Newbie, contemplating a Leaf, have ownership questions.

[240sxguy]

I'll admit, I am a little biased toward Nissan because I have a Nissan. Haha.

I'll be upfront, I really like the idea of owning an electric car but am really wondering if I should. It's not a cost thing, it's just different and I like the idea of different. However I don't want being different to really cost me later on. I have a few concerns and that's why I signed up, because I figured a bunch of owners would have the best answers rather than the "unbiased" dealership.

1st: Value. Be honest, I don't want to drop the money to find out I'd rather of bought something else. Does anyone regret in a way, going for the Leaf rather than something else around the same price?

2nd: I am sure range anxiety is beat to death here, but of course I wonder if anyone has really missed the versatility of a petrol/diesel car? Does anyone wish they might have considered a Volt instead?

3rd: Would the car honestly make a reliable commuter? I know in principle it has very few parts, but so does the rotary engine. I just recently sold my RX7 and that in principle stuff didn't hold up too well in the real world. haha.

4th: Does the car seem to attract a lot of attention? Yes I have a lowered 240sx, but I don't really get a lot of people approaching me asking about it. Not sure I am the kind of person who wants to always talk about his car to every passer by.

5th: Is it simple enough to operate the controls? I am very un-savy regarding tech and what not. I have an iPhone, and all I do is make calls and take pictures if that gives you an idea who I am.

And then going along those lines of easy to use, has the charging and maintaining the battery been hard to get used to?

Anyway, that's really it for now, thanks! Looking forward to hearing from ya'll.

 

[downeykp]

The positives are it is really fun to drive. You do not state where you live.
There are reasons why you might want to hold off on purchasing a Leaf. There have been some issues with accelerated battery degradation. Nissan is not doing a good job of telling people this. If you live in a hot climate You should pass. Nissan is somewhat saying now that charging to 80% should always be done and not to discharge to less than 20%. That gives you a usable range of +\- 50 miles without using climate control.
If you really want one get a two year lease. If you are asking for a recommendation I would not buy one until Nissan makes all of this right. Buy a volt.

 

[240sxguy]

^^^ Hawaii... Kind of hot here. Might have to pass already?

How bad has the degradation been compared to more temperate climates? Very severe, or just a little annoying?

 

[Herm]

20% loss in 5 years is the normal, probably a bit worse in Hawaii.. your 84 mile Leaf would degrade down to 67 miles. How far is your daily commute?

The Leaf is a tech toy, if you really are not attracted to that then there is no point.

 

[mkjayakumar]

Herm-the-Troll is back ? It is insulting to say it is a 'Tech toy' for the tens of thousands of people around the world who drive their Leaf every day for all of their commute, errands and such.

Leaf is a pretty good car if you have daily need of less than 60 miles and an occasional need of 75 miles, with the understanding that the capacity will degrade by around 20 to 30% over 5 years in your area. For Hawaii it is best that you should only lease it for two years. I believe there is already a member in this forum from Hawaii.

I have not had more than a handful of people come to me and ask about Leaf, even though it has a unique styling, but that there are ICE cars which look pretty close anyway. Driving this is even more simpler than an ICE car and lot more fun. You will believe it only if you take a test drive.

But one thing for sure: Once you go EV, you will never turn back to ICE.

Volt is a great alternative, you should give a serious look.

 

[Stoaty]

For your location, I would figure on 10% loss the first year, a total of 20% loss by 3 years, and a total of 30% loss (70% capacity remaining, official "end of life") by 6 years. That's our best guess based on a model built from Nissan's own data. If that will work for you, go ahead, but I would suggest leasing rather than buying.

 

[surfingslovak]

Stoaty, these numbers look very realistic. What kind of annual mileage did you assume? Did you use Honolulu as baseline for the climate?

 

[NYLEAF]

1st: Value. Be honest, I don't want to drop the money to find out I'd rather of bought something else. Does anyone regret in a way, going for the Leaf rather than something else around the same price? My only regret is leasing in January and not this summer...I could have gotten the same exact car for less than half the price on a lease. The deals are great now.

2nd: I am sure range anxiety is beat to death here, but of course I wonder if anyone has really missed the versatility of a petrol/diesel car? Does anyone wish they might have considered a Volt instead? Only once have I opted to take my gas car on a trip rather than my Leaf, and due to a last-minute change in plans, it turned out that my Leaf could have made the roundtrip without an issue. On a few other occasions, I have gotten rides with friends that were going to the same place, allowing me to leave both of my cars at home. If the Volt came in a 5-seat or 7-seat config, I would have considered it over my Nissan Altima.

3rd: Would the car honestly make a reliable commuter? I know in principle it has very few parts, but so does the rotary engine. I just recently sold my RX7 and that in principle stuff didn't hold up too well in the real world. haha. The car is a very reliable commuter, as long as your commute is reliably within the car's range. My job just asked me to help out for a few days at a location 62 miles from my house. (I'll be taking the Altima, it seems.) The only part that I've had fail on me was a tire. The tires aren't great, but the pothole was quite big.

4th: Does the car seem to attract a lot of attention? Yes I have a lowered 240sx, but I don't really get a lot of people approaching me asking about it. Not sure I am the kind of person who wants to always talk about his car to every passer by. I have the car in Blue, which I think causes it to get more attention. Every week or so, someone gets my attention at a red light and asks me questions through their window. It's almost always the same questions, like "Is that an electric car?" (as if the license plate "EL3CTR1C" didn't give it away!) and "How many hours does the battery last?" (which is obviously not the right way to gauge battery life, but that's a bit difficult to explain before the light turns green.) I've had a few fast food drive-thru employees comment on the car; one gave me a free Frosty because of the car. A few people have approached me outside the car, but it's always because of the color, not that it's electric.

5th: Is it simple enough to operate the controls? I am very un-savy regarding tech and what not. I have an iPhone, and all I do is make calls and take pictures if that gives you an idea who I am.The controls are simple for me to use, but I'm 24, I was born into a house with multiple PCs and other gadgets. You should test drive and see what you think. If you've figured out the iPhone, you can figure out the Leaf.

See my replies in red.

 

[Herm]

Herm-the-Troll is back ? It is insulting to say it is a 'Tech toy' for the tens of thousands of people around the world who drive their Leaf every day for all of their commute, errands and such.

Lighten up, only you can decide if you are insulted.

 

[ksnogas2112]

1st: Value. Be honest, I don't want to drop the money to find out I'd rather of bought something else. Does anyone regret in a way, going for the Leaf rather than something else around the same price?

Not at all. I bought the Leaf because of what it is not because of the price. But test drive it. Car buying is a very personal choice and what's good for one person isn't for the other.

2nd: I am sure range anxiety is beat to death here, but of course I wonder if anyone has really missed the versatility of a petrol/diesel car?

It's not so much range anxiety as failure to plan or watch the behavior of the vehicle. If your demands for driving require the max range on day one then this is not the car for you. If your demands on day one are equivalent to the demand at the end of the lease/loan then it is. For me it's a 6 year loan and if I've got 50% of the range at that time then I'm still golden (btw that's about 50 miles at 100% charge). As far as 'versatility', this is my car and I don't have an ICE. However, the wife's car is a Prius and there have been two times in last 5 months that I had to ask her if we could switch because I couldn't make the distance. The next time I have to do that will be in February to go up to Omaha. It meets my driving needs 95+% of the time.

Does anyone wish they might have considered a Volt instead?

No, I wanted an all electric not a hybrid on steroids.

3rd: Would the car honestly make a reliable commuter?

Yes if you expect the range to meet your needs at the end of the lease/loan.

4th: Does the car seem to attract a lot of attention?

That's going to depend on where you are. I meet about 1 person every 3-4 weeks who has legitimate questions.

5th: Is it simple enough to operate the controls?

It's a car. You can learn as much about the in's and out's as you want or 'turn key and go'. If you're 'turn key and go' then I do recommend a lease for sure.

And then going along those lines of easy to use, has the charging and maintaining the battery been hard to get used to?

Hard, no. Fun, yes, for me at least. This forum has been a godsend of information and great bunch of guys 'n gals. I used by Nissan EVSE for the first time this weekend. Had to find a light pole with a working outlet at a park. Wasn't necessary to fill up to get home but made the ride more enjoyable with a full tank. 30 miles on a half charge battery at 70 mph...that's range anxiety.

If memory serves the general consensus for Hawaii is 1.0 on battery degradation so lease or loan should be fine. Lease if you don't have $7500 in taxable income to maximize your federal incentive. Remember highway speeds won't get you half as far as 35 mph will.

 

[TomT]

When I first got mine 20 months ago, they were very rare and I did get a number of questions and people stopping to look, etc., on a regular basis. Now, they are well known enough that the questions and attention are rare. I think it has been something like 3 months since the last time it even attracted any interest. This is in the Los Angeles area and it may be different elsewhere, of course...

4th: Does the car seem to attract a lot of attention? Yes I have a lowered 240sx, but I don't really get a lot of people approaching me asking about it. Not sure I am the kind of person who wants to always talk about his car to every passer by.

 

[Stoaty]

Stoaty, these numbers look very realistic. What kind of annual mileage did you assume? Did you use Honolulu as baseline for the climate?

I think I had 12500 miles per year, 4 miles per kwh, no parking in sun, and Hilo, HI. From memory, I think Honolulu may be a bit worse. I didn't see the OP listing his exact location... maybe I missed it.

 

[videographer]

1st: Value. Be honest, I don't want to drop the money to find out I'd rather of bought something else. Does anyone regret in a way, going for the Leaf rather than something else around the same price?

It's a little spendy, to be sure, but if you are willing to lease the rates are really low right now. I've seen $199/mo; some leaseholders report saving that much money in gas *alone* on a monthly basis.

2nd: I am sure range anxiety is beat to death here, but of course I wonder if anyone has really missed the versatility of a petrol/diesel car? Does anyone wish they might have considered a Volt instead?

I still have a petrol car, a Kia minivan. Unless I am hauling something large (or several kids) it stays parked in the driveway. One of the most pleasant surprises of Leaf ownership for me is now little gas I use *in total* since the Leaf covers easily 90% of my driving needs. I looked at a Volt, but I am 6'3" tall, and my head rammed into the roof. Sure wish GM had built a more practical car around their guts.

3rd: Would the car honestly make a reliable commuter?

I commuted in it today, so yeah. <g> How far is your commute?

4th: Does the car seem to attract a lot of attention?

Surprisingly little, even with license plates that read "SLR PWRD" (another advantage...I fuel the car from the roof of my house.)

5th: Is it simple enough to operate the controls?

Dead simple. And there is almost no maintenance to speak of...rotate the tires, check the brake fluid once a year, that's abut it.

And then going along those lines of easy to use, has the charging and maintaining the battery been hard to get used to?

It is a tad weird to remember to plug it in every night, but OTOH it's hardly what I'd call an inconvenience.

Jump in, the water's fine.

 

[Boomer23]

The car is a super-reliable commuter. As others have said, it's all about your daily driving range requirements. If you drive 50 or less miles per day, the car should last you quite well through a 3 year lease, even with expected battery degradation. Remember to include any usual side trips that you take, like lunch stops. I don't know if HI Nissan dealers are offering the kind of great lease deals available on the mainland, but a lease might be a good idea for you, especially if you aren't certain that you'll like the car long-term. Also, and easily overlooked, leasing lets you take advantage of the $7,500 Federal tax credit immediately, without worrying about whether you'll have enough taxable income to take the full deduction or if the IRS will even approve your deduction, which has been a huge problem for some buyers. You're also relieved of having to worry about resale value for a car that is not mainstream.

The one thing that surprises and worries new owners is that the "range remaining" or "distance to empty" gauge is wildly optimistic after a charge and through the upper half of its range (we call it the "guessometer" or GOM). So you get this optimistic range display of 100 miles at first, but it can drop drastically in the first 5 to 10 miles of driving, making new drivers really anxious. You learn to ignore the GOM and go more by the "fuel" bars and you learn the range your car can go with your normal driving style. So if you rent or borrow one for a long test drive, don't let this concern you too much.

You'll be surprised how quick the LEAF is at a stoplight, and how quietly it drives.

Look in the regional section on this forum for fellow HI owners. You can ask the how they like the car for use in your region.

 

[Leon]

As I close in on 30K, the questions should actually be. Do you want to stick with old, tired, jerky, slow, noisy, get to a gas station again (seriously? you pay what? Don't forget your lottery ticket) technology? I own several cars. And a diesel truck. I get cranky every time I buy gas and a two day drive costs me more than a month of ev driving. The LEAF is so smooth that the uninitiated think its interesting. After 10,000 miles, you will realize that what is interesting is that the choices are so limited when the tech is so superior. The range issues are real. They are NOT a tech problem, they are a "the manufacturer chooses not to build it" problem. If your commute fits, the cost and reliability alone point at the LEAF. If your state has good incentives (Colorado pitched in $6,000, thank you very much), it gets silly cheap. While I Love my Leaf, I militantly want more EV choices. I got a ride in a Model S and I hope the Infiniti LE has options in the battery and charging departments.... Riding in a LEAF just makes everything else in the same price range seem primitive.

 

[derkraut]

As I close in on 30K, the questions should actually be. Do you want to stick with old, tired, jerky, slow, noisy, get to a gas station again (seriously? you pay what? Don't forget your lottery ticket) technology? I own several cars. And a diesel truck. I get cranky every time I buy gas and a two day drive costs me more than a month of ev driving. The LEAF is so smooth that the uninitiated think its interesting. After 10,000 miles, you will realize that what is interesting is that the choices are so limited when the tech is so superior. The range issues are real. They are NOT a tech problem, they are a "the manufacturer chooses not to build it" problem. If your commute fits, the cost and reliability alone point at the LEAF. If your state has good incentives (Colorado pitched in $6,000, thank you very much), it gets silly cheap. While I Love my Leaf, I militantly want more EV choices. I got a ride in a Model S and I hope the Infiniti LE has options in the battery and charging departments.... Riding in a LEAF just makes everything else in the same price range seem primitive.

+1.....Well said, Leon

 

[BIGneutrino]

I'll admit, I am a little biased toward Nissan because I have a Nissan. Haha.

I'll be upfront, I really like the idea of owning an electric car but am really wondering if I should. It's not a cost thing, it's just different and I like the idea of different. However I don't want being different to really cost me later on. I have a few concerns and that's why I signed up, because I figured a bunch of owners would have the best answers rather than the "unbiased" dealership.

1st: Value. Be honest, I don't want to drop the money to find out I'd rather of bought something else. Does anyone regret in a way, going for the Leaf rather than something else around the same price? We have less than 3500 miles on our LEAF, and have not regretted the decision at all. Our gas budget went from $400 to $125 per month. Our second car, a fully loaded CX-9, is practically mothballed in our garage--only used by my wife for her short commute to work. All the weekend family-hauling duties are now done with the LEAF. There is plenty of room, too. I'm seven feet tall and we all fit for goodness sakes! Value? YES.

2nd: I am sure range anxiety is beat to death here, but of course I wonder if anyone has really missed the versatility of a petrol/diesel car? Does anyone wish they might have considered a Volt instead?I do not miss the versatility of using a vehicle with an engine. However, range anxiety is definitely still part of the ownership experience for me. Of course, some of the anxiety is due to the fact that we drive this car everywhere (plenty of Level 3 charging available in the Puget Sound region).

3rd: Would the car honestly make a reliable commuter? I know in principle it has very few parts, but so does the rotary engine. I just recently sold my RX7 and that in principle stuff didn't hold up too well in the real world. haha. No reliability concerns. You own an iPhone--it's a similar experience. It just works.

4th: Does the car seem to attract a lot of attention? Yes I have a lowered 240sx, but I don't really get a lot of people approaching me asking about it. Not sure I am the kind of person who wants to always talk about his car to every passer by. Because of my job/position, I really do not want my vehicle to draw attention. Have a white LEAF with all of the "zero emission/LEAF/etc." badging removed helps. We do get attention at the Level 3 charging stations, which is quite fun.

5th: Is it simple enough to operate the controls? I am very un-savy regarding tech and what not. I have an iPhone, and all I do is make calls and take pictures if that gives you an idea who I am. I find that the LEAF allows me to be as tech simple or complex as I want to be. I did not bother with the techie stuff much at first, but am really starting to have fun with the car's tech capabilities. Just this week, I figured out how to get the LEAF to play a trumpeting sound (on the car's interior speakers) every time I pull into our neighborhood coming home from work.

And then going along those lines of easy to use, has the charging and maintaining the battery been hard to get used to? One of the best parts of LEAF ownership for me is the aspect of figuring out/planning the charging on longer trips. My favorite days are those when 120+ miles are driven.

Anyway, that's really it for now, thanks! Looking forward to hearing from ya'll.

 

[mkjayakumar]

Leon: you forgot to add, smelly, ugly, dirty

 

[240sxguy]

Stoaty, these numbers look very realistic. What kind of annual mileage did you assume? Did you use Honolulu as baseline for the climate?

I think I had 12500 miles per year, 4 miles per kwh, no parking in sun, and Hilo, HI. From memory, I think Honolulu may be a bit worse. I didn't see the OP listing his exact location... maybe I missed it.

Yep, in Kona actually. Closest dealer is 90 miles away that has a Leaf so that's a little of my worries. I don't want to tow it with the Range Rover, it gets only 7 mpg with a trailer Everyday commute usually doesn't go past 50 miles and if it does, it's never more than 60-70.

I'll be honest, I like cars a lot and like to own not so common cars so that's why I wanted the Leaf as the commuter. It has really little to do with practicality although I am not saying it doesn't matter. I mean, I still drive my Hyundai to the market instead of the 4x4. But the main reason I want one is because it's very different. It's almost like a big toy to me right now, and although I know it's not the smartest approach, I am still fascinated.

I of course still wanted to ask a bunch of owners what it was really like though because I don't want to make a $30k mistake, haha.

Leasing, I usually buy my cars with cash, so I am not too keen on leasing though. I leased a car a few years ago and had a bad experience so that's the reason.

I appreciate the feedback very much, it helps me to get a feel for what I am looking at. The picture looks good so I think I might have to hop over to the dealer (2 hour drive) and test drive one. Thanks all so far.

Btw, I am not really tech savy but am only 21. Haha, I never did catch onto the whole social networking and gadgets thing. Machines, basketball and cars make me happy.

 

[LEAFer]

1st: Value. ... I'm seven feet tall and we all fit for goodness sakes! Value? YES.

4th: Does the car seem to attract a lot of attention? Because of my job/position, I really do not want my vehicle to draw attention.

I guess the combination (7' / LEAF) does *NOT* attract attention ??!! :shock: I'm sure you're one of the few that EASILY cleans & dries the roof during the at-home-carwash ! :lol:

(Sorry ... could not resist. No sarcasm or negativity intended.)