Nissan Won't Honor Capacity Warranty, Says I Am 4 Days Late. 8 Bars

[Stoaty]

Well, your only dog may be that you really expected to be around 53 Ahr (80% original capacity) instead of < 75%. And that's with babying it. One shouldn't have to worry about babying the battery and still expect to hit Nissan's estimates of remaining capacity. Instead you've babied it and are still falling short.

I think that's most people's major beef with the situation.

All true, but the dog I am talking about is the one that almost grabbed and ate the T-bone steak, only to have it yanked out of his mouth before he could start chewing. :lol: My dog won't see the T-bone within 10,000 miles of him.

 

[cwerdna]

I wouldn't call taking advantage of a crappy warranty brought on by a class action lawsuit that sold out the class "gaming the system". Whether the car needed warranty replacement of the battery under the original owner or to a savvy buyer is immaterial. Nissan put themselves in this position of pissing people off because their product was not properly tested and thus did not live up to the claims they boldly made prior to the sale.

Agree about the bold claims that Nissan (e.g. 70% to 80% remaining capacity after 10 years, we don't need thermal management, etc.) made yet they provided no capacity warranty to back it up.

The capacity warranty via the class action lawsuit is better than nothing, but I'm sure many folks here wish it were for longer in duration and/or mileage and had some pro-rating provision (e.g. we'll pay for $x or y% towards the battery if you lose 4 bars after _____ miles w/a the $ amount declining the further it's past the full coverage preiod).

 

[Jeffoff]

Dave the Nissan genius, (or employee?) Very generous to charge me $2,950 for what I qualified for, by their own settlement wordage, should be free? Please... The Capacity Warranty was the settlement to address wrong doing on Nissan's part. It was their way to show the court that they were going to make good on their mistake in stating the battery's capability incorrectly. The early leaf owners bought their cars with range estimates of 84 miles. Yet I can barely drive to my work and back on one charge, and it is a 40 mile round trip! That's fair Dave? I abandon Nissan because they care not about their early Leaf owners. What the court should have done is force Nissan to offer all 2011 and 2012 owners new batteries regardless. Lucky for Nissan that they could settle with what the Judge let them off on, the capacity warranty trick.

When I went to have battery tested at Concord Nissan, they delayed the test 5 additional days because they were re-coating their garage floor. I had no problem accepting that 5 day delay. Was that Nissan's way of telling me they were not speeding, and they thought the speed limit was 70 Dave? Should I have demanded that they not delay and only test then? I could of yelled and screamed like a child to get service now! How childlike of Nissan, right Dave? Forget the delay Nissan, you can't get out of this speeding ticket, Grow up Nissan! Act like an adult. Then when I was dealing with Nissan Leaf Dept. they delayed me 3 times, each was a 3 day delay, totaling 9 days in delays because They Made A Mistake On What Dealer I Had Car Tested At. Genius Dave, was this also childlike of them to delay me, and then expect me to honor their delay? Why are they not acting grown up like an adult Nissan? To expect me to not be 5 days late, yet I just stated 14 days they delayed due to reasons not stated in Capacity Warranty! Dave's genius position would be... Its OK for Nissan to be late, 4 separate times, yet its not OK for the customer to be late once. I agree the Nissan instrumentation is not that great, which then goes to support a little leniency when it comes to being 5 days getting to show face at dealer. With electronics like the GOM sold to us, how do we really know if that the bar drop to 8 was itself late? Maybe it should have occurred a month earlier Dave, because you state Nissan's electronics are not that accurate right Dave? The bottom line point for me is this. If a piss poor battery was installed, and the company acknowledges this fact be way of a settlement to make things right. Nissan should not bicker about a customer arriving a week or two late. The right thing to do is allow the warranty replacement knowing that its not just a regular warranty. It was way for Nissan to pay restitution for harm they did to us. Then to say your harm does not count because you are days late, is like Nissan saying you deserve that crappy battery we suckered you into buying. Too bad you were not down here 100 hours ago, because then we would care that we caused you harm. But you were late, so now you deserve that harm, and we don't care.




Re: Nissan Won't Honor Capacity Warranty, Says I Am 4 Days Late. 8 Bars
Quote DaveinOlyWA
by DaveinOlyWA » Sat Jun 04, 2016 10:15 am

**feel goodies please ignore this post**

For those of you who will abandon Nissan for honoring the warranty; good luck with finding another company that will alter theirs. Nissan has changed theirs to a degree that I believe to be unmatched in the industry. Finding a more "understanding" car company is a fool's game.

To the OP; you were late. 5 days, 5 years. It doesn't really matter. You said you had the impression it was 7 years well how many tickets did you avoid by telling the cop you thought the speed limit was 70? You are an adult, act like one.

Sorry to be harsh but I have sympathy for the people who stressed several months before missing the deadline by a week or whatever. You were simply thinking you could talk your way into getting what you wanted. I think Nissan's offer of half was VERY generous.

Finally; this thought that Nissan instrumentation will tell you when you lost your 4th bar is simply not true because Nissan instrumentation is nowhere near that good. If you had Leaf Spy, you know what I am talking about

 

[cwerdna]

Dave the Nissan genius, (or employee?) Very generous to charge me $2,950 for what I qualified for, by their own settlement wordage, should be free?

Free if the 5 year/60K (whichever comes first) warranty hadn't expired by the time you'd have an authorized Nissan dealer verify the 4 CB loss.

The early leaf owners bought their cars with range estimates of 84 miles.

No. EPA range rating was 73 miles per http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=30979 on a new battery w/no degradation.

Yet I can barely drive to my work and back on one charge, and it is a 40 mile round trip!

Barely? You may be calling it quits too early and leaving a lot of unused capacity on the table. If you have range complaints, answer the questions at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=275421#p275421 here or another thread.

When I went to have battery tested at Concord Nissan, they delayed the test 5 additional days because they were re-coating their garage floor. I had no problem accepting that 5 day delay. Was that Nissan's way of telling me they were not speeding
...

Not sure what your rant w/o paragraphs is all about. Nissan, the company does not and cannot own dealers in many/most states due to state franchise laws. As I said before, if the deadline was running out, I'd sure as hell get it verified somewhere before expiration.

The turnaround time for a dealer or whoever you were dealing with to respond is not material to the warranty period and its expiration.

the Capacity Warranty was the settlement to address wrong doing on Nissan's part. It was their way to show the court that they were going to make good on their mistake in stating the battery's capability incorrectly.
...
If a piss poor battery was installed, and the company acknowledges this fact be way of a settlement to make things right.

From browsing the verbiage at http://classaction.kccllc.net/content.aspx?c=5620&sh=1, not really.

Nissan denies Plaintiffs’ claims and believes that the lawsuit is without merit. According to Nissan, the Lithium-ion battery in the Nissan LEAFTM, the first affordable, mass market, all electric vehicle, performs in a manner that is normal and expected in all Lithium-ion batteries with time and use. Nissan maintains that information on gradual capacity loss, the various factors that influence capacity loss over time, and the factors that impact vehicle range have been communicated to all owners and lessees from the outset in various ways, including on Nissan’s website, in the LEAFTM Owner’s Manuals and as clearly stated in the LEAFTM Customer Disclosure Form provided to purchasers and lessees prior to taking delivery. Accordingly, Nissan believes there is no “thermal management” defect in the Nissan LEAFTM, and no misrepresentations were made about the range or battery capacity of the LEAFTM.

...
3. Why is there a Settlement?

The Plaintiffs believe that their case is meritorious and that they would be able to prevail at trial. Nonetheless, they have agreed to a settlement to avoid the costs and risks of a trial and because the settlement provides significant benefits to the class.

Nissan believes the lawsuit has no merit, but nevertheless is willing to enter into this settlement as a further commitment to its Nissan LEAFTM customers, to provide extra peace of mind to its customers, and to end further litigation, which could be protracted, burdensome and expensive.

The Court has not decided who is right or wrong in this lawsuit. This settlement is not, and should not be considered as evidence of Nissan’s admission or concession of any fault, wrongdoing or liability whatsoever.

I'm not a saying I agree, I'm just quoting what's there.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Jeff; For all your ranting, you fail to admit you screwed up. How your mind put this 7 year thing into your head only you know and guess that is not something you are willing to share and I see before this incident, you basically ignored this site but now that you have something to say you are here for what? advice? Sympathy?

As I said; lots of people in your boat but they decided to do something as it started to list. you elected to rely on your great swimming skills, ignoring all else. your batteries have been on the decline for nearly 5 years, severely so for at least a year. Now you do know "something" about the warranty otherwise you would not have asked so cry all you want because I think you are lying to us.

you made the decision that your car could wait while you tended to other things thinking your negotiating skills would get you a pass. Guess what buddy; it didn't work.

Do I think you have a legitimate beef? Yes, I do

Do I think you have a legitimate claim? No, I don't

 

[sub3marathonman]

**feel goodies please ignore this post**

For those of you who will abandon Nissan for honoring the warranty; good luck with finding another company that will alter theirs. Nissan has changed theirs to a degree that I believe to be unmatched in the industry. Finding a more "understanding" car company is a fool's game.

To the OP; you were late. 5 days, 5 years. It doesn't really matter. You said you had the impression it was 7 years well how many tickets did you avoid by telling the cop you thought the speed limit was 70? You are an adult, act like one.

Sorry to be harsh but I have sympathy for the people who stressed several months before missing the deadline by a week or whatever. You were simply thinking you could talk your way into getting what you wanted. I think Nissan's offer of half was VERY generous.

Finally; this thought that Nissan instrumentation will tell you when you lost your 4th bar is simply not true because Nissan instrumentation is nowhere near that good. If you had LEAF Spy, you know what I am talking about

Wow, I guess I must be one of those "feel goodies," but I didn't ignore this post.

First, I find the "Sorry to be harsh but I have sympathy for the people who stressed several months before missing the deadline by a week or whatever. You were simply thinking you could talk your way into getting what you wanted," to be unwarranted conjecture, and according to the OP, it was a matter of not knowing, and then having mitigating circumstances. Should the OP have known, yes, but the question then becomes is a $7K penalty warranted for being an hour late, a day late or a week late?

Now, yes it is true, Nissan has changed their warranty, "unmatched in the industry" even, but that statement without the context of the Klee lawsuit implies that Nissan did this out of the goodness of their corporate heart. In addition, at least in my opinion, Nissan essentially was able to scam the court, stating "approximately 70%" when it is in fact based on the whim of capacity bars programmed, and then REPROGRAMMED by Nissan, something I would call "unprecedented" as far as a court settlement should be when "approximately 70%" is 63% or so, unprecedented as far as I know in mathematics.

The OP mentioned something I hadn't thought of, the data collected by Nissan via Carwings, which I never use. Does this data include battery capacity and/or bars? Only a subpoena would find out for sure. I'm not sure why LEAFspy is mentioned in a negative manner, the data it provides certainly includes battery capacity, as a percentage, as reported by the Nissan LEAF itself and thus I would think available for Nissan to collect the information. But yes, of course, the capacity bar, as reprogrammed by Nissan, does not drop at a predefined number, it is through some voodoo mathematics that only Nissan knows.

My experience dealing with Nissan has been less than excellent, because as I was aware of the harshness of Nissan I asked for the "in service" date for my LEAF in writing, and which they refused to provide until I filed a case with the BBB! I also went in for my annual battery check, received the "WOO HOO" 5-Star Rating in all categories, the service technician asked how I liked the car, and I replied essentially it is a great car but the range seems somewhat less, and everyone walked away without a mention of the detail that there were only 8 capacity bars and I definitely qualified for the battery replacement warranty.

I would definitely have not accepted the half-price offer, but different people have different circumstances, which in this case Nissan has benefitted from. It was also my understanding that the BBB case which was filed and won by Leafer77 was based on the 8-year battery defect warranty, and in fact won on appeal of the initial BBB decision. Where would Leafer77 be if he had just taken the attitude of "You are an adult, act like one," implying don't pursue all legal strategies available, including coming to a forum and "ranting" as some have said, I would say informing.

 

[Jeffoff]

Dave, You remind me of the type of individual who would say the rape of a woman was deserved, because she was wearing certain revealing clothing. Or the guy who was robbed at the ATM deserved it because he was using it after dark. There will always be twisted people out there that blame the victims. OK, to make Dave satisfied, I will state the obvious for him. Yes, I screwed up. Hell yes I did. If I could Monday Morning Quarterback as Dave proudly does, yes, of course I would have but my personal life aside and raced down to Nissan on Easter Sunday, and demanded the security guard state a sworn statement that I was there on march 27th seeking a battery test. If I knew the leaf department even existed then, I would have called them and left a message on there voicemail stating name, number, VIN, etc. Again Dave, I think everyone who read any of my posts would agree I screwed up. Did I ever state I did things correctly? No, I stated often I was 5 days late getting to counter. But why is it your goal to be against me Dave? What the hell did I do, but share my story to help others not screw up? Are you angry that I might be able to focus others on going about the final months of their 5 year limit differently? That's my goal at this point. at first I was seeking advcie, now I encourage everyone to be aware that Nissan has no sympathy to their Leaf owners stuck with the weak lemon batteries. So be aware that there is a high chance your battery will drop to that 8th bar, so don't baby that battery as you near the last months! I had no knowledge of any battery voltages to watch, etc., until coming to this helpful forum. I never knew about Leaf Spy until after the 8 bar drop, and the denial by Nissan. (Wait, let me make Dave happy again, I admit I screwed up on arriving 4 working days after deadline.) I didn't even have the purchase date in my head! Dave seems to keep bringing up my mistake of having 7 years as the deadline in my head initially (More blaming the victim) As I told Nissan, I have a life to live, I am not a slave to a damn dashboard, not a slave to upcoming deadlines or mileages. My focus is on my life, my family, (have you any siblings Dave, with disabling MS and psychological problems that erupt each holiday? You have no idea Dave...) I don't even normally drive that car. My wife does, but when I glanced at the dash that day I was off, it clicked...wait that's the 8 bar drop! I had never been to any forum previous to that! I then saw I had 43,000 miles. I knew I was well within the 60,000 mile warranty period. I thought I had plenty of time. Again to make Dave happy, I made a HUGE mistake by letting my brain think it was 7 years on the time limit. Wow how dumb I was Dave to confuse the existing battery failure 7 year warranty, with the battery capacity 5 year warranty. Guess what Dave, the second Nissan dealer that I went to that day is located in Concord Ca. I spoke to a service guy there named Shayne Shelton. After I told him that Walnut Creek told me I was 5 days late, You know what Shayne told me? "No, you are not late. You still qualify to have it replaced" He showed me the print out. It showed one battery capacity warranty was no longer on BOLD lettering (capacity warranty), yet the Electric Vehicle Lithion-Ion battery warranty was still active! He said "We just did one of these replacements. Don't worry, you're good still. We need to test your car battery though, then we notify Nissan Leaf dept. They then ship the battery to us, because we cant just order it ourselves. They have to do it after we test your battery" I was so relieved. I thought great OK lets test it! He then went on to tell me the shop delay due to epoxy coating the floors until April 12th, etc. I said that's fine, Ill be here on the 12th then , what time? I can get here at 8:30 AM after dropping son off at school. That's fine. He then logged me in. I asked for the print out on the warranty info, and he gave it to me saying here you can have this because we have it all in the computer anyhow. Great, see you next week. Guess what Dave this service technician was completely wrong, and made the exact mistake in dates that I made! I guess this service tech is as dumb as I was. Later, I called a Nissan Dealer across the Bay (At Petaluma Nissan?) and spoke to a knowledgeable woman there in service that had her facts straight. She clarified the difference in the two battery warranties. One was the capacity warranty, the other was complete battery failure, like as if a cell burned up Two different things. She enlightened me on how strict the Nissan Leaf Dept. is. She said its like moving gold from a bank to get them to send a replacement battery out. There is a test, forms, confirmations, approvals, then the battery is finally shipped from another state, etc. She also stated they are not lenient down there. and warned me what to expect. I then called Leaf Dept. and went through all the discussions with Chris I stated in earlier posts, where he confirmed that what Shayne Shelton at Concord Nissan stated to me was not true. the 7 year warranty certainly did not apply. That,s it for me on this subject, until the next BS post from Dave condemning me for not being more focused on Nissan battery facts and dates, then on my family and life.

 

[cwerdna]

Yet another long rant w/no paragraph breaks.

Dave, You remind me of the type of individual who would say the rape of a woman was deserved, because she was wearing certain revealing clothing. Or the guy who was robbed at the ATM deserved it because he was using it after dark. There will always be twisted people out there that blame the victims.

Ouch! That's stretching things.

OK, to make Dave satisfied, I will state the obvious for him. Yes, I screwed up. Hell yes I did...
That,s it for me on this subject, until the next BS post from Dave condemning me for not being more focused on Nissan battery facts and dates, then on my family and life.

Yes you did. You didn't have the facts straight. The terms of the capacity warranty have been up here since June 2013 (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=13192) and this warranty has been known about since end December 2012 (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=253595 and http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/27/nissan-leaf-battery-warranty-upgraded-first-capacity-loss/).

Your focus on those other things. how you set your priorities and mixups cost you.

Unfortunately, since you weren't the original owner, you probably didn't receive a snail mail notification about the addition of the capacity warranty and its terms. I believe all '11 and '12 owners received that. It's moot for '13+ drivers since the terms are in the warranty booklet of '13+ Leafs.

First I feel your frustration and understand your anger.

Unfortunatly for you Nissan has no legal obligation to honor the warranty unless you had them physically confirm 8 bars before the 5 year mark.
...
My advice to you is to be VERY VERY POLITE at the hearing. If you pi$$ them off they will give you everything you are legally entitled to, which is nothing. If you come across as polite you have a better chance of prevailing.

Yep on all of the above.

 

[davewill]

For starters, I DO feel sorry for you. For your part it was an honest mistake. I am also slightly disappointed that Nissan didn't take care of you better than they have. That said, I do not believe that have a way to verify when that last bar dropped, as you want to believe they do. Yes, they do get updates from the car about the battery, but if they are being ethical about their data collection, they should be removing all individually identifying info from it. We also have no idea how often or even what exactly they collect...they may have even stopped collecting data from these old batteries if they think they've learned all they can from them. It's also possible that some IT guy somewhere in Nissan COULD answer the question, but the warranty people have no knowledge of it or access.

So they have nothing to go by but your word. They didn't have to do ANYTHING for you, but they did, and the vitriol you're displaying is simply out of proportion to the facts.

 

[Firetruck41]

For starters, I DO feel sorry for you. For your part it was an honest mistake. I am also slightly disappointed that Nissan didn't take care of you better than they have. That said, I do not believe that have a way to verify when that last bar dropped, as you want to believe they do. Yes, they do get updates from the car about the battery, but if they are being ethical about their data collection, they should be removing all individually identifying info from it. We also have no idea how often or even what exactly they collect...they may have even stopped collecting data from these old batteries if they think they've learned all they can from them. It's also possible that some IT guy somewhere in Nissan COULD answer the question, but the warranty people have no knowledge of it or access.

So they have nothing to go by but your word. They didn't have to do ANYTHING for you, but they did, and the vitriol you're displaying is simply out of proportion to the facts.

Well put! I agree.

 

[knightmb]

For starters, I DO feel sorry for you. For your part it was an honest mistake. I am also slightly disappointed that Nissan didn't take care of you better than they have. That said, I do not believe that have a way to verify when that last bar dropped, as you want to believe they do. Yes, they do get updates from the car about the battery, but if they are being ethical about their data collection, they should be removing all individually identifying info from it. We also have no idea how often or even what exactly they collect...they may have even stopped collecting data from these old batteries if they think they've learned all they can from them. It's also possible that some IT guy somewhere in Nissan COULD answer the question, but the warranty people have no knowledge of it or access.

So they have nothing to go by but your word. They didn't have to do ANYTHING for you, but they did, and the vitriol you're displaying is simply out of proportion to the facts.

I've always wondered that myself, if the telematics had some detailed battery info. A good reason would be to prevent someone from destroying the battery on purpose to collect a new warranty battery. Like running the battery down to 0% and just leaving it like that for weeks to rapidly destroy the capacity. :evil:

 

[dm33]

I havent waded through every post in this thread, but I am surprised that people arent more supportive of the OP. This forum is filled with complaints against Nissan, almost always related to the battery. Not clear why folks are giving the OP such a hard time.

Yes he is technically outside the warranty.

Fundamentally, Nissan built a car with a deficient battery and sold it as much better than it was. They have been dragging their feet kicking and screaming to lift a finger for affected customers. It is definitely not the best way to treat your early adopters. It leaves a very bad long lasting impression for their customers.

Nissan's reputation continues to be tarnished. The LEAF's reputation continues to be tarnished. Its abysmal resale value is a clear indication that people know to avoid this vehicle.

It would clearly be in Nissan's best interest to show some good will and replace the OP's battery even though it is a whopping 4 days after the warranty period. The continued hard to their reputation hurt them must more than replace a single battery in a single car.

We turned in our LEAF and bought an ICE but plan to go back to an EV soon, either the Bolt of Nissan LEAF 2 or Tesla Model 3 we have reserved.

This episode adds to the list showing evidence that Nissan cannot be trusted and has not earned the respect and trust of prospective customers.

Other poor moves by Nissan:

• Marketing the car as a 100 mile range vehicle since 2011 even though realistic range was a much lower EPA 73+.
• Stating that the battery would last 100,000 miles before significant degradation.
• Providing a misleading battery warranty that covers nothing of value. Customers with half their battery capacity have been told their battery is not defective.
• Being forced via lawsuit to provide a minimal battery capacity warranty.
• Cutting corners every step of the way. Saying warranty if below 70% capacity, yet the measure is really 4 bar loss which is more like 66% capacity. Minimal warranty coverage, only committing to replace the battery with one at 70% capacity. How is that useful?
• Denying battery replacement for those who opted out of the settlement even though the warranty was stated as independent of the settlement.
• Denying battery replacement for a customer who was only a couple of miles over the 60,000 mile limit.
• Denying battery replacement for a customer who was only 4 days beyond the 5 year time limit.
• Not offering to sell the 30kwh battery for 24 kwh cars even though they admit that the battery fits.

 

[user 10599]

dm33, you have very good points. Clearly this is a case where Nissan should do more. The fact they have behaved like most car companies shouldn't surprise anyone.

As for the forum members, many of the above posts clearly indicate that many are not happy with Nissan on a variety of fronts. But are they really supposed to encourage him to not take the 50% offer Nissan made? Wouldn't it be better to help him get over the issue by concurring that he will not be successful in forcing Nissan to replace it free.

Your list at the bottom is good for someone to contemplate when selecting which company to buy from. Unfortunately, if we were to visit the boards of many brands, we would find similar lists of how that brand failed to live up to society's ethical expectations. Sadly, we as buyers must beware. And once we have bought, we must be vigilant to be sure not to get screwed by missing a warranty expiration date. Yes, it would be nice if Nissan didn't screw him. But this applies to all brands I'm aware of.

In total, we love our Leaf. But in the next month, it will get thoroughly checked over before the warranty expires. Could we get screwed if something takes a bad turn in August after the warranty is up? Yes. Will I be happy about? No. But I will not dwell on it too much and continue to enjoy our Leaf assuming it isn't too bad of a situation. Could it impact my decision between Leaf 2 vs. B vs. i3 vs. eGolf? Definitely. But for now, I expect Leaf 2 to be a serious contender for my next car if it comes out soon enough, which at this point I doubt.

 

[EVDrive]

I would take Nissan up on a new battery for $2999 as long as it is at 100% capacity. That's a great deal. I sold my Leaf after it was 85% capacity after 3 years. It would only drive 60 miles, or less, before low battery warning and this was useless for my 50 mile each way commute. If I went slower than 55mph, I would hit LBW everyday. I agree with the DM33 that my Leaf we marketed as 100 miles and only went 70 miles in range at freeway speeds. Hypermiling the car when brand new only gave me 85 miles to very low battery warning. Not near the 100 advertised. Frankly I was happy to do it for several years until I upgraded to a 120 miles range car, The Rav4EV. Range is king. I spend so much less time at the quickcharger then I did with the Leaf. I was charging 3-5 times a week with the Leaf. Now I DC fast charge my Rav4EV about 2 times a month. So much better.

Still a fan of Nissan for getting into EV's first. They deserve some credit. It would have been nice if Nissans first battery didn't suck, however, it did. The batteries may lose capacity quickly, however, they don't start on fire which is awesome. It would have also been nice if we started mass producing EVs 20 years ago instead of making a few and crushing most of them. Nothing in life is perfect. We're making progress though people.

 

[cwerdna]

I I agree with the DM33 that my Leaf we marketed as 100 miles and only went 70 miles in range at freeway speeds. Hypermiling the car when brand new only gave me 85 miles to very low battery warning. Not near the 100 advertised.

Yeah, the 100 mile crap was total BS and was going on for years after the Leaf went on sale. I pointed to 2 incidents at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=11201. I started http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=13264 to shame dealers and reps that would cite "100 mile" or MORE range of '11 thru '15 Leafs.

Apparently, this thinking was pervasive inside Nissan in 2013 per http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=10267&p=261746&hilit=100+miles+disturbing#p261746. :/ The Leaf back then achieved 100+ miles on the LA4 cycle test.

Still a fan of Nissan for getting into EV's first. They deserve some credit. It would have been nice if Nissans first battery didn't suck, however, it did. The batteries may lose capacity quickly, however, they don't start on fire which is awesome..

Concur. I think I never got around to posting in the in praise of Nissan thread. I do give them credit for making the huge investment and taking the risk to produce an affordable EV that fit within the parameters what they set and being pretty darned serious about EVs. I can't speak to Chinese automakers, but outside of them, Nissan would be #2 in terms of seriousness about EVs of all automakers. #1 would be Tesla, of course.

 

[RonDawg]

Nissan's reputation continues to be tarnished. The LEAF's reputation continues to be tarnished. Its abysmal resale value is a clear indication that people know to avoid this vehicle.

The Leaf's low resale value isn't limited to the Leaf. I used Kelly Blue Book to compare values for a 2013 Leaf SV, 500e, and Focus Electric. For my area, their values were respectively $9200, 9500, and $8100. This assumes no added options, 30k miles in "Good" condition, being sold private party.

Range anxiety is still a potential worry for many new car buyers, low gas prices aren't helping sales of most BEVs, and government incentives on new EVs guarantees a minimum $7500 depreciation right off the top, on top of whatever the depreciation curve would normally be if it were an ICEV. I don't expect my eGolf to be worth much either when its lease is up a bit over 2 years from now.

According to Inside EVs, the Leaf is still the #1 selling all-electric in the US that doesn't have the word "Tesla" in it, though it has lost its previous sales lead over the Volt/Fusion Energi. However, so far this year it's outselling the #2 non-Tesla BEV, the BMW i3, by a factor of 2 to 1, much less most other BEVs. So I guess its reputation isn't that badly tarnished.

 

[sub3marathonman]

As I said; lots of people in your boat but they decided to do something as it started to list. you elected to rely on your great swimming skills, ignoring all else. your batteries have been on the decline for nearly 5 years, severely so for at least a year. Now you do know "something" about the warranty otherwise you would not have asked so cry all you want because I think you are lying to us.

If you look at the 2011 LEAF Warranty Book, it states "Warranty Coverage At A Glance (bold added)," and shows 96 months / 100,000 miles for the Lithium Ion Battery. If you've just "glanced," as Nissan stated you could do, of course, you'd miss the little 1 superscript, which basically says read the small print somewhere else in the Warranty Information Booklet. I will add that the superscript is very easy to miss, as I was at first looking at the line for the "Lithium Ion Battery Coverage" and saw no superscript where I would expect it, only when I then looked back at the "Summary of Warranty Coverage" line will you see the very small 1 superscript at the end.

So, finding the correct page, it states "to correct defects in materials or workmanship." You then have to reference another page to find out "what is not covered," and finding the heading, "Gradual Capacity Loss," it states that "Loss of battery capacity due to or resulting from gradual (bold added) capacity loss is NOT covered under this warranty." By stating that gradual capacity loss is not covered, it is logical therefore to state that non-gradual capacity loss is covered.

And, as stated by the less than sympathetic DaveinOlyWA, "severely so for at least a year (bold added)." Severely, not gradual. And, as Leafer77 pointed out during his BBB case, always receiving 5 star glowing reports about the state of his battery. (As I have the 5-star report from my 6-capacity-bar loss battery.)

So is the OP outside of the warranty, I don't think so, I believe the BBB has in a previous case, or cases, ruled that they don't think so either, and but for the OP not wanting to bother, Nissan has once again been able to side-step their responsibilities for releasing a battery in 2011 that, I would estimate, nobody on this forum would state isn't defective.

Now, in a bit off-topic "rant" (which some might say) of my own, I would like to point out that I am disheartened at the incredible disrespect, rising to what I think is even happiness, at another person's misfortune / mistake. In my opinion it is even worse when it is an obviously new member with just a handful of postings. DaveinOlyWA states, "cry all you want because I think you are lying to us." In my opinion a bold claim. Somebody else making the incredible assertion that the OP bought his LEAF to "game the system," only to decide at the end to wait a few extra days so he could practice his ranting skills with Nissan. I have seen other examples here to other people, which I always find strange given we are all supposed to be on the same side. My situation is very similar, as I was attacked within nine minutes of making my first posting on this forum, proudly called a liar, with no less than 95% certainty, by someone else (not DaveinOlyWA, and in fact back then I think he was one of the classier people involved which is another reason I find these latest postings out of character), because they had spent who knows how much time researching my previous postings on the Prius forum where I had been a member for years, and found that I had not announced I was THINKING of selling my Prius to get a LEAF, which I still find extremely creepy, and just couldn't make the intellectual leap that somebody who bought a Prius back when almost everybody else was laughing at us might be interested in a LEAF. And it has, even years later, left me with a distinct different feeling than when I was posting on the Prius forum, where things were much friendlier, but of course that was years ago too. Oh, and we still have the Prius, which has a Hymotion kit which puts us at about 90 mpg.

 

[cwerdna]

By stating that gradual capacity loss is not covered, it is logical therefore to state that non-gradual capacity loss is covered.

It was established from day 1 that gradual capacity loss wasn't covered. It only became covered per the announcement in near end of December 2012 (cited at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=462549#p462549) thanks to factors like the Phoenix media noise and range test and unbeknownst to us, a class action lawsuit that was happening in parallel.

Non-gradual capacity loss examples would be something like one or a small # of bad cells, loose connection inside the pack, some other defect that causes a sudden huge loss in capacity. We've seen a few instances of that.

So is the OP outside of the warranty, I don't think so,

Why is that? He waited until AFTER 5 years past he original in-service date to get the condition verified. His capacity warranty expired, which was arrived at due to the settlement.

Nissan has once again been able to side-step their responsibilities for releasing a battery in 2011 that, I would estimate, nobody on this forum would state isn't defective.

No. The battery isn't "defective". It still functions. Gradual capacity loss was never originally warranted.

It really does suck that we later learned of all the caveats as to Nissan's claims or that they were totally false (e.g. high temperature is murder on these batteries (e.g. Phoenix fiasco), their claim of "we don't need thermal management" was bunk, 70% to 80% remaining capacity after 10 years is a pipe dream for almost everyone except the mildest of climates, etc.)

It really does suck that the capacity warranty isn't pro-rated and legally obligates Nissan to provide nothing once you're past 5 years or 60K miles. Would be better if there was a decreasing scale of how much they'd cover the further you went past either 5 years or 60K miles. Unfortunately, the settlement didn't provide for that.

 

[Nubo]

I wouldn't call taking advantage of a crappy warranty brought on by a class action lawsuit that sold out the class "gaming the system". Whether the car needed warranty replacement of the battery under the original owner or to a savvy buyer is immaterial. Nissan put themselves in this position of pissing people off because their product was not properly tested and thus did not live up to the claims they boldly made prior to the sale.

Agree about the bold claims that Nissan (e.g. 70% to 80% remaining capacity after 10 years, we don't need thermal management, etc.) made yet they provided no capacity warranty to back it up.

The capacity warranty via the class action lawsuit is better than nothing, but I'm sure many folks here wish it were for longer in duration and/or mileage and had some pro-rating provision (e.g. we'll pay for $x or y% towards the battery if you lose 4 bars after _____ miles w/a the $ amount declining the further it's past the full coverage preiod).

The huge problem with the warranty, to me, is that it does not offer an objective criteria, only "bars", and of course Nissan has the option to program the vehicle to display "bars" by any algorithm it chooses. Smoke and mirrors.

That being said, the car is quite suitable to my needs when leased on a 3-year basis. I would not buy one though, until there is solid evidence of better pack longevity.

 

[Nubo]

Apart from your car problems, could you please have some consideration for the people who might want to read your posts?

That wall of run-on text is nearly impenetrable.

I have sympathy to your problem however I am not going to give myself a headache trying to parse through that hot mess. There is a reason people use paragraphs when writing.

Dave, You remind me of the type of individual who would say the rape of a woman was deserved, because she was wearing certain revealing clothing. Or the guy who was robbed at the ATM deserved it because he was using it after dark. There will always be twisted people out there that blame the victims. OK, to make Dave satisfied, I will state the obvious for him. Yes, I screwed up. Hell yes I did. If I could Monday Morning Quarterback as Dave proudly does, yes, of course I would have but my personal life aside and raced down to Nissan on Easter Sunday, and demanded the security guard state a sworn statement that I was there on march 27th seeking a battery test. If I knew the leaf department even existed then, I would have called them and left a message on there voicemail stating name, number, VIN, etc. Again Dave, I think everyone who read any of my posts would agree I screwed up. Did I ever state I did things correctly? No, I stated often I was 5 days late getting to counter. But why is it your goal to be against me Dave? What the hell did I do, but share my story to help others not screw up? Are you angry that I might be able to focus others on going about the final months of their 5 year limit differently? That's my goal at this point. at first I was seeking advcie, now I encourage everyone to be aware that Nissan has no sympathy to their Leaf owners stuck with the weak lemon batteries. So be aware that there is a high chance your battery will drop to that 8th bar, so don't baby that battery as you near the last months! I had no knowledge of any battery voltages to watch, etc., until coming to this helpful forum. I never knew about Leaf Spy until after the 8 bar drop, and the denial by Nissan. (Wait, let me make Dave happy again, I admit I screwed up on arriving 4 working days after deadline.) I didn't even have the purchase date in my head! Dave seems to keep bringing up my mistake of having 7 years as the deadline in my head initially (More blaming the victim) As I told Nissan, I have a life to live, I am not a slave to a damn dashboard, not a slave to upcoming deadlines or mileages. My focus is on my life, my family, (have you any siblings Dave, with disabling MS and psychological problems that erupt each holiday? You have no idea Dave...) I don't even normally drive that car. My wife does, but when I glanced at the dash that day I was off, it clicked...wait that's the 8 bar drop! I had never been to any forum previous to that! I then saw I had 43,000 miles. I knew I was well within the 60,000 mile warranty period. I thought I had plenty of time. Again to make Dave happy, I made a HUGE mistake by letting my brain think it was 7 years on the time limit. Wow how dumb I was Dave to confuse the existing battery failure 7 year warranty, with the battery capacity 5 year warranty. Guess what Dave, the second Nissan dealer that I went to that day is located in Concord Ca. I spoke to a service guy there named Shayne Shelton. After I told him that Walnut Creek told me I was 5 days late, You know what Shayne told me? "No, you are not late. You still qualify to have it replaced" He showed me the print out. It showed one battery capacity warranty was no longer on BOLD lettering (capacity warranty), yet the Electric Vehicle Lithion-Ion battery warranty was still active! He said "We just did one of these replacements. Don't worry, you're good still. We need to test your car battery though, then we notify Nissan Leaf dept. They then ship the battery to us, because we cant just order it ourselves. They have to do it after we test your battery" I was so relieved. I thought great OK lets test it! He then went on to tell me the shop delay due to epoxy coating the floors until April 12th, etc. I said that's fine, Ill be here on the 12th then , what time? I can get here at 8:30 AM after dropping son off at school. That's fine. He then logged me in. I asked for the print out on the warranty info, and he gave it to me saying here you can have this because we have it all in the computer anyhow. Great, see you next week. Guess what Dave this service technician was completely wrong, and made the exact mistake in dates that I made! I guess this service tech is as dumb as I was. Later, I called a Nissan Dealer across the Bay (At Petaluma Nissan?) and spoke to a knowledgeable woman there in service that had her facts straight. She clarified the difference in the two battery warranties. One was the capacity warranty, the other was complete battery failure, like as if a cell burned up Two different things. She enlightened me on how strict the Nissan Leaf Dept. is. She said its like moving gold from a bank to get them to send a replacement battery out. There is a test, forms, confirmations, approvals, then the battery is finally shipped from another state, etc. She also stated they are not lenient down there. and warned me what to expect. I then called Leaf Dept. and went through all the discussions with Chris I stated in earlier posts, where he confirmed that what Shayne Shelton at Concord Nissan stated to me was not true. the 7 year warranty certainly did not apply. That,s it for me on this subject, until the next BS post from Dave condemning me for not being more focused on Nissan battery facts and dates, then on my family and life.