serious and skilled EV enthusiasts and then the LEAF came along and now the internet is full of EV "experts" because they own an EV. It is riddled with people even like Mark Perry that make fear-based statements on topics they have little knowledge. I would really like to be in an interview with Mark Perry and have him explain how an EVSE could do anything adverse to any EV, because he can't and no one else here can either but fear is the new intelligence in America not facts and reason. DI you know EVs pollute more than ICE cars because of electricity form Coal? I suppose Mark Perry may correct the items that suit his corporate agenda. Like a 100 mile range and 6.6kw charger upgrades

 

[LEAFfan]

"And there will be guaranteed" Can you please back that irresponsible fear mongering statement up.

Tony, now you know the 'hacker' moderator.

 

[EVDRIVER]

"And there will be guaranteed" Can you please back that irresponsible fear mongering statement up.

Tony, now you know the 'hacker' moderator.

If you have ever volunteered to moderate a forum you may know that it can be quite a time commitment. In addition moderators have different buttons on their pages and at times they accidentally hit "edit" and not reply. Also, it is easy to see from my signature I am a moderator if one reads. If I wanted to "hack' something I could just delete some of the threads, posts or ban users I don't agree with but that would not be very objective would it? I suppose most people also don't see all the spam moderators delete or the spam bots we block as well. Regardless we don't "hack" posts but is easy to type in the wrong space at times.

 

[JimSouCal]

Wow. :shock: Nice agenda driven thread creep.

Anyway, as listening is as listening does, I do hope that Nissan sees LEAF owners as a resource to build a better mousetrap, and also, keeps their eye on the ball with providing software updates that add features and ease, and reasonably priced hardware upgrades...

 

[TonyWilliams]

If you have ever volunteered to moderate a forum you may know that it can be quite a time commitment. In addition moderators have different buttons on their pages and at times they accidentally hit "edit" and not reply. Also, it is easy to see from my signature I am a moderator if one reads. If I wanted to "hack' something I could just delete some of the threads, posts or ban users I don't agree with but that would not be very objective would it? I suppose most people also don't see all the spam moderators delete or the spam bots we block as well. Regardless we don't "hack" posts but is easy to type in the wrong space at times.

I've been, and am, a moderator on a busy forum. I'm intimately familiar with the job, including the thanklessness.

I hope your job here is easier than mine there!