Newbie: Range Questions 34 mile one way commute

[TonyWilliams]

$0 down with good credit - don't be suckered into making a down payment on a lease. You are renting. There's NO ADVANTAGE whatsoever for you to pay for rent ahead of time. If you want to lower the monthly payment, use that down payment money to make some of those monthly rent (lease) payments. DO NOT GIVE MONEY TO A DEALER.

Making a down payment can get you a better deal, precisely because dealers like to get cash up front. Whatever that down payment is, though, it will be lost if the car is totaled, so think of it as a gamble, and put no more down than you are willing to risk losing. My $2k down payment has more than paid for itself over the almost four years I've been leasing. Zero down is indeed the safest way to lease, but it isn't usually the least expensive.

You're not going to beat near zero cost of money, which is where we are now.

How much discount that Nissan and the dealer offer has very little impact on a down payment. Down payment is nothing but profit, normally (I used to sell cars 30 years ago).

You can't negotiate the residual (because the car is not owned by the dealer or leasee, but instead by Nissan Financial).

Don't put money down on a lease.

 

[offtosleep]

I certainly feel like you guys have provided me a crash course in leases. Thank you! I really do feel smarter. Keep it coming

 

[LeftieBiker]

You're not going to beat near zero cost of money, which is where we are now.

How much discount that Nissan and the dealer offer has very little impact on a down payment. Down payment is nothing but profit, normally (I used to sell cars 30 years ago).

You can't negotiate the residual (because the car is not owned by the dealer or leasee, but instead by Nissan Financial).

Don't put money down on a lease.

I'm not talking about 'beating the cost of money'. I'm talking about dealers offering better lease rates if they get a down payment. It's human nature, not economics. I also wrote zero about negotiating the residual, which I know is fixed, and even wrote was fixed at about 33%. Let's not get into one of those obsessive wars over details, shall we, Tony? You offer your advice, I'll offer mine. (I've also sold plenty of used cars, although not as a car salesman.)

 

[TonyWilliams]

You're not going to beat near zero cost of money, which is where we are now.

How much discount that Nissan and the dealer offer has very little impact on a down payment. Down payment is nothing but profit, normally (I used to sell cars 30 years ago).

You can't negotiate the residual (because the car is not owned by the dealer or leasee, but instead by Nissan Financial).

Don't put money down on a lease.

I'm not talking about 'beating the cost of money'. I'm talking about dealers offering better lease rates if they get a down payment. It's human nature, not economics. I also wrote zero about negotiating the residual, which I know is fixed, and even wrote was fixed at about 33%. Let's not get into one of those obsessive wars over details, shall we, Tony? You offer your advice, I'll offer mine. (I've also sold plenty of used cars, although not as a car salesman.)

Ok, how exactly are you making a dealer offer a "better lease rate", when the prevailing money factor is near zero, the residual is fixed.

Only one way... discount the cost of the car. How does a down payment do that? This is a fundamental issue, not a "detail".

 

[LeftieBiker]

Ok, how exactly are you making a dealer offer a "better lease rate", when the prevailing money factor is near zero, the residual is fixed.

Only one way... discount the cost of the car. How does a down payment do that? This is a fundamental issue, not a "detail".

Here's how it works: you offer the dealer a down payment, and the dealer lowers any excessive fees and maybe their profit a little, preferring cash up front to cash later, even if the total cash is less. The payment thus drops a little more than the down payment would lower it by itself. As a former car salesman I'm sure you understand about monthly quotas, right? I'm sure that people here have tried getting quotes for both zero down and $1500 or $2000 down, and gotten a lower cost of lease for the latter. I know I have.

Now, since you must have the last word by nature, go ahead and have it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

As a former car salesman I'm sure you understand about monthly quotas, right?

I told you what my experience was with down payments as a car salesman. Quotas don't have anything to do with cash down payments.

 

[offtosleep]

Okay guys and gals! I am driving to Phoenix tomorrow to pick up a 2014 Leaf SV. I just purchased Leafspy Pro for my iPhone. I already have a bluetooth dongle for the OBDII port. I need a crash course in what numbers I need to check before i hand over my money!

HELP!

 

[LeftieBiker]

The single most important number - IF the BMS hasn't been reset to temporally restore lost capacity bars - is the State Of Health, or "SOH." That corresponds pretty much exactly with capacity remaining, so if the SOH is 95, then the car has 95% of original capacity remaining. Hopefully someone will post an amp-hour chart that shows how many amp-hours of capacity should be showing for a given SOH, as a double-check against tampering.

 

[SageBrush]

The single most important number - IF the BMS hasn't been reset to temporally restore lost capacity bars - is the State Of Health, or "SOH." That corresponds pretty much exactly with capacity remaining, so if the SOH is 95, then the car has 95% of original capacity remaining. Hopefully someone will post an amp-hour chart that shows how many amp-hours of capacity should be showing for a given SOH, as a double-check against tampering.

@AntronX has posted that the Ahr reading is also reset. The L1/L2 and QC charges are not though, so if this is the LEAF with the battery replacement those charges should be quite low. I also agree with him that common sense should prevail: a LEAF that has lived in Phx for 2-3 years and has LEAFSpy reaadings of over 90% of new should be viewed with skepticism.

A useful test would be to simply to charge up to 80% and go for a 30 minute drive at 60 mph without A/C etc on a quiet, non-windy day. That should consume about 7 kWh; the drop in battery SoC then tells you the battery capacity when full:

Full = 7/SoC_drop

 

[LeftieBiker]

I've been reading the thread about Antronx's reset. I'm wondering if the SOH is only briefly reset, because we have several other cases in which the AH reading was correct after a reset. Maybe someone found a setting in the Consult II that resets the BMS back further than typical... It's hard to know what to tell newbies, except that while a mismatch between AH and SOH probably means a reset, matching numbers doesn't necessarily mean no reset. Very comforting! If it's a dealer, I'd get it in writing that the car will not drop any bars for 30 days, subject to the sale being voided. I doubt anyone could get a LeafSpy reading guarantee, except from a very honest, savvy dealer who specializes in Leafs...

EDIT: One thing I notice about Antron's car is it has 75,000 miles on the odometer. That may be the only example we've seen of a high mileage reset. I wonder if that comes into play...?

 

[SageBrush]

I've been reading the thread about Antronx's reset. I'm wondering if the SOH is only briefly reset,

He posted that the return to baseline of the Ahr and SOH occur in tandem.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Congrats on LEAF ownership. As expressed above, I probably wouldn't buy any LEAF that was operated in Phoenix or other hot area without the possibility of it being eligible for a new battery:

1) within 5 yr / 60,000 miles of its new car sale date
2) 4 battery capacity bars missing, or the VERY strong likelihood that a 4th bar will drop within 5 yr / 60,000 miles

The alternative is that the car was ridiculously cheap, and the required $6000 was budgeted for a new battery at some point in the future.

Anyhoo, I hope this car works out well for you. You have all the tools available, including the knowledge base right here on this form, to determine if the car will work for you.

What kind of movement have you made towards getting charging stations / electrical outlets installed at your home and workplace ?

Does this car have a 3.3kW / 16 amp onboard charger, or a 6.6kW / 27 amp charger?

 

[alozzy]

On March 27, the OP said:

Okay guys and gals! I am driving to Phoenix tomorrow to pick up a 2014 Leaf SV

So, if he stuck to plan, he's got an SV with 6.6 kw charger.

 

[offtosleep]

On March 27, the OP said:

Okay guys and gals! I am driving to Phoenix tomorrow to pick up a 2014 Leaf SV

So, if he stuck to plan, he's got an SV with 6.6 kw charger.

Got down here to Phoenix and the car was misrepresented! Now looking at a 2015 S with SOH of 98% with LeafSpy. I can get it for $11k. Need feedback fast!

 

[LeftieBiker]

Got down here to Phoenix and the car was misrepresented! Now looking at a 2015 S with SOH of 98% with LeafSpy. I can get it for $11k. Need feedback fast!

IF the car has everything you need, that isn't bad. If you'd be sacrificing features for price and SOH, then wait. Does it have the QC port?

 

[offtosleep]

Got down here to Phoenix and the car was misrepresented! Now looking at a 2015 S with SOH of 98% with LeafSpy. I can get it for $11k. Need feedback fast!

IF the car has everything you need, that isn't bad. If you'd be sacrificing features for price and SOH, then wait. Does it have the QC port?

It has QC and upgraded 6.6kw charger.

 

[offtosleep]

They also have a 2015 SV with 11 bars (SOH OF 82%).

For $12,900

 

[alozzy]

To the OP: you need to read this thread before purchasing a Leaf:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=23714

It would seem that nothing reported by Leaf Spy can be relied on to assess the health of a Leaf's battery. Basically, it's a gamble you need to be willing to take when purchasing a Leaf. Had I know this when I purchased, I probably would not have done so. Luckily, my Leaf lived out its entire life in Washington state and the battery pack seems to be OK.

Knowing now that Leaf Spy doesn't help prospective buyers choose a Leaf with a healthy battery, I would never purchase a Leaf that spent any significant time in a hot climate. It would seem that BMS resets are becoming too prevalent and there's nothing that a prospective buyer can check to know whether a BMS reset was performed.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Got down here to Phoenix and the car was misrepresented! Now looking at a 2015 S with SOH of 98% with LeafSpy. I can get it for $11k. Need feedback fast!

IF the car has everything you need, that isn't bad. If you'd be sacrificing features for price and SOH, then wait. Does it have the QC port?

It has QC and upgraded 6.6kw charger.

Then as long as the S trim works for you (You don't want one in a cool or cold climate) it seems fine.

As for LeafSpy being useless: so far we have one example that I know of where it was wrong. This may be an exception to a rule, rather than the rule being completely wrong.

 

[offtosleep]

Well gang....got some bad news. Feel like I wasted my day (3.5 hours one-way to Phoenix). Drove down to see a black 2014 Nissan Leaf SV model with 40K miles and 11 bars. Claimed he was the original owner, no accidents and in like new condition. I get there and it turns out that he's not the original owner (he's the 3rd), the paint is scratched to hell, the car has obviously been in a wreck (the drivers fender has been off/inner fender well doesn't line up/missing screws-bolts), and just totally misrepresented in general. What a let down!

So I hop on craigslist while I'm down there (in PHX) and see whats available. There is another couple I can look at, but they are ALL S models. The guy who has them runs a small dealership that ONLY sales hybrids (Prius, Leaf, BMW). I head over there he has about 10 to choose from. Most are 2014 and 2015. Most did NOT have DC quick chargers and only one had the DC quick charger plus a 6.6kw charger.

It's the one I asked about in the above post. The 2015 Nissan Leaf S had 12 bars and a SOH of 98%. It only had 3 QC and 712 L1/L2 charges. The car was originally out of California.

Long-story-short, I decided to walk away empty handed instead of getting in a rush and making an emotional decision instead of a logical one. I would rather spend $100 in fuel vs. a $10-15K mistake by getting in a hurry.

The hunt continues........