New Leaf 2016 SL, Bad Battery?

[Cryptizard]

LeafSpy screenshot when my Leaf is at turtle. As you can see, all the "good" cells are within 15 mV or so of each other while the bad one is 680 mV lower. The other two cells that are also weak are noticeably lower than the good cells, but still substantially higher than the one extremely weak one. The battery still has 25% charge left but is not capable of using it because the one cell is dead.

 

[Firetruck41]

I would do research on your states lemon law and also check into what might be accomplished through small claims court.

 

[Reddy]

LeafSpy screenshot when my Leaf is at turtle. As you can see, all the "good" cells are within 15 mV or so of each other while the bad one is 680 mV lower. The other two cells that are also weak are noticeably lower than the good cells, but still substantially higher than the one extremely weak one. The battery still has 25% charge left but is not capable of using it because the one cell is dead.

I'm sorry that's a bad battery. Sue them and anyone in any court will confirm it. Just start the process, Keep good notes, videos, whatever. Send everything to Nissan by registered mail with return receipt. Request and accept no less than full battery replacement or a new car with all of your expenses covered.

 

[DaveEV]

While I don't disagree that here is definitely a bad cell-pair in the pack, you may not be losing 20%+ of your range.

With the rest of cells sitting at 3.5V at rest, the other cells are under 10% SOC.

To confirm this, grab a LeafSpy screengrab at 10% SOC intervals and plot it out. Then compare to another known good 30 kWh pack.

 

[Cryptizard]

While I don't disagree that here is definitely a bad cell-pair in the pack, you may not be losing 20%+ of your range.

With the rest of cells sitting at 3.5V at rest, the other cells are under 10% SOC.

To confirm this, grab a LeafSpy screengrab at 10% SOC intervals and plot it out. Then compare to another known good 30 kWh pack.

I have no idea how to get another "known good 30 kWh pack", but you are right it would be helpful. I am only going by what LeafSpy says, that the overall pack has 23% SOC when it is completely dead.

 

[jbuntz]

Here is what my battery looked like at Turtle, but it is not what I would call a known good one.

AHr= 70.76 SOH= 89% Hx= 85.61% 300.78V 0.73A

min/max/avg 3.087 3.133 3.195 (108 mV)

SOC= 0.1%

 

[DaveEV]

Someone else with a 30kWh LEAF and LeafSpy can get the data to compare...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Here is what my battery looked like at Turtle, but it is not what I would call a known good one.

AHr= 70.76 SOH= 89% Hx= 85.61% 300.78V 0.73A

min/max/avg 3.087 3.133 3.195 (108 mV)

SOC= 0.1%

wow, how did you get SOC so low?

 

[jbuntz]

It was kind of strange. I turned into my neighborhood with about 10 GIDs remaining so I drove around until it got to about 6 and then it went back up to 9 so I drove around some more and pulled into the garage as the Turtle lit up with 5 GIDs showing.

 

[SageBrush]

Okay, so the final word from Nissan is that the battery cells with lower voltage are definitely causing the reduced range but that it is not outside of allowable parameters. They will not fix it.

Nissan is acting very poorly, and I hope you continue to press them to wise up.

In the meantime, can you find out ALL the parameters and thresholds that would invoke the battery defect warranty ?
Perhaps we can help you identify a parameter that has crossed the threshold, or help you push the car into that territory.

Regarding the latter, I wonder whether higher or lower temperature packs would push the bad cell voltage deltas even further. If higher, I suggest you QC to 100% while running AC at full and all the accessories you can bear on full.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Okay, so the final word from Nissan is that the battery cells with lower voltage are definitely causing the reduced range but that it is not outside of allowable parameters. They will not fix it.

Nissan is acting very poorly, and I hope you continue to press them to wise up.

In the meantime, can you find out ALL the parameters and thresholds that would invoke the battery defect warranty ?
Perhaps we can help you identify a parameter that has crossed the threshold, or help you push the car into that territory.

Regarding the latter, I wonder whether higher or lower temperature packs would push the bad cell voltage deltas even further. If higher, I suggest you QC to 100% while running AC at full and all the accessories you can bear on full.

in a defective cell situation, I think the better tactic is putting pressure on that cell. run your SOC to turtle. The lower the SOC, the greater the voltage delta. I have to think you are pretty close to setting off a code.

 

[SageBrush]

I think it is a mistake to talk about reduced range with Nissan, because it frames the discussion as a battery aging problem which it is NOT.
This is a defect in manufacturing, based on usable kWh seen in LEAFSpy. Can Nissan document the same using their methods or available car information ?

 

[Cryptizard]

in a defective cell situation, I think the better tactic is putting pressure on that cell. run your SOC to turtle. The lower the SOC, the greater the voltage delta. I have to think you are pretty close to setting off a code.

Unfortunately I have no idea what that magical threshold is that would cause them to actually do something about it. I wish I did. Maybe I'm only off by a few mV, or maybe hundreds. No way to know.

 

[Cryptizard]

I think it is a mistake to talk about reduced range with Nissan, because it frames the discussion as a battery aging problem which it is NOT.
This is a defect in manufacturing, based on usable kWh seen in LEAFSpy. Can Nissan document the same using their methods or available car information ?

Yes the last technician I took it to was a really good guy and he said he documented the same voltage differentials with their tools and sent all the info to Nissan engineering. They still responded by saying that it was "within tolerances". That was at low battery but not turtle though, I think the differential was something like 250 mV at 6% charge (as indicated by the dash, the SOC was something like 30%).

 

[SageBrush]

I think it is a mistake to talk about reduced range with Nissan, because it frames the discussion as a battery aging problem which it is NOT.
This is a defect in manufacturing, based on usable kWh seen in LEAFSpy. Can Nissan document the same using their methods or available car information ?

Yes the last technician I took it to was a really good guy and he said he documented the same voltage differentials with their tools and sent all the info to Nissan engineering. They still responded by saying that it was "within tolerances". That was at low battery but not turtle though, I think the differential was something like 250 mV at 6% charge (as indicated by the dash, the SOC was something like 30%).

Nissan's handling of this makes me angry on your behalf.

There is no "tolerances" issue here. That is complete and utter bullshit.
A new 30 kWh car has ~ 28 kWh usable battery capacity.
Yours has less than 20 kWh usable.

End of story. Finito. Battery swap or lemon -- they decide.
If you are willing to post your name and VIN I will write to Nissan Corporate on your behalf and I bet a lot of other LEAF owners on this forum would too. It will make a "great" news story, if Nissan wants to go there.

 

[Cryptizard]

End of story. Finito. Battery swap or lemon -- they decide.
If you are willing to post your name and VIN I will write to Nissan Corporate on your behalf and I bet a lot of other LEAF owners on this forum would too. It will make a "great" news story, if Nissan wants to go there.

i am actually going to contact some media outlets to see if I can get the word out about this. Not so much for my own situation but for the other people Nissan might be doing this to that don't have the time/knowledge to investigate it themselves. I don't mind posting my VIN at all, but I am away from my house tonight. I will do it tomorrow.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

in a defective cell situation, I think the better tactic is putting pressure on that cell. run your SOC to turtle. The lower the SOC, the greater the voltage delta. I have to think you are pretty close to setting off a code.

Unfortunately I have no idea what that magical threshold is that would cause them to actually do something about it. I wish I did. Maybe I'm only off by a few mV, or maybe hundreds. No way to know.

you should get a dash that would remind you of the Vegas strip or maybe a Christmas tree...

 

[Jedlacks]

End of story. Finito. Battery swap or lemon -- they decide.
If you are willing to post your name and VIN I will write to Nissan Corporate on your behalf and I bet a lot of other LEAF owners on this forum would too. It will make a "great" news story, if Nissan wants to go there.

i am actually going to contact some media outlets to see if I can get the word out about this. Not so much for my own situation but for the other people Nissan might be doing this to that don't have the time/knowledge to investigate it themselves. I don't mind posting my VIN at all, but I am away from my house tonight. I will do it tomorrow.

What do you think will happen if you go on the local news channel to complain about a Leaf? 97% of the people watching are not EV drivers, so all they would say is "tough crap". You will get more attention on here than anywhere else, and none of us are willing to sell our cars in solidarity with you.

The only option you have is to contact Nissan at 1-1, Takashima 1-chome, Nishi-ku, Yokohama-shi, Kanagawa 220-8686, Japan
TEL +81-45-523-5523. You are speaking to techs and others at the dealer who are powerless, or simply unwilling to help you. And your solution is to call the local news?? They care more about Trump than they do about you and your fringe car purchase. Well, I stand corrected... you maybe will join a handful of people on here who have tried for a long time to spearhead a boycott of Nissan.

We are now on two separate threads of you and your defective battery. Please... call Nissan or write all the Board members including Ghosn. I did a simple web search and found all the local reps including Ghosn's contact info. http://elliott.org/company-contacts/nissan/

Just write the darned letter copying everybody.

 

[Cryptizard]

in a defective cell situation, I think the better tactic is putting pressure on that cell. run your SOC to turtle. The lower the SOC, the greater the voltage delta. I have to think you are pretty close to setting off a code.

Unfortunately I have no idea what that magical threshold is that would cause them to actually do something about it. I wish I did. Maybe I'm only off by a few mV, or maybe hundreds. No way to know.

you should get a dash that would remind you of the Vegas strip or maybe a Christmas tree...

The person assigned to my case at Nissan corporate just randomly called me and said that they are approving a buyback. I have no idea what changed, I was still preparing my BBB arbitration form and I hadn't contacted them for weeks. Either way, finally getting somewhere. Now I just have to figure out what car I want instead. Would like to get a Bolt but the Chevy dealers near me say they won't have them until next year :-(

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The person assigned to my case at Nissan corporate just randomly called me and said that they are approving a buyback. I have no idea what changed, I was still preparing my BBB arbitration form and I hadn't contacted them for weeks. Either way, finally getting somewhere. Now I just have to figure out what car I want instead. Would like to get a Bolt but the Chevy dealers near me say they won't have them until next year :-(

good deal and likely a win win. I am sure they are interested in finding out what caused your problem in the first place and it would be cheap and easy for them to replace the single module after their investigation so not like they are losing a lot here. Its not like the car is worthless.

As far as the Bolt; they released a time table for distribution. out of state sales are no longer allowed, etc. where are you? again a forum that does not require location is simply STIPID... (sp is fine)