need un biased opinion

[Nubo]

The concept of "concessions" is different for everyone based on personal preferences and circumstances. My commute is only about 26 miles round trip and so it's hard for me to weigh in on experience. In fact I find it interesting to consider how I would deal with a commute of 50-60 miles.

I am so happy to not be using gasoline that I think I could live with the few minor adjustments necessary to ensure a reliable commute of that distance. There have been times when I've chosen side roads, etc. when making longer trips. I don't find that a terrible thing; actually I find it enjoyable. I think there is a certain emotional component that goes along the lines of "no self-respecting American would drive the speed limit or take a side road when they could be bombing down the interstate at 80 mph". I guess it depends on how strong that emotional tug is for you. Will it really bother you to be the only car travelling at the speed limit, etc...?

For me, driving within the LEAF envelope tends to remind me of what a miracle motorized transportation really is. To effortlessly travel 100 (or 60 ) miles... So far that miracle has been enough for me. I ride bicycle as well, which tends to reinforce that notion also. On a bicycle tour a couple of years ago, I visited my sister-in-law at about the halfway point. She drove me to dinner in a very old and very tired Rav4. While many people may have looked at that car and seen "junker", after several days of cycling I was suddenly struck by its awesomeness. I remarked something along the lines of "wow, we're going 50 miles per hour and we're not even pedalling"! She thought I was joking.

 

[tledford]

Warning... incoming wall of text. You see, now you have forced me to register for yet another forum. A pox on your hides as I now have to keep up with another password. However, I am forced to ask a question. Periodically I see people who give their ranges as some in this thread and I have to ask... What are you doing??? I am sincerely interested. Are you pulling a horse trailer? You know those claims of 100 miles on a charge? I get about 10 miles on top of that... every day (the average.. I don't actually drive 110 miles a day.. gak). Here's my daily information. It is unchanging (my carwings is a big boring flat mileage bar graph). I drive a considerable distance every day. Round trip my commute is right at 70 miles. Since I do drive so far, I go past most anything that I would like to stop at which means my drive distance really doesnt vary more than a mile. I charge only at home.. TO 80% ONLY. Save your gasping... I have a long history with batteries and their capabilities. I get to work and back without going into low battery (I usually end up at home with about 12-15 miles left). Again, this is on 80% charge. I am also well aware of any charge stations along the way that I can stop at if my usage varies by so much as 5 miles. However, as to date it has been rock solid. I imagine that as I get a couple of years in to this I will be forced to charge to a higher percent to make the trip, but by then I hope to have convinced my company to let me buy some juice from them during the day.
Me and the wife were fortunate in that on top of the $7500 from federal, our state (GA), is throwing on an additional $5,000. We also bought a 2011 model (orphan) from the lot and they gave us $2000 off the sticker price. It was a loaded SL with the quick charger. We lucked out. Our leaf effectively cost us about $19,000. With us it was never about saving the environment . We wouldn't have cared if it was pulled by a team of baby harp seals... the cute white ones. We weren't trying to save the world.. just a little money. With our now non existent gas bill of $400 a month, we are making a killing. So, the timing was right... the price was right and the range is fine. Yes, I wish I had EV1 range (A Pox on you GM!), but that will come. In the meantime, I will whisper along with what I can easily say is the best purchase I have ever made in my life. Oh and GM? Are you listening? Lean in close... I will never buy your crap again. I love how close the Volt is to a truly great idea; it's a great car. However, GM will never see another dime from me. You only get to fool me once. End Rant. Buy a Leaf. Be happy.

 

[Alric]

The simple answer to the original question is that the LEAF will be ideal for the commute. Having other vehicles available covers the rare long trip or errands after work.

 

[IBELEAF]

This all depends on what you qualify by "ideal". My ideal commute would be where I don't have to worry about my speed when on freeway or whether I can have a heater on in order to make it. Best suggestion would be just renting a Leaf to try out on your commute to make a decision if you'll be comfortable with it.

 

[Boomer23]

I live in Hawaii and posted earlier if I should even get a leaf in the first place. Best response I had on this post was taking side trips, YES ,many times during lunch I need to take a trip to the store or meeting that could possibly add 10-15 miles and possibly take me to a range anexity levels. My commute is normally heavy traffice for most of it really slow 10-15 mph

With speeds like that, you should have no problems with range. With solar power at home, you'll have free fuel, especially if your utility offers TOU rates. LEAF is a no brainer on those counts.

Have you test driven both cars? The Volt has serious space limitations in the back seat and the luggage area is open to the car's interior, so your cargo isn't isolated from the interior.

However, the Volt feels more sporty to drive, and you're sitting lower in the car. As a Porsche lover, you might like the driving position in the Volt better.

Test drive them both and see which one calls to you more.

 

[surfingslovak]

You don't need L2 at work, L1 should work fine. Maybe they would consider putting in 3-4 120V plugs for anyone to use ? Cheap, and it's not for your personal use exclusively.

Yes, we had whole row of 120V at my workplace. Everyone plugged in on arrival in the morning, and recovered more than enough range by the time they left the office. This worked quite well. Once we installed 240V charging stations, I would often wait until late afternoon before plugging in, since I didn't want to have the car sit fully charged all day, and those with longer commutes needed the charge more than I did.

Consider helping the EV revolution now, instead of waiting.

Yes, exactly. I think that your range expectations are quite realistic, and you should be able to make it roundtrip on a single charge. My recommendation is to get an opportunity charge whenever you can. Especially at work, and even if it's just a simple 120V outlet. The Volt is a great car, but don't forget that there is gas anxiety as well. I often see Volt owners wait for a charge before going home, since they don't want to use any gas. This is harder to do, and requires more frequent plugging in, since their usable battery capacity is about half of what the Leaf has. The Leaf has a range extender as well, if you ever needed it. It's called the tow truck, and it's free courtesy of Nissan ;-)

 

[Nubo]

...
Round trip is 57 miles some elevation changes. I test drove the leaf the distance and it made it with about 13 miles left on the charge. I was driving normally no rain no heater with AC.

The volt would let me get to work 27 miles then about 1/2 way back then gas powered for the last 13 miles. Then charge again at home.

You need to apply a similar factor to the Volt. If the LEAF's range on your test was 70 (vs. the nominal 100), then you could probably expect around (70% * 40), or 28 miles of electric drive from the Volt.

 

[surfingslovak]

You need to apply a similar factor to the Volt. If the LEAF's range on your test was 70 (vs. the nominal 100), then you could probably expect around (70% * 40), or 28 miles of electric drive from the Volt.

I see where you are headed with this, but unfortunately this calculation is not correct. The Volt has pretty much exactly half the usable battery capacity of the Leaf. All things being (roughly) equal, it will get half the electric range. This is confirmed by EPA's range estimate of 35 miles for the Volt and 73 miles for the Leaf. Therefore, you can assume half of Leaf's range for the Volt if driven with the same efficiency and identical route.

...
Round trip is 57 miles some elevation changes. I test drove the leaf the distance and it made it with about 13 miles left on the charge. I was driving normally no rain no heater with AC.

You test drove the Leaf. Very good! Would you remember how many segments were left on the battery gauge? Was it one of two segments? Since you were going uphill for the last bit, you should take the remaining range estimate with a grain of salt. I believe that your total range in the Leaf would be between 77 and 80 miles. And the Volt would get between 37 and 40 miles. Did you test drive it as well?

 

[billvon]

I drive 51 miles of 65+ MPH driving to get to my office in Sorrento Valley.

Where do you live? Temecula?

Lake Hodges area. About 25.5 each way, entering at the Del Lago ramp, exiting at the Mira Mesa construction debacle.

Ah, OK. So that's round trip mileage.

 

[tcherniaev]

I just want to remind those of you who live in California that Leaf does suffer from a significantly reduced range in cold weather. And by cold weather I don't mean that it may snow a couple of times per year. When it hits 0 F outside and you want to stay reasonably comfortable inside, and the car has been sitting outside in the snow unplugged, your range may drop to 40 miles if you get going on the freeway at 70 mph.

 

[SanDust]

You need to apply a similar factor to the Volt. If the LEAF's range on your test was 70 (vs. the nominal 100), then you could probably expect around (70% * 40), or 28 miles of electric drive from the Volt.

Very bad math. Apples to apples the adjusted number for the Volt is 35 and for the Leaf 72. So roughly half. However that overstates the advantage for the Leaf. Unless you like living dangerously you don't want to drive into the garage with 0 miles of range left. You want a buffer. With the Volt the gas generator is the buffer so it's not an issue in taking the battery flat. Plus the Volt is more efficient at higher speeds because of it's overdrive gearing (the EPA cycle won't show the advantages of this very much but you will see it in real world driving).

I have a friend who has had both for almost a year now and he says he thinks the real world difference is 40 miles for the Volt and 55 miles for the Leaf. His Leaf range is consistent with what I'd say. I can get more range in the Leaf than that, and I'm sure he can also, but to get more range I'm really thinking about how I'm driving and getting a LB warning at the end of the day to boot.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

its all in what your are comfortable with and what you are willing to do to make it work. my comfort level is 70 miles in Winter, 85 miles in Summer.

in both cases, i can do better if i want to, or worse. in either case, when i think "do i want to drive 65-70 and take the Prius, or drive 55-60 and take the Leaf?"

i look at the gas bill and guess who wins?

April stats; Prius 1387 Miles for a mere $121
or
Leaf 1325 miles for thirty bucks

 

[davewill]

I have a friend who has had both for almost a year now and he says he thinks the real world difference is 40 miles for the Volt and 55 miles for the Leaf. His Leaf range is consistent with what I'd say. I can get more range in the Leaf than that, and I'm sure he can also, but to get more range I'm really thinking about how I'm driving and getting a LB warning at the end of the day to boot.

A LB warning is entirely reasonable since there's still plenty of range left at that point. I know you enjoy being the naysayer on here, but to suggest a 55 mile range for the LEAF is simply being disingenuous.

 

[SanDust]

I know you enjoy being the naysayer on here, but to suggest a 55 mile range for the LEAF is simply being disingenuous.

Hopefully you understand that a realist in a land of "Enthusiasts" would be a "Naysayer", relatively speaking.

I didn't say that the Leaf range is 55 miles. What I said was that this is what you can get without thinking about it. For 95% of the population in SoCal I think that's an accurate and reasonable benchmark for a relatively new battery and charging to 100%. YMMV.

 

[surfingslovak]

I have a friend who has had both for almost a year now and he says he thinks the real world difference is 40 miles for the Volt and 55 miles for the Leaf. His Leaf range is consistent with what I'd say. I can get more range in the Leaf than that, and I'm sure he can also, but to get more range I'm really thinking about how I'm driving and getting a LB warning at the end of the day to boot.

While I agree that Nissan has shot way past the target with both their battery care recommendations and the design of the guessometer, I would have to beg to differ. You are giving the Volt more credit than it deserves, and discounting the capabilities of the Leaf. The EPA number for the Leaf assumes a 3.5 miles/kWh energy economy on the dash (73 miles / 21kWh). Most of us here in California see a much better number, and this is a fairly conservative target.

Assuming 17.7 kWh of usable capacity until the low battery warning, and 3.5 miles/kWh, you get about 62 miles of range. The Volt with its 10.4 kWh usable capacity would get about 36 miles of range in the same condictions and assuming the same energy economy. That's still 70% more range for the Leaf. And don't forget that this leaves you with a sizable reserve of about 3.3 kWh for side trips, and uforeseen circumstances. If you drive slowly, this reserve will give you about 15 miles of range, possibly a bit more if you really pushed it.

I'm very confident that the Leaf can get about 85 miles on a full charge if driven all the way to turtle mode, and I have done this many times. This assumes conservative urban driving, no more than 60-62 mph on the freeway, and ideal conditions with no rain. On an 80% charge, you will get about 68 miles on a charge.

The guessometer is problematic, yet many people will believe it to the letter, just like the OP. I suspect that he had at least 25% of battery charge left after his 57-mile commute and even though the GOM predicted only 13 miles, he could have traveled about 76 miles total. Both the Volt and the ActiveE have a better GOM design, it nags less and is more accurate. However, if you wanted to wring the maximum amount of energy from the battery without unnecessary anxiety, you could get Gary's meter or the upcoming LeafScan.

I would recommend pluggin in more frequently instead, even from a 120V outlet if you plan on staying more than couple of hours. It's really no different than what we do with a laptop or a cell phone. It's a change of habits when it comes to the automotive world, but the benefits are well worth it.

 

[SanDust]

I'm very confident that the Leaf can get about 85 miles on a full charge if driven all the way to turtle mode. This assumes conservative urban driving, no more than 60-62 mph on the freeway, and ideal conditions with no rain. On an 80% charge, you will get about 68 miles on a charge.

I'm talking about 80% freeway driving at 60-65 MPH. I haven't taken it to turtle but I've taken it past VLB warning and the range is in the high 60s. No rain. Mild temperatures. This is consistent with what actual people that I know who have the Leaf get as well. I'll also note that when I check on CarWings it says I'm at the "Gold" level so it's not as if I'm off the chart for getting low miles per kWh.

The only way I could get 80 miles of range would be to get caught in a huge jam on I-5 in stop and go traffic. Since I really don't need climate control that might actually be a piece of cake. Thankfully I haven't had that experience so I can't confirm it but it seems likely.

I rarely drive in Eco. Maybe that's the difference.

 

[surfingslovak]

I'm talking about 80% freeway driving at 60-65 MPH.

Do you reset the energy economy gauge? What does it typically display? At these speeds, I would expect 3.5 to 3.6 kWh per Tony's table. A bit less if you use A/C. This is about the same number EPA baked into their 73 miles range estimate. Any hills on your route?

I haven't taken it to turtle but I've taken it past VLB warning and the range is in the high 60s.

Yes, this would be consistent with a low 70s total range, which is about the same EPA measured at 3.5 miles/kWh.

I'll also note that when I check on CarWings it says I'm at the "Gold" level so it's not as if I'm off the chart for getting low miles per kWh.

Did you get the firmware upgrade this year? If not, CarWings will inflate your energy economy, and the number of new Leafs that report correct numbers is growing. I turned into a "Platinum" driver because of this effect. My energy economy is about 4.3 to 4.5 per the gauge on the dash, but CarWings consistenly increses this number, and I'm between 5.1 and 5.4 in the online rankings.

The only way I could get 80 miles of range would be to get caught in a huge jam on I-5 in stop and go traffic.

I have driven over 100 miles on a charge, the majority of which was on the freeway going 50 mph. Now, this is not for everyone, and you have to watch your rear, but it's possible. If the Leaf had the aerodynamics of the EV1, we could be going more reasonable 60 mph, and still get 100 miles on a charge on the freeway (with no A/C or auxiliaries).

I rarely drive in Eco. Maybe that's the difference.

Indeed, it does matter quite a bit, although perhaps less important on the freeway. The ActiveE that I'm driving the majority of the time now, has an Eco mode as well, and the difference in energy economy between the two modes is even more pronounced than on the Leaf. Please see this blog post by Pamela Thwaite if this isterest you: http://electragirl.com/the-graph/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[davewill]

I know you enjoy being the naysayer on here, but to suggest a 55 mile range for the LEAF is simply being disingenuous.

Hopefully you understand that a realist in a land of "Enthusiasts" would be a "Naysayer", relatively speaking. ...

Nice try. I'm just glad you didn't deny you enjoy it. But it's pretty obvious you shade your responses distinctly negative. From your responses above, you get approx 70 miles on a charge.

 

[GRA]

I know you enjoy being the naysayer on here, but to suggest a 55 mile range for the LEAF is simply being disingenuous.

Hopefully you understand that a realist in a land of "Enthusiasts" would be a "Naysayer", relatively speaking. ...

Nice try. I'm just glad you didn't deny you enjoy it. But it's pretty obvious you shade your responses distinctly negative. From your responses above, you get approx 70 miles on a charge.

Clearly I too qualify as a naysayer: if I owned a BEV I wouldn't plan any trip (except in extremis) that requires me to go past LBW, any more than I would plan a trip in my ICE that requires me to use the 1.4 gallon reserve left when the 'Low Fuel" light comes on. I consider this no more than prudence; that reserve exists to deal with unexpected conditions (rain, winds, detours, back-ups, non-working EVSEs etc.) and emergencies. Which isn't to say that I haven't pushed the limits in my ICE on occasion just to see what it could do - I cut it a little too fine going up to Ashland for the Shakespeare Festival one year, when we ran out of gas in the driveway of the gas station there and had to push the car to the pump.

I would undoubtedly make similar tests of a BEV (although Tony has eliminated much of the need for the Leaf), but I sure wouldn't plan to do that as a matter of routine. Unlike an ICE, using that reserve regularly will significantly shorten battery life. I care about battery longevity because I buy cars rather than lease them, and keep them until they die. I wouldn't want to be fully cycling a battery every time I use it. If I were leasing with no intention of keeping the car beyond the lease, I might not care.

 

[Leon]

82 mph cruise for 12 miles? I haven't crossed 75 mph yet.
Just curious as to what your miles/kWh efficiency would be for this leg of 82 mph for 12 miles.
Jay

2.3-2.8 m/kWh wind, temp, grade variable. I've done that drive with the cruise set on 92 (temp was 15 F w/ heat blasting) and the draw gets into the 2 miles per range. I've also run up Berthoud Pass from Winter Park, CO and drained half the battery in 10 miles. That's about 1 mile/kWh. Passed a Porsche Carrera S on the way

Point. This car will probably work better than you imagine, for you. You won't use it like some worst case imaginary Me. It's not a Tesla S, it's not an airplane. It won't haul rocks like a diesel truck. It IS a sporty commuter that is FUN to drive and you will have moments. So what? Draft a big rig. Grab a little juice. Drive slow if you must (this works, beats walking). Living with an EV is about new experiences.

I'm not trying to save the planet, this car is just cool. Learn it's quirks and ignore the people who are trying to make excuses for not buying in. Be generous with your outlet. Electricity is cheap. Electricity is domestic. My Cooper S is dusty....