New, with many questions (read A LOT though first!)

[cmrandyh]

[...] leafs (leaves?) [...]

[...] leafs (leaves?) [...]

Not much of "substance" to add (though I would also recommend leasing a 2013+ and/or shipping it the 1200 miles), but grammatically, I think LEAFs is proper, given that LEAF is technically an acronym (or even better, a bacronym). LOL.

thanks for the reply about the LEAFs ! We will lease if we can. The temps here concern me.

Looks like everything has been answered already, this forum is great. I asked a ton of questions and did some research before leasing my Leaf on 4/31/14. I ended up going with a 2014 S with QC and I love it so far. I drive 30 miles on most days and occasionally 50 on a big day. I still use the trickle charger to charge the car although I plan on installing a level 2 EVSE soon. I have gone almost a full month just using my 120v wall outlet and an occasional Quick Charge at a free station near my house. Overall I am very impressed with my leaf and drive it way more than I thought I would. I put $500 down and pay $254/mo plus tax and I pretty much break even now that my wife isn't driving a Suburban around town anymore (the Subrurban is now a 3rd car for trips). We used spend about $500/mo on gas between a Mazda 6 station wagon and a Subruban and so far after getting the leaf it looks like we will spend less than $150.
I really did not expect to like this car as much as I do.

 

[boo99]

Looks like everything has been answered already, this forum is great. I asked a ton of questions and did some research before leasing my Leaf on 4/31/14. I ended up going with a 2014 S with QC and I love it so far. I drive 30 miles on most days and occasionally 50 on a big day. I still use the trickle charger to charge the car although I plan on installing a level 2 EVSE soon. I have gone almost a full month just using my 120v wall outlet and an occasional Quick Charge at a free station near my house. Overall I am very impressed with my leaf and drive it way more than I thought I would. I put $500 down and pay $254/mo plus tax and I pretty much break even now that my wife isn't driving a Suburban around town anymore (the Subrurban is now a 3rd car for trips). We used spend about $500/mo on gas between a Mazda 6 station wagon and a Subruban and so far after getting the leaf it looks like we will spend less than $150.
I really did not expect to like this car as much as I do.

bump

Yes everything was answered back in May, thanks to all again, and we ended up getting a Volt which now we are dealing with gas + electric costs so we are thinking of a trade in for a new Leaf. Still concerned with the battery and lack of thermal liquid cooling management like the Volt has but with our actual mileage, the Leaf would be more economical with the range being greater than the Volt, EV- wise that is...

 

[TimLee]

Yes everything was answered back in May, thanks to all again, and we ended up getting a Volt which now we are dealing with gas + electric costs so we are thinking of a trade in for a new Leaf. Still concerned with the battery and lack of thermal liquid cooling management like the Volt has but with our actual mileage, the Leaf would be more economical with the range being greater than the Volt, EV- wise that is...

OK, please clarify.
Did you purchase a used Volt, purchase a new Volt, or lease a new Volt?
But in any case you have been driving a Volt at ~40 miles per day for two months and now want to change your decision and trade for a LEAF?????
A Volt should do 30 miles or more electric.
You want to take a HUGE $ loss from trading vehicles after two months just to avoid using gas for <10 miles per day?
I must be missing something.
That seems ridiculous.

 

[boo99]

Yes everything was answered back in May, thanks to all again, and we ended up getting a Volt which now we are dealing with gas + electric costs so we are thinking of a trade in for a new Leaf. Still concerned with the battery and lack of thermal liquid cooling management like the Volt has but with our actual mileage, the Leaf would be more economical with the range being greater than the Volt, EV- wise that is...

OK, please clarify.
Did you purchase a used Volt, purchase a new Volt, or lease a new Volt?
But in any case you have been driving a Volt at ~40 miles per day for two months and now want to change your decision and trade for a LEAF?????
A Volt should do 30 miles or more electric.
You want to take a HUGE $ loss from trading vehicles after two months just to avoid using gas for <10 miles per day?
I must be missing something.
That seems ridiculous.

It's a used Volt.

It's not a huge loss, I got a great deal on the Volt and we would actually be breaking even with the buyer of my volt if he clears it with his wife.

It's not new as I wrote, I meant new to me as it's a first time getting a leaf. It's a 2013.

Yes Volt is getting 40+ miles but where do you get the avoid using gas for <10 miles a day from?

I never mentioned how much and besides the leaf gets way more miles than the Volt does on electric.

So all of this is us breaking even on the original price of the Volt ( just about ) and getting a leaf (cheaper than what we paid for the Volt) and with the difference we are ahead with cash we will use for bills.

So it's not so ridiculous at all.

 

[TimLee]

It's a used Volt.

It's not a huge loss, I got a great deal on the Volt and we would actually be breaking even with the buyer of my volt if he clears it with his wife.

It's not new as I wrote, I meant new to me as it's a first time getting a leaf. It's a 2013.

Yes Volt is getting 40+ miles but where do you get the avoid using gas for <10 miles a day from?

I never mentioned how much and besides the leaf gets way more miles than the Volt does on electric.

So all of this is us breaking even on the original price of the Volt ( just about ) and getting a leaf (cheaper than what we paid for the Volt) and with the difference we are ahead with cash we will use for bills.

So it's not so ridiculous at all.

OK.
You never stated how many of your Volt miles are electric.
30 of the 40 was my guess.
Reports on this vary a lot as it depends on how you drive.
If you are nearly breaking even by finding a buyer for the Volt that is paying what you paid for it two months ago then your cost for the switch is primarily sales tax and registration fees for the 2013 LEAF.
Not as bad as I would have guessed from your previous info.
Hope you like the LEAF.
Good luck.

 

[boo99]

It's a used Volt.

It's not a huge loss, I got a great deal on the Volt and we would actually be breaking even with the buyer of my volt if he clears it with his wife.

It's not new as I wrote, I meant new to me as it's a first time getting a leaf. It's a 2013.

Yes Volt is getting 40+ miles but where do you get the avoid using gas for <10 miles a day from?

I never mentioned how much and besides the leaf gets way more miles than the Volt does on electric.

So all of this is us breaking even on the original price of the Volt ( just about ) and getting a leaf (cheaper than what we paid for the Volt) and with the difference we are ahead with cash we will use for bills.

So it's not so ridiculous at all.

OK.
You never stated how many of your Volt miles are electric.
30 of the 40 was my guess.
Reports on this vary a lot as it depends on how you drive.
If you are nearly breaking even by finding a buyer for the Volt that is paying what you paid for it two months ago then your cost for the switch is primarily sales tax and registration fees for the 2013 LEAF.
Not as bad as I would have guessed from your previous info.
Hope you like the LEAF.
Good luck.

Thanx.

Yes would be kinda even.

Been getting 45 miles on the Volt but route changed to 65 miles which uses gas + electric and the Leaf should get that.

I'm still concerned with the battery and heat here. The last entire week has been 100+, just wish they did a better job cooling the battery with liquid cooling like the Volt but it is what it is.

 

[stjohnh]

... There are no leafs (leaves?)

Since LEAF is an acronym (Leading, Environmentally friendly, Affordable, Family car), the plural is LEAFs

 

[DanCar]

I think leasing a new leaf is a very good deal, but if you really want to buy a used one, you are better off buying one from a cold or mild climate, like San Fran Bay area.

 

[TimLee]

Been getting 45 miles on the Volt but route changed to 65 miles which uses gas + electric and the Leaf should get that.

I'm still concerned with the battery and heat here. The last entire week has been 100+, just wish they did a better job cooling the battery with liquid cooling like the Volt but it is what it is.

The Paul Harvey Rest of the Story moment :lol:
So you have decided to switch from the Volt because you are burning gas 20 miles a day to the range issues of the LEAF doing a 65 mile round trip commute?
Not what I would do, but to each their own.

I think you will require work place charging to make 65 miles in the winter very soon.
Based on 2011 LEAF it is nominally a 40 to 60 mile vehicle after three years of capacity degradation but in cold weather can be as low as 30 to 35 miles if you like heat.
2013 capacity degradation may be slightly better. Bit early to be certain how much better.
In general I think the Volt is a better choice for 65 mile round trip commute.

 

[boo99]

Been getting 45 miles on the Volt but route changed to 65 miles which uses gas + electric and the Leaf should get that.

I'm still concerned with the battery and heat here. The last entire week has been 100+, just wish they did a better job cooling the battery with liquid cooling like the Volt but it is what it is.

The Paul Harvey Rest of the Story moment :lol:
So you have decided to switch from the Volt because you are burning gas 20 miles a day to the range issues of the LEAF doing a 65 mile round trip commute?
Not what I would do, but to each their own.

I think you will require work place charging to make 65 miles in the winter very soon.
Based on 2011 LEAF it is nominally a 40 to 60 mile vehicle after three years of capacity degradation but in cold weather can be as low as 30 to 35 miles if you like heat.
2013 capacity degradation may be slightly better. Bit early to be certain how much better.
In general I think the Volt is a better choice for 65 mile round trip commute.

Well it would be gas than that come colder temps and that's just an avg work trip. Some days it's 75 miles or so.

Wow didn't know it got that the Leaf got that low in range, only 30 miles? I thought it's more even in winter.

That won't work in winter when my route will even be longer than the miles now. Aw well, guess either keep the Volt, get a Prius (gasp, eeek) or fix our Elantra.

 

[garsh]

Wow didn't know it got that the Leaf got that low in range, only 30 miles? I thought it's more even in winter.

It is. I regularly get 60+, even on the coldest winter days. Even with a 2.5yo car. TimLee is just being overly paranoid on your behalf.

 

[TimLee]

It is a matter of perspective.
A bit of my perspective is due to a bit faster degradation due to multiple 104 F days during one really hot summer.
But there are different perspectives on vehicle use too.
Some routinely arrive home with low battery warning or very low battery warning and have turtled the LEAF several times.
I don't.
Some think driving long distances in the winter with no heat is OK.
I don't.
It is up to the OP to carefully review their perspective and determine if the LEAF is right for them.

Yes, some are still doing 60 miles on a 2 1/2 year old LEAF.
But the OP needs to be sure they understand what that takes and that they are willing to do that.
Some are very zealous and willing to do that.
Many of those participating on MNL are very zealous.
But not every LEAF potential driver is.
There are way too many MNL threads where people got a LEAF and it just did not work for what they wanted to do with it.
Starting with Google employee three years ago who learned a LEAF won't do 75 miles at 80 mph in the HOV lane, even when brand new.

 

[LeftieBiker]

As someone who wouldn't drive any distance with no heat in Winter, but who lowers the heat to 67 or 65 and uses a heated throw if *necessary*, I'll note that my current Winter range in extreme cold is about 50 miles. This means getting into Low Battery territory, but never Very Low Battery range. I'm still - just - at 12 bars, so with 11 bars it would be somewhere around 40 miles. This is in mixed driving, with max speed about 55MPH in the cold.

 

[TimLee]

I am thrilled we now know what the cost of a new battery should be. When the hassle of charging along the way gets to be too much, I may replace my 2011 battery or I might start using the 2014 that is already sitting in my driveway.

All of that being said, I am a firm believer that the LEAF is a perfect car for someone driving less than 50 miles a day and I highly recommend it to anyone in that situation.

Some interesting commentary on LEAF range from Steve Marsh, "TaylorSFGuy", the world's most experienced LEAF driver with 123,000 miles on his 2011 LEAF.
Yes, my 30 to 35 miles in the winter is a bit conservative, Steve tolerates driving in a cold car better than I do.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168&start=390#p380024" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
OP and others need to understand that the range capabilities of those driving relatively new LEAFs is a lot different than most of the people driving three year old LEAFs.

 

[ksnogas2112]

@boo99....the 30 miles in winter is definitely dependent on battery temp. In super cold 0 and sub 0 winters with 1-3 battery temp bars you get no regen when braking so in addition to the cold battery not holding as much energy, you're not regenerating when stopping. Additionally, iirc a cold battery is not as efficient in transfer of energy to the motor. No flames on that last one i'm totally willing to be wrong.

if you can go with only using the heated steering and seats you can definitely get by even in sub zero. once you turn on the heater in those temps all bets are off on the range. during summer i'm averaging 5-5.5 miles/kWh. Last winter in subzero temps with the heat blasting the same general area I was getting 1.5 miles/kWh.

just additional information. btw, the location for me is kansas city.

 

[LeftieBiker]

if you can go with only using the heated steering and seats you can definitely get by even in sub zero. once you turn on the heater in those temps all bets are off on the range. during summer i'm averaging 5-5.5 miles/kWh. Last winter in subzero temps with the heat blasting the same general area I was getting 1.5 miles/kWh.

Last Winter, in Upstate NY, in *windy* subzero temps, I was able to use the heat (set to 67-70) and still get over 40 miles' range. You have to keep both the thermostat and fan speeds low, but you *can* use the heat. Under those conditions I got about 2.7 M/KWH.