Now using "D", not "eco" for safety

[tps]

Unless the car is moving forward at greater than 7mph; then it just goes to neutral.

So what happens at 6 or 7 mph when you throw it into reverse? Has anyone tried it?

Apparently, yes, it has been tried. The car does, in fact, go to reverse.

I don't intend to test that particular "feature", at least not on my purchased car!

Why should it hurt the car? I'm guessing the motor controller will just apply reverse torque , the same as it does for regenerative braking.

 

[aqn]

+1! There's no way anyone can do better in 'D' than ECO. If they think they can, I'll challenge them. :mrgreen:

Ok, here's the challenge. We both drive 60mph down the same street for 10 miles. Both with the A/C off.
You use ECO and I use D. Who will win ?

I don't know who will win, but I do know that if it was me driving both cars on my usual routes (not at the same time, of course!), ECO would win.

Over 46 charge events, my ECO driving returns 3.96 mi/kWh.
Over 37 charge events, my D driving returns 3.88 mi/kWh.
Both are without A/C use. I don't have enough charge events with full-time A/C use for A/C-versus-no-A/C figures.

 

[TomT]

Assuming you both drive appropriately and optimally for the selected mode, I would expect a draw...

Ok, here's the challenge. We both drive 60mph down the same street for 10 miles. Both with the A/C off.
You use ECO and I use D. Who will win ?

 

[QueenBee]

Ok, here's the challenge. We both drive 60mph down the same street for 10 miles. Both with the A/C off.
You use ECO and I use D. Who will win ?

I don't know who will win, but I do know that if it was me driving both cars on my usual routes (not at the same time, of course!), ECO would win.

Over 46 charge events, my ECO driving returns 3.96 mi/kWh.
Over 37 charge events, my D driving returns 3.88 mi/kWh.

Eh? A ~2% difference is hardly a win. What do you think the margin of error is on the readings to begin with? There are so many factors not controlled for that I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that eco is 2% better. Besides 2% is negligible

 

[TonyWilliams]

Exactly. Eco mode has it's uses, as I find myself using it for slowing (without touch the brake pedal). No doubt, a new to electric car driver would probably get better economy with Eco.

Assuming you both drive appropriately and optimally for the selected mode, I would expect a draw...

Ok, here's the challenge. We both drive 60mph down the same street for 10 miles. Both with the A/C off.
You use ECO and I use D. Who will win ?

 

[aqn]

UPDATE:

GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out): I miscounted!

Actually, the numbers are:
ECO, no A/C: 3.96 (46 events, average of middle 42 values)
D, no A/C: 3.74 (28 events, average of middle 24 values)
ECO, A/C: 4.02 (!!!) (9 events, average of middle 5 values (this is higher than the "ECO, no A/C" figure probably due to the small number of data points))

 

[aqn]

!@#$%^&*( I clobbered my previous post adding the "UPDATE".

Ok, here's the challenge. We both drive 60mph down the same street for 10 miles. Both with the A/C off. You use ECO and I use D. Who will win ?

I don't know who will win, but I do know that if it was me driving both cars on my usual routes (not at the same time, of course!), ECO would win.

Over 46 charge events, my ECO driving returns 3.96 mi/kWh.
Over 37 charge events, my D driving returns 3.88 mi/kWh.

Eh? A ~2% difference is hardly a win.

It depends on the context. If a nuclear bomb is actually 2% less powerful than its claimed power, would it matter? If Hussein Bolt loses by 2%, would it matter? In this case, or rather in my case, 2% works out to about 1.8 miles per "tankful" (my collected data indicates 1.39 kWh per SoC bar, and assuming 13.5 bars total capacity). That would be the difference between having to call Nissan Road Side Service or not. Not that it matters, since I rarely get down to "low battery warning" (only 6 times out of 90 charge events so far).

What do you think the margin of error is on the readings to begin with?

I don't know. I throw out the highest and lowest three values of each data set and average the rest. It actually only takes about 6, 7 data points for the average to converge quite closely to the final value, so with 30+ data points...

There are so many factors not controlled for that I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that eco is 2% better. Besides 2% is negligible

There are indeed many many factors, which is why I gather lots of data points: the effects of uncontrolled variables (variation in traffic, weather, state of charge, routes, etc.) are "smoothed" out over the series. The difference then reflects changes in the controlled variables (D vs ECO, A/C vs no A/C, etc.).

 

[Nubo]

If the brake blends in regeneration then I see no purpose to "emulate engine braking" by having always-on regen. If I want to slow down, I'll start pressing on the brake, so bring on the regen THEN. If I just want to coast, I'd rather the car just coast instead of having to hunt for a neutral throttle position. I.e., I know when and at what rate I want to slow down, so how about leaving that decision up to me? Then degree braking regen is controlled by the amount of deceleration I'm commanding and there is no engineering compromise. Makes perfect sense to me....

Gas pedal = go
Brake pedal = slow

Anything that makes me have to fight the car to get my way is nuts.

Reading through this thread again I felt like taking issue with this post... Until I noticed that author! :lol:

Well, there's the difference between supposing and knowing. Now that I have the car I'm actually pretty happy with the way they implemented the regen.

 

[tps]

If you want to coast while you're driving then switch to N.
Coming up to a red light? N until you need to start slowing. Switch to ECO until you need to actually press the break. Press the break pedal - if you need to force it you applied ECO too late.
(If you go to N then you don't start regen. If the light turns green, go back to D or ECO and you've wasted the least amount of energy)

I'd rather not have to work that hard to outsmart my car! :?

+1

 

[DurkaDurka]

I drive in ECO because I prefer the decel pattern. One can argue that they can emulate this behavioral if they wish by lightly applying the brake pedal, but I argue that I can easily defeat the ECO decel by simply applying a little bit of the "gas" pedal.

I've found that when I let off the "gas", I want to start to slowing down and I'd rather have that decel then applying the brake (which would turn on the brake lights - something I don't want unless I press the brakes).

I've also gotten used to the accel programming in "ECO" as "D" is too touchie. If I need the power, I push the pedal past 75%. Works perfectly really.

 

[JimSouCal]

I've also gotten used to the accel programming in "ECO" as "D" is too touchie. If I need the power, I push the pedal past 75%. Works perfectly really.

The beautiful thing is we have a choice. The original reason I stated I drive in D is it more closely matches the acceleration mapping of my sports car, and to this day, don't notice any appreciable efficiencies with my driving pattern.

For what it is worth, I'd like more aggressive regen in D, but am overall, still really pleased with the LEAF!

 

[dgpcolorado]

I use Eco because the extra regen helps with hill descents. I'd rather the regen was a bit more aggressive: the Eco deceleration is roughly the equivalent of between second and third gear on my ICE cars and I prefer second gear to keep the speed at a safe level. I'd rather not use the brakes at all except on hairpin turns and that's the only time brake lights are needed to warn cars behind me that my speed is dropping.

 

[MrFish]

I usually drive in Eco, I have noticed that in heavy stop n go freeway traffic, I have had several close calls when slowing. It seems to take the car behind me a split second longer to realize I'm slowing which, if they are following aggressively may be a problem. Up until a few weeks ago, my opinion was, hey if they rear end me, that's their fault/problem. That was until I was actually rear ended and after the guy told me he didn't have time to give me his insurance info because his wife was in labor and he fled the scene. I then had have had to suffer through filing a police report, going without a car while it was in the body shop, going without car pool lane access while waiting for DMV to replace the stickers and generally being stressed out over the whole ordeal. My philosophy has undergone a slight adjustment and I now dive in D mode and I am willing to sacrifice a slight decrease in efficiency in exchange for a potential increase in safety.

 

[DurkaDurka]

MrFish...I'll bear that in mind next time I'm in traffic. I have watched people in the past to see how they behave. It seems I drive in a way to leave plenty of room to slow down, but the decel could be confusing since there are no brake lights.

 

[thankyouOB]

I usually drive in Eco, I have noticed that in heavy stop n go freeway traffic, I have had several close calls when slowing. It seems to take the car behind me a split second longer to realize I'm slowing which, if they are following aggressively may be a problem. Up until a few weeks ago, my opinion was, hey if they rear end me, that's their fault/problem. That was until I was actually rear ended and after the guy told me he didn't have time to give me his insurance info because his wife was in labor and he fled the scene. I then had have had to suffer through filing a police report, going without a car while it was in the body shop, going without car pool lane access while waiting for DMV to replace the stickers and generally being stressed out over the whole ordeal. My philosophy has undergone a slight adjustment and I now dive in D mode and I am willing to sacrifice a slight decrease in efficiency in exchange for a potential increase in safety.

sorry to hear about this. but it seems to be the same issue we stick drivers face on the freeway in stop-go traffic. it may be that former manual drivers have an advantage in using the D switch to Eco. I do confess that I switch between the two frequently and dont mind doing that. after all, I drove LA freeways stick for 25 years.
I try to fight the no-break-light issue when using ECO to slow by being aware of the guy behind me. this awareness behavior includes using my break tap to signal when i feel there is an issue that i need to communicate to the fella behind me.

 

[padamson1]

If I'm behind someone and my car gets closer to theirs I certainly don't need brake lights to realize that I need to slow down. I guess defensive driving is a lost art.

As has been mentioned several times on this thread already, using ECO is no different than downshifting in a stick shift or using 'L' or '2' on an automatic. It is a way to use the engine to slow a vehicle and many consider it safer (than braking) to slow down whilst descending hills, especially in slick conditions. Truckers commonly use it to keep their brake pads from wearing out and I don't hear about them getting rear-ended. Using ECO to slow your LEAF should be no more 'unsafe' for other vehicles than downshifting in an ICE. If someone is tailgating, I'm going to be nervous irregardless of whether I'm using my brakes or downshifting, because there is a bad driver behind me. I have never felt 'threatened' downshifting in the past, and certainly don't when using ECO in the LEAF b/c it has less of an effect on my speed.

Unfortunately we can't help bad drivers, we can only control our driving skills. If I worried about all the idiots on the road I would never be able drive. In 35+ years of using my engine to control my vehicle, the only close calls I've had involved other vehicles returning downhill from ski resorts in high traffic conditions when dummies were going too fast in high traffic conditions and put themselves into a snow bank or oncoming traffic. Each time I was able to avoid carnage because I had full rotational control of my wheels on the surface of the road (folks riding their brakes weren't always so fortunate).

 

[JPWhite]

I use Eco because the extra regen helps with hill descents. I'd rather the regen was a bit more aggressive: the Eco deceleration is roughly the equivalent of between second and third gear on my ICE cars and I prefer second gear to keep the speed at a safe level. I'd rather not use the brakes at all except on hairpin turns and that's the only time brake lights are needed to warn cars behind me that my speed is dropping.

I agree for hill descents there needs to be a more aggressive regen mode so that car will not runaway downhill, it would also provide more battery charging.

 

[Nubo]

As a pilot, a "trim wheel" seems like the perfect and most natural solution for dialing in the right amount of regen. Subject to vehicle limitations of course (full battery, etc...).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trim_tab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm sure there are probably terrestrial reasons for not doing this, but it would be sweet!

 

[CWO4Mann]

After reading this thread, I decided to experiment:

While driving the Leaf with only the driver on board, on a flat, dry concrete surface, I began travelling at a speed of 10 MPH indicated on the dash display, in the "ECO" mode. There were no internal noises, radios or other devices operating. The windows were rolled up.

With the intent of determining what would occur when the car was reversed while in forward motion, as some in this forum have discussed, I used a swift motion and placed the shift knob into the "R" position . The vehicle immediately manifested an increase in the very slight "whine" sound which is ordinarily barely perceptible to my ears as the vehicle is in forward motion. Within an estimated .5 to .75 seconds a low-pitched groaning sound was heard coming from the front center of the lower front compartment. I felt, rather than heard, a low-pitched humming sound for a period of perhaps 1 second. Then, the vehicle came to a complete halt while incurring a very noticeable feeling of negative G force or deceleration; there were no other sounds apparent. I did not hear any tire chirp. After coming to a complete halt, the vehicle began to reverse and within 1 or 2 seconds achieved a reverse speed of 10 MPH indicated. At that point, I concluded the test by placing the selector in the "P" position and exited the vehicle. I opened the hood and looked for any indication of smoke, fumes, or other possible maintenance issues. None were seen or smelled. I entered the vehicle and drove about 3 city blocks to a freeway entrance (I-65 Southbound at Concord Road), while in ECO mode I merged onto the freeway in a steady acceleration state until the speedometer indicated 95 miles per hour. After that point, I discontinued the test and returned to base, errr home.

What should be the next test event? I have already ascertained that the stereo system will play Insane Clown Posse recordings without damage to the speaker.

Regards to the group,
Dave

 

[keydiver]

That was until I was actually rear ended and after the guy told me he didn't have time to give me his insurance info because his wife was in labor and he fled the scene.

I wouldn't automatically blame the ECO mode for this accident, and I hope you didn't volunteer that information. All we need is another media-inspired anti-EV article. :roll: It sounds to me like the guy was traveling well in excess of the speed limit, throwing caution to the wind to get his wife to the hospital, and HE caused the accident, IMO.
I'm always watching my rear view mirror when coming up to a light. If I see traffic barreling down on me, I step it up a bit. If no one is anywhere close behind me, I regen as much as I can. I've been doing it for 6+ years in my PHEV Prius, and have never even been close to an accident.