Nissan ESFLOW Electric Coupe Concept : The official Thread

[Spies]

Wow that was painful to watch and I am not talking about the content. They have certainly discouraged my interest in the ESFLOW, not!

 

[TRONZ]

Top Gear was just having some fun with Nissan's prototype owner "Daniel". Not sure if I can blame them. Car designers should stick to designing cool cars... not trying to design the "cool" people that will drive them. I think I remember Jeremy C. trash talking the Tesla Roadster until he drove it around their test track. He was totally smitten with the acceleration, not so happy with the cars weight (compared to Elise) and then faked running it flat to spice up the segment. The usual antics basically.

 

[Boomer23]

Too bad those guys are so blasted entertaining. Otherwise I'd find it easier to dislike them.

 

[TRONZ]

All the juicy drool worthy photos are now up at NetCarShows. Come and get your wallpapers here!

http://www.netcarshow.com/nissan/2011-esflow_concept/

 

[palmermd]

All the juicy drool worthy photos are now up at NetCarShows. Come and get your wallpapers here!

http://www.netcarshow.com/nissan/2011-esflow_concept/

I don't want wallpaper, I want a hand-raisers signup.

 

[TRONZ]

So almost a dozen sites are confirming that Nissan clearly stated the ESFlow is "production ready". One site in particular noted this wording from the Nissan official press release;

"we hope ESFLOW owners will also feel the car to be an extension of their bodies, reacting to their slightest whims. The driver must be at the centre of the sports car both physically and metaphorically."

Sounds like a strong endorsement for production to me. Often, when a manufacturer writes in the past tense, it means a production decision has already been made. Reminds me of 03. I fell in love with a radical Infiniti crossover concept nicknamed "The Bionic Cheetah". Two years later I drove home one of the very first FX45's.

 

[palmermd]

its a bit of a stretch to say that would mean they are ready for production. but I like your enthusiasm.

 

[evnow]

its a bit of a stretch to say that would mean they are ready for production. but I like your enthusiasm.

Nissan announced sometime back that they will be making 3 (5 ?) # of EVs in 3 years, IIRC.

 

[palmermd]

its a bit of a stretch to say that would mean they are ready for production. but I like your enthusiasm.

Nissan announced sometime back that they will be making 3 (5 ?) # of EVs in 3 years, IIRC.

I realize that, and I hope the decide that the esflow is one of the cars to make, but the quote referenced was part of the "Daniel the Esflow driver" marketing stuff that does not really provide much proof that they are going to build this car.

 

[LindsayNB]

I noticed that in multiple interviews Francois Bancon said that the car would have to be priced in the $35k-40k range to be successful. This is slightly different than saying they can manufacture it for that amount. I've seen several people comment on the high cost of aluminum and carbon fiber construction. Can anyone with more knowledge of auto manufacturing costs comment on whether the ESFLOW could realistically be produced and sold for $40k or less?

Does a 50% increase in range based on lighter weight sound reasonable in general or only for specific types of driving? It seems that for steady speed driving weight wouldn't be that big of a factor.

I think it's a very nice looking car but the 150mile, 240km range would the larger attraction for me.

Given the number of single occupancy commuters what are the trade-offs in achieving higher range through lower weight? I only rarely have more than two people in my car, so I would happily trade size and space for range, but none of the manufacturers have gone in that direction. Is it because the market for two seaters isn't large enough or because there are problems with designing and producing such a car?

 

[ttweed]

I've seen several people comment on the high cost of aluminum and carbon fiber construction. Can anyone with more knowledge of auto manufacturing costs comment on whether the ESFLOW could realistically be produced and sold for $40k or less?

I don't think it could be produced and sold for $34-$40K at a profit if all the exotic materials and components of the concept car were kept intact, but if the design were "dumbed-down" for production and compromises in weight and appointments made, then perhaps it could. Advances have been made in carbon fiber and aluminum production methods over the last decade--just witness the new McLaren MP4-12 @ $220K vs. the previous McLaren F1 road car @ $1M, with comparable performance metrics, but it is still not cheap to produce a car with exotic materials.

Does a 50% increase in range based on lighter weight sound reasonable in general or only for specific types of driving? It seems that for steady speed driving weight wouldn't be that big of a factor.

Low weight would make a big difference in the acceleration forces necessary, but I think low aero resistance would have a greater influence on range at highway speeds, once you have the mass up to speed.

I only rarely have more than two people in my car, so I would happily trade size and space for range, but none of the manufacturers have gone in that direction. Is it because the market for two seaters isn't large enough or because there are problems with designing and producing such a car?

The market is driving this at the moment, not design/production considerations. The first examples of mass-market EVs must appeal to the widest audience, so that's where they're starting with the Leaf, a compact family car, but there is room for expanding the line to appeal to the up-market luxury and sport segments, which the Infiniti EV and ESFLOW efforts represent, as well as the light commercial/utility and sub-compact segments. As someone mentioned, just look at the success of the Mazda MX-5, which has sold over 850,000 units since its introduction 21 years ago. We bought a Miata for my wife in 1991, and it has been a great car, satisfying 95% of our transportation needs in a stimulating, sporty manner. She would have chosen the ESFOW over the Leaf in a heartbeat, if it was available now.

This product line expansion depends on the success of their initial offering, the Leaf, the pace of EV technological advances, and the development of the infrastructure to support the widespread deployment of EVs worldwide. Only time will tell how quickly this evolution will progress. It largely depends on continuing government support of alternatives to oil-based transportation, since without subsidies, these processes would not be proceeding as quickly as they are at the moment, IMHO.

Just my $0.02,
TT

 

[ENIAC]

I haven't been able to locate the article. But a few months ago I read about a process being developed where they dope carbon fiber and create a sheet of material which can be stamped into parts just like is done today with sheet metal. The result was inexpensive and light weight body panels. We'll see...

 

[ttweed]

I haven't been able to locate the article. But a few months ago I read about a process being developed where they dope carbon fiber and create a sheet of material which can be stamped into parts just like is done today with sheet metal. The result was inexpensive and light weight body panels. We'll see...

The engineering breakthrough for the McLaren chassis construction (not body panels but the actual passenger chassis cell) was a new process called Resin Transfer Moulding (RTM). It cut the time to produce a monocoque from hundreds of hours to two. Here is an excerpt from a British driving website: (full article here)

Hence the adoption from the start of the carbonfibre ‘MonoCell’ as the MP4-12C’s central chassis component. The immensely stiff, strong, light (just 75kg) hollow one-piece structure is produced by composite expert CarboTech in Austria. Like its F1 cousin, the new McLaren road car’s carbonfibre mat is unwoven ‘non-crimp’ (that is, ‘straight lines’ of fibre, held together with cross-stitching – the ‘weave’ effect you might see for effect in many road cars is not as strong). But, instead of the pre-impregnated racing method, it’s a ‘dry’ process before liquid resin is injected into the 35-ton steel tool.

Known as Resin Transfer Moulding (RTM), the ground-breaking process produces not only a strong and light structure, it’s also one built to extremely fine tolerances – just 0.5mm across the diagonal after 5-axis, CNC machining. John Barnard was alongside Watson at Silverstone this week, and explained how carbonfibre can be built up in some places and reduced in others. Likewise, the direction of weave can have its own effect on the all-important balance of weight, safety and stiffness. The first torsional test on the 1981 MP4-1’s carbon tub proved it to be 2.5 times as stiff as aluminium, albeit slightly heavy. The second was thinner in places (so lighter) yet still twice as stiff as metal.

McLaren’s standard-setting F1, launched in 1993, was the world’s first all-carbonfibre-chassis road car. The time it took to create the tub for these cars could probably be timed in 100s of hours. Now, with RTM technology, the cycle time of a MonoCell for the MP4-12C in the two-chassis tool is just two hours. And there are no bonded or welded joints, so the bodywork is purely for aerodynamic and packaging purposes.

These kinds of production breakthroughs are what we need to see more of in the future to make "light and strong" more affordable.

TT

 

[LindsayNB]

I was looking at a picture of the esflow today and noticed it doesn't have any visible windshield wipers. I haven't seen any pictures that have a really good view though.

Is that just a concept car thing or could there be wipers hidden away there? Or is this just a weight reduction thing...

 

[Beachcliffs]

This product line expansion depends on the success of their initial offering, the Leaf, the pace of EV technological advances, and the development of the infrastructure to support the widespread deployment of EVs worldwide

Yep - this is the reason we stepped up to buy the Leaf. While not real excited about styling/size/performance, the Leaf's success is critical to the overall development of the EV market. Hopefully, in four to five years we will be able to choose between a Model S and the BMW/Mercedes/Audi/Jaguar/Cadillac/Lincoln/Lexus/Infiniti/Acura equivalent with a range in excess of 300 miles per charge.

 

[TRONZ]

A very good point. It's nice to know you've had a hand in enabling the roll-out of EV's. Even in a small way.

 

[Boomer23]

I had a chance to chat with Keiichi Kitahara, Senior Manager - Corporate Planning at Nissan today at the AQMD Zero Emission Transportation Tech Forum in Diamond Bar. In his presentation, he mentioned that the next EVs from Nissan would be a LCV (light commercial vehicle) and then the Infiniti EV, a sportier, more premium EV than the LEAF, based on the same tech as the LEAF but with a very different look. He said to look for the Infiniti in about three years. I asked him if the battery capacity or the motor power would be very different from the LEAF and he said to expect some evolutionary changes, but nothing drastically different.

I mentioned the ESFLOW to him and asked if Nissan has an actual plan for an electric sports car and he said that they don't have actual plans to build one, but he did say that when a company builds a concept car, it's clear that they have that idea in mind. So take that for what it's worth, if anything.

 

[ttweed]

I mentioned the ESFLOW to him and asked if Nissan has an actual plan for an electric sports car and he said that they don't have actual plans to build one, but he did say that when a company builds a concept car, it's clear that they have that idea in mind. So take that for what it's worth, if anything.

I take that to mean the ESFLOW is at least 5-6 years away from production, if the Infiniti EV is 3 away. :evil:

TT

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

I take that to mean the ESFLOW is at least 5-6 years away from production, if the Infiniti EV is 3 away. :evil:
TT

Or, maybe they're one and the same.

 

[Boomer23]

I take that to mean the ESFLOW is at least 5-6 years away from production, if the Infiniti EV is 3 away. :evil:
TT

Or, maybe they're one and the same.

Nah, I think (I don't KNOW) that the Infiniti will be a four door sedan. Early on, there was a report that the designers showed top management their concept for an Infiniti version of the LEAF and Ghosn rejected it and told them to go back to the drawing board because it looked too much like the LEAF. They'll heavily re-design it, but don't expect the Infiniti to be a two door sports car. At least not the first Infiniti EV.