Nissan: We Can Match Bolt

[dgpcolorado]

^Another advantage of a larger battery, for those who plan on keeping the car for a long time, is that even after considerable degradation you still have a useful range.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

When I turn this lease in, after 5 years of 24 kWhs, a 60 kWh car will seem almost limitless. Leaf 2, Bolt, used Tesla, whatever.

 

[kmp647]

I cant imagine Nissan carrying the current Leaf into the 2017 model year even with the 30kwh battery.

but they could try it, I think it would get slaughtered by the Bolt.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I cant imagine Nissan carrying the current Leaf into the 2017 model year even with the 30kwh battery.

but they could try it, I think it would get slaughtered by the Bolt.

Unless they lease it for $149 a month Yes they will likely drop the lease prices after the initial demand drops and the LEAF will get slaughtered. My guess is Nissan knows they got slapped hard and they hopefully are making changes now but they seem to move too slow. Regardless of what Tesla actually delivers it is putting big pressure on Nissan and Chevy to step up the game.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

The IDS Concept had a 60kWh pack that looked ready for production - the current Leaf pack is in the background:

 

[evnow]

but they could try it, I think it would get slaughtered by the Bolt.

30kWh Leaf S : $25k

45kWh Leaf SV : $30k

60 kWh Leaf SL : $35k

Why would any of this get slaughtered by

60 kWh Bolt (base) : $37.5k

?

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Yeah, if the top end of the range is $35k or even $37-38k, that's a much better prospect than a car that starts at $35-37k, and no risk of fed credits expiring on Leaf 2 before 2018.

 

[smkettner]

but they could try it, I think it would get slaughtered by the Bolt.

30kWh Leaf S : $25k

45kWh Leaf SV : $30k

60 kWh Leaf SL : $35k

Why would any of this get slaughtered by

60 kWh Bolt (base) : $37.5k

?

All people have to do is ask around what battery will perform better as the vehicle approaches 100,000 miles and the Bolt could outsell Nissan 10 to 1.

 

[tkdbrusco]

I will absolutely buy the biggest battery I can on my next EV. This will most likely be a model 3 since I put a deposit on one at 4AM on 3/31, but regardless of the car, I'll opt to spend thousands more if need be, even for only 10kwh more in the pack. Here's my thinking...

60kwh pack with 215 mi of range at an EOL cycle count of 1200, will get to 258K miles before being at 70% capacity or so. This will compute to 150 mi of range. This of course is still plenty for most purposes, but may not get me to superchargers for long distance travel.

But if I could get a 75kwh pack with 270 mi of range, at an EOL cycle count of 1200, I will get to 324K miles before being at 70% capacity, and that 70% will leave me with 189 miles of range, which is about what the other car would have had at 150K miles! And still plenty to get me to superchargers.

This same math works for any EV coming onto the market. Sure, the packs will be cheaper in the future if you need to replace them, but I think if they are asking for $5K for the battery uncharge, its well worth it. Tesla said that their motors will last for 500K-1M miles, so with these larger packs, its really a lifetime car.

 

[DanCar]

I think your math will work better if lease a low cost Bolt or Leaf Gen 2 and not worry about battery depreciation. In 3 years or so the next battery tech will be available, perhaps graphene batteries. The cars will depreciate quickly because the newer cars will have better batteries and or be cheaper. To lease a low cost Bolt we probably have to wait till the model 3 is in mass production.

 

[kmp647]

ARE you suggesting that Nissan may put the new 60kwh pack into the current Leaf and sell it for 2017.

as another step before the 2.0 Leaf comes out?

then you would have comparison between the 60kwh Leaf SL and the Bolt.

if nothing else was changed on the Leaf except the battery i would get the Bolt

But I already had a Leaf

 

[desiv]

if nothing else was changed on the Leaf except the battery i would get the Bolt

Are you assuming that they cost the same?
I would expect, if that happened (which I doubt, but who knows), that the Leaf would cost less than the Bolt in that situation.

desiv

 

[tkdbrusco]

I really doubt that the Leaf can support much bigger than the 30kwh pack without major modifications. The weight and size difference would dramatically change the car. There's no way that they can push it much more than 30kwh in that same vehicle. The only way that they can remain competitive to the Bolt is to embrace the lower range, decrease the price and sell it as a commuter type vehicle.

Also offering them at ridiculously low leases would be a big plus for them. If you're Nissan you want people to lease a 30kwh leaf and then come back in 3 years when the dust has settled, the tax credits are expiring, and the Gen 2 is more competitive. Add the fact the 30kwh packs will probably appear to be full capacity after a 3 year lease (not I said appear, as in 12/12 bars) and you may get more people to buy them off of lease returns. Hopefully by that point they offer the 30kwh pack as a replacement for all Leafs at a price something like $5K?

 

[Levenkay]

I really doubt that the Leaf can support much bigger than the 30kwh pack without major modifications. The weight and size difference would dramatically change the car. There's no way that they can push it much more than 30kwh in that same vehicle. The only way that they can remain competitive to the Bolt is to embrace the lower range, decrease the price and sell it as a commuter type vehicle.

Not so long ago, there was 'no possible way' to put the 24KWh battery in a vehicle of the LEAF's size. Some of the hopes for larger storage capacity presume that the battery technology itself will improve.

 

[Zythryn]

Some of you seem to be assuming Nissan hasn't already been working on the next gen Leaf.

I expect we will see something from them in dealer lots within 6 months of the Bolt hitting the GM dealer lots.
Likely 2 months.

 

[user 10599]

ARE you suggesting that Nissan may put the new 60kwh pack into the current Leaf and sell it for 2017.

as another step before the 2.0 Leaf comes out?

then you would have comparison between the 60kwh Leaf SL and the Bolt.

if nothing else was changed on the Leaf except the battery i would get the Bolt

But I already had a Leaf

My experience with Chevy vs. Nissan sends me the other way. A longer range Leaf would be very attractive.

Now, I've heard the Volt bucks Chevy's norm and people are very happy with the quality on that car. If, and that is a big if in my mind, Chevy does as good a job on the Bolt as they did on the Volt, then I will seriously consider it.

 

[TomT]

Yep, it is going to need much more than just a 60Kwh battery to be competitive with the Bolt!

if nothing else was changed on the Leaf except the battery i would get the Bolt./quote]

 

[Evoforce]

Nissan would have to prove to me that the 60kWh battery will be as durable as the Bolt in hot climates.

 

[EVDRIVER]

if nothing else was changed on the Leaf except the battery i would get the Bolt

Are you assuming that they cost the same?
I would expect, if that happened (which I doubt, but who knows), that the Leaf would cost less than the Bolt in that situation.

desiv

Except it would need new suspension and other modifications and it would also be an even slower of slow EVs with all the extra weight and the under powered motor it already has.

 

[dhanson865]

if nothing else was changed on the Leaf except the battery i would get the Bolt

Are you assuming that they cost the same?
I would expect, if that happened (which I doubt, but who knows), that the Leaf would cost less than the Bolt in that situation.

desiv

Except it would need new suspension and other modifications and it would also be an even slower of slow EVs with all the extra weight and the under powered motor it already has.

The leaf could use a motor upgrade from the 80KW in the old S/SV/SL to a 100KW in the new S and a 120 KW in the new SV/SL. Follow the Tesla model and have two or more motor sizes in addition to two or more battery pack sizes.

Edit: saw that the Bolt will have a 150KW motor. Had to bump up the numbers for the Leaf.