NEMA 14-50 outlet, 240v, Permit?

[coach81]

My fully licensed and bonded electrician did a superb job on my installation. I do not plan to ever sell my house, I have homeowners insurance if anything goes crazy with it.. including an electrical fire I will get a substantial amount of money to rebuild, buy etc..

I will not worry about a permit for my installation.

 

[Baltneu]

I would think that when hiring a licensed professional, that he/she would know and follow the local rules and requirements for when permits are required.

I carry a 2 million dollar umbrella liability policy to cover any crazy unexpected legal issues. Cheap insurance.

Flyct
Your second point is a good one, not sure it would apply here, but not 100% sure

Electricians know the rules but take shortcuts

Edit:
On second thought your umbrella policy also known as excess liability will be worthless in this case if your homeowners insurance denies the claim. The only time the umbrella policy kicks in is when the liability or claim exceedes your basic policy.

 

[Baltneu]

My fully licensed and bonded electrician did a superb job on my installation. I do not plan to ever sell my house, I have homeowners insurance if anything goes crazy with it.. including an electrical fire I will get a substantial amount of money to rebuild, buy etc..

I will not worry about a permit for my installation.

Glad you are not selling.
I also had a top notch electrician and installation job, but if there is an electrical fire , and I realize the probability is small, when you put in a claim to the insurance co and they determine you violated your building code by not having a permit, they will turn around and say “ not insured” and will deny your claim.
Only you can decide if this risk is worth it. Also, if you argue what I call the “stupidity” reason, they may feel sorry for you but will not pay. Only you can decide if it is worth the risk.

 

[baustin]

My fully licensed and bonded electrician did a superb job on my installation. I do not plan to ever sell my house, I have homeowners insurance if anything goes crazy with it.. including an electrical fire I will get a substantial amount of money to rebuild, buy etc..

I will not worry about a permit for my installation.

Glad you are not selling.
I also had a top notch electrician and installation job, but if there is an electrical fire , and I realize the probability is small, when you put in a claim to the insurance co and they determine you violated your building code by not having a permit, they will turn around and say “ not insured” and will deny your claim.
Only you can decide if this risk is worth it. Also, if you argue what I call the “stupidity” reason, they may feel sorry for you but will not pay. Only you can decide if it is worth the risk.

How many claims have you actually seen denied without evidence of an intentional act by the insured?

Insurance laws vary by state. The insurance policy and insurance agent for that policy are two of the best sources of information on what is covered and under what conditions a claim would be denied.

No one is telling you to not get a permit. There are questions about whether or not a permit is actually needed. You did not answer the questions posed about the electrician you hired and any discussions about a permit.

 

[Baltneu]

...

3. Insurance. On the unlikely event, the outlet caused a fire and my unit ( I am in a townhouse) and the unit next to mine burns down or has fire damage, the insurance carrier could say I am not covered because I did not have a permit. This latter point has me more worried than the above points.

...

This is a myth that swirls around the internet and is perpetuated by posts like this. Insurance covers stupidity. It is there to covers the costs when something happens. For insurance to deny a claim, there has to be evidence of an intentional act by the insured to cause damage. There may be some policies with payout prevention clauses, but they are not as common as people are led to believe. If you have questions, read your policy or contact your insurance agent.

Did you verify the electrician is properly licensed to perform work in your jurisdiction? If so, and no permit was discussed, that needs to be reported, if a permit is actually required for the work that was done. Did you question the electrician about a permit?

When you go see about the permit, tell them you are installing the type of outlet that would be used to plug in a motor home, which is a common use for the 14-50 outlet. A permit and inspection for the work you had done should be less than $100 (in many places). It is possible they misunderstood and think you want to replace the whole electrical panel, which would explain the $450 permit fee.

I thought I answered these questions.
Yes, licensed electrician.
No permit discussed.
I was told by town official I need permit.
I was told by town official that the homeowner could pull the permit if I did the work, however, if electrician did work, electrician had to pull the permit.

Edit:
I found this article, I thought a good read:
http://media.iccsafe.org/news/eNews/111208/inspections.html

Anyone who wants to battle the insurance company at time of claim, well good luck to them.
I would rather be safe than sorry, but that is me.

 

[gatedad11]

OK, you are quoting an article that is comparing apples to oranges. Insurance policies do not generally cover construction defects. They are meant to cover sudden, accidental damages. I have posted on other forums(in regards to UL vs.non UL listed EVSE) that an insurance policy has very explicit language regarding "Perils Insured Against" and "All Risk" coverage. If your H/O policy is "All Risk", and most decent policies are, that means the structure is covered for any and all possibilities unless it is expressly stated that it is excluded. Yes, there are a number of exclusions, but actual inadvertent damage(such as a fire)is typically covered. Fire is one of the most basic(historically where H/O insurance originated by Benjamin Franklin)risks and is usually given the highest priority. Might a carrier cancel your policy after a claim? Depends on the state, but sometimes they can. In any event, you are paying for coverage, the company accepted your money. You have a fire, they have to pay. If you are unsure, read your policy for exclusions. Your agent may be able to help(unfortunately many will tell you something is covered and yet they really are not that up to date on coverages) but the policy is always your go-to way to confirm.

Having said the above, I am not encouraging people to hire contractors who don't go the permitting route. Just know your rights!

 

[Baltneu]

OK, so I know we are going back and forth on this, so I called my State Farm agent.
I asked if I put in a 240 volt line/receptacle, etc and it caused a fire and damage and was not permitted, would I be covered, and she said YES!

She did tell me that they would go back to the electrician and subrogate the claim for not doing the proper permitting. But that would not be my problem, they would still pay me. She also told me that I do not have to use an electrician but could do it myself.

She did say that the problem I could have is on re-sale and a prospective buyer balking about the work.

She told me of a client that did electrical work in an attic, done by an electrician with no permit, and the sale was delayed because the buyer demanded the electric work to be ripped out and redone. OK, this is not a single outlet problem, but just an instance. Probably a very very small number.

 

[lashlee]

My process was fairly painless. My panel is right above the outlet in the garage, plus the fee for the permit was so cheap it was a no brainer. The only thing the inspector said to me was "you're not an electrician, you can tell from how neat the work is." The remainder of his time at my home was spent talking about what I would use the outlet for. Cheap to do, and peace of mind means a lot to some people. As for the OP, do what you feel is necessary especially considering the relative cheap dollar amount now compared to the consequences in the long run if something goes wrong.

 

[tesleaf]

my commute is only 24 miles each day.
I have been charging from 110V outlet since I got my leaf last Oct.
I called a couple of electricians but the scheduling didn't work out. I left it at that.
I am too cheap to get a 240V outlet installed, I guess. :lol: