need un biased opinion

[SanDust]

But then what do you do about the gas in the tank, which begins "spoiling" after 30-45 days?
...
So to Volt owners: if you can manage the constraint of the electric range, how do you manage the "aging" gasoline in your tank?

Actually the gas will be fine for a year. I also think the car has a sensor that tells you when you'd have to burn it. But you'd never have to worry about that. 51 miles a day would mean 10 gas miles a day or about a gallon a week or 50 gallons a year or six fill ups a year. Your gas would never go stale, so to speak.

I may be in one of the white Leafs you pass but probably not. I'm going East in the mornings and West in the afternoons. Sounds like you're going the other way. Ordinarily I don't feel constrained about driving more slowly than I used to. I find the car more relaxing. Other than a few times I've never worried about my speed.

 

[LeafPowerIsIxE]

But then what do you do about the gas in the tank, which begins "spoiling" after 30-45 days?
...
So to Volt owners: if you can manage the constraint of the electric range, how do you manage the "aging" gasoline in your tank?

Actually the gas will be fine for a year. I also think the car has a sensor that tells you when you'd have to burn it. But you'd never have to worry about that. 51 miles a day would mean 10 gas miles a day or about a gallon a week or 50 gallons a year or six fill ups a year. Your gas would never go stale, so to speak.

I may be in one of the white Leafs you pass but probably not. I'm going East in the mornings and West in the afternoons. Sounds like you're going the other way. Ordinarily I don't feel constrained about driving more slowly than I used to. I find the car more relaxing. Other than a few times I've never worried about my speed.

I really tried the Zen approach to freeway driving when I first got the Leaf. It worked - I arrived a lot more relaxed, and my Leaf GOM was happy for it. My fellow commuters were not so understanding. Between that carpool stretch on the I-15 south in the morning, and the parade of Type-A's going west in the early morning on the US56, anyone doing 60mph or less would be literally pushed off the highway. Some can ignore it - my ADHD does not allow me to maintain that Zen-Like focus when these shiny objects are a churning around me. So much to my chagrin, I slowly merged back in with the other Type-A's, acting the fool.

 

[tcherniaev]

My commute is 29 miles each way. I work downtown, so I have a lot of options for lunch that do not require driving, so most of the time I leave my Leaf parked all day. I have access to L1 at work. Traffic is bad at times, but I have access to the carpool lane, so it's not unusual to drive 70+ mph for at least large part of my commute.

Most days I can make it to the office and back without needing to charge at the office. I can even drive a couple of miles during lunch, and still make it. When it gets cold I like to blast the heat like I do in ICE cars, so range drops. I would say if the temperature is below freezing I may need to use L1 at work, especially if I drive to lunch (and as it gets colder, I am more likely to drive to lunch instead of walking). Again, most of the time a 4-hour charge on L1 before or after lunch is all I need. This past winter I had a day or two when it was cold and I drove a lot during lunch. Those two days I had to use L1 before and after lunch. In a real pinch I could use public L2 charger (7 minute walk from my office), but have not had to use it yet.

You will learn what your car can and can't do very quickly. If your commute is longer than a few miles you need to have at least an option to do an L1 charge. You may not use it every day (I don't), but it will be a real life-saver when you need it. L1 is very slow, but even on a coldest day this past winter after charging at the office for 9 hours I was back to an almost full battery. And today, with day-time temps around 70 F, I was back to 100% by 1 pm, and that is after I drove 70+ mph almost all the way (the only reason why I charged it at work today is because I needed to make a stop on the way home).

 

[cwerdna]

That was last March. Today I drive a 2012 Audi A6, having shelled out another $70K for a car that gets me to and from work.

While I agree with most things you say about Leaf range affected by hills, freeway and climate, you don't need to shell out $70k for a gas guzzler to get you to and from work. Sounds like you just have different preferences and don't care about the gas savings.

...

BTW - you think the A6 is a "guzzler"? I get on average 23-26mpg. What are you getting in your ICE?

Sorry to hear the Leaf didn't work for your commute. That's the type of concern I have which is why I don't have one yet. I live very far from everything and it was ~24 miles one way to the last workplace I had here in the Bay Area If I lived somewhere more central or there was workplace charging, then the Leaf's range shouldn't be a problem for wherever my future work might be (assuming it's still in the Bay Area). Once I start working again and am comfortable there, if it's in range, then I'm getting a Leaf.

My only car right now is my 06 Prius (bought new in January 06) and I like it. 23-26 mpg is pretty horrific by Prius standards as my lifetime avg is ~45-46 mpg. I used have an 04 350Z and when I had a mostly highway commute, IIRC, it'd do ~21-23 mpg on premium. I didn't like paying for gas on it compared to my Prius.

Sorry to hear you didn't like the Prius v. I don't like where the instruments are on it. If my Prius were totaled or stolen in the near future, it'd be replaced w/a 3rd gen Prius or a '12 HyCam. I will readily admit the Prius (and v) aren't cars to buy if one's looking for handling, rapid acceleration or luxury.

 

[garygid]

Consider:
1. Volt costs more
2. Driving Volt is a "no-brainer
3. Driving the LEAF might require "thinking"
4. Quiet driving of the LEAF is great
5. Do you like supporting oil companies
6. fueling from a home Solar PV system
7. using gasoline "fouls" the air
8. Can you fit into the car comfortably
9. what range do you need
10. do you want to be part of the all-electric revolution
11. what example do you want to set for your kids
12. what legacy to leave for your great-grandchildren
13. many really "love" driving their LEAF

(Ok, not TOTALLY unbiased.)

 

[DaveEV]

So much to my chagrin, I slowly merged back in with the other Type-A's, acting the fool.

I'm a bit confused by your situation. Not sure why you expected 100 miles range at 65+ mph - the EPA rating which is supposed to reflect "real life" is 73 miles to empty which most find matches reality driving fairly "normally". The 100 mile range is on the LA4 cycle which is very easy on the car. Even Nissan themselves have long said that averaging 55 mph on a hot day only gets you 70 miles of range.

Personally, I find that if you stick with 65 mph on the freeways and use Eco mode to help minimize any HVAC power draw, 65 miles/charge is trivial - so knowing you have to drive 51 miles - if you have some side trips which add to the total miles you know you may have to adjust your behavior to compensate.

For your driving style and commute a Tesla Model S sounds like a great fit. $70k for one (same as your A6 after tax credit) can get you the 85 kWh battery which is good for "300 miles". Just keep in mind that 300 miles in the 85 kWh Model S is at a constant 55 mph w/no HVAC - similar to the LEAF's "100 mile" range. So if you find your LEAF only dependable for 60 miles you would likely only find the Model S good for 180 miles operated similarly (Probably even less than that since the Model S will very likely come with a "range mode" setting which must be used to get "300 mile" range - standard mode will knock another 20% off the range if we use the Roadster as an example which gets 190 "ideal miles" in standard mode and 240 "ideal miles" in range mode)

Out of curiosity - how did you option your A6 up to $70k? Must be the V6 quattro model with nearly all options checked?

 

[Rmasu]

Thank you all for great and thoughtful replies. I really wanted unbiased opinions and I got them. Actually I wanted to post the same question on a volt forum but they were not as active and had much lower numbers than here.
I live in Hawaii and posted earlier if I should even get a leaf in the first place. Best response I had on this post was taking side trips, YES ,many times during lunch I need to take a trip to the store or meeting that could possibly add 10-15 miles and possibly take me to a range anexity levels. My commute is normally heavy traffice for most of it really slow 10-15 mph
My original thought of getting an ev was this.
Gas in Hawaii Honolulu is now 4.60 a gallon regular, my main car the tundra ( gt3 Porsche is a garage queen)
I get about 15 miles a gallon so I end up filling the tank about 5 times a month thats almost 500 a month. So I figured a car payment of 600 a month is almost like a free car. Of course insurance and other cost play into it, but it's close enough in my book to almost be getting the use of a free car every month. In addition we have a full PV system that puts out all our household needs. If needed I would add more in an instant, as I really am a believer in solar power especially in Hawaii. I assume in 7 years there will be a 200 miles ev that charges in 8 hours. I will be the first in
Line for that one.
I hate to say it but I think the volt might fit my driving habits better. My tundra is paid for and our family will use it on weekends etc. But my daily 57 miles commite will be mostly electric that feels good. Sure I could live with the leaf, but I really don't want the anexity of not able to suddenly drive more than the limits of the leaf. Emotionally that kills me, I really like the thought of an all ev, the volt seems like a giant hybrid. I guess I get the volt unless someone can convince me otherwise.
Thanks again for the replies

 

[Rmasu]

Sorry forgot to add, tesla s always intrigued me, but no dealer or service in Hawaii seems like a bad endeavor, and like a previous response i sometime pick up both kids from school on the way home, not a lot of times
but where do you suff 2 kids in a tesla?
Thanks again,
Maybe lease the volt for 3 years i think they have a deal of no down and 350 a month.

 

[LeafPowerIsIxE]

So much to my chagrin, I slowly merged back in with the other Type-A's, acting the fool.

I'm a bit confused by your situation. Not sure why you expected 100 miles range at 65+ mph - the EPA rating which is supposed to reflect "real life" is 73 miles to empty which most find matches reality driving fairly "normally". The 100 mile range is on the LA4 cycle which is very easy on the car. Even Nissan themselves have long said that averaging 55 mph on a hot day only gets you 70 miles of range.

Personally, I find that if you stick with 65 mph on the freeways and use Eco mode to help minimize any HVAC power draw, 65 miles/charge is trivial - so knowing you have to drive 51 miles - if you have some side trips which add to the total miles you know you may have to adjust your behavior to compensate.

For your driving style and commute a Tesla Model S sounds like a great fit. $70k for one (same as your A6 after tax credit) can get you the 85 kWh battery which is good for "300 miles". Just keep in mind that 300 miles in the 85 kWh Model S is at a constant 55 mph w/no HVAC - similar to the LEAF's "100 mile" range. So if you find your LEAF only dependable for 60 miles you would likely only find the Model S good for 180 miles operated similarly (Probably even less than that since the Model S will very likely come with a "range mode" setting which must be used to get "300 mile" range - standard mode will knock another 20% off the range if we use the Roadster as an example which gets 190 "ideal miles" in standard mode and 240 "ideal miles" in range mode)

Out of curiosity - how did you option your A6 up to $70k? Must be the V6 quattro model with nearly all options checked?

I expected 100 miles because that is what Nissan said when they initially hyped the vehicle. You have to remember back to when we "bought" into the concept of the Leaf (~April/May-2010) - there was only Nissan advertising the "100-mile Range" of the projected vehicle. That easily covered my needs, even though I knew that projection would be under ideal "test" conditions. I never expected 60 miles to be a stretch - and it is. When you say adjust your behavior, I completely understand what that means - having been a member of this forum since I bought the car. "Don't use the A/C, open your windows. Forget the heater, plug in a space heater. Drive (much) slower. Find a way to charge at work. Leave home earlier. Ride with your co-workers for lunch. Take side streets and avoid freeways." etc-etc-etc. All viable options if you will do anything to justify the use of the Leaf. It mystifies me at some of the concessions folk make on this blog. But to everyone's credit and creativity, we have found ways to better the "fit".

We are all early adopters, and I cannot emphasize enough that I love the car, and enjoy driving it. It just failed the intended use as a to/from work car. And our infrastructure expansion has failed miserably to live up to its early hype. I have yet to plug my Leaf into a public charger after more than a year of use - there is no good option anywhere I take the vehicle. And the ones I could use have cars plugged into them 24/7 (anywhere around QComm), so there is no way to rely on availability.

I installed the separate SDGE meter and supplement off my 40 panel, post fire PV-solar system. So I am bought in.

My office team negotiated to have a power station installed, which would have been really cool. Until I got a call from corporate indicating "maybe it's not such a good idea" for the Division SVP to have his own personal charger installed at the office. That project went DOA.

I bought my Leaf from my hometown Nissan dealer - not smart considering what we know now about the "Buy here-Charge here" attitude of many dealers.

The Tesla-S will resolve these issues with the upgraded 300-mile range model, and I am sure I will own one someday. They actually connected with me early on to come work for them. My electric car experience has met expectations for fun, technology, and head-turning. It is George Jetson.

As far as my A6, it is a real joy to drive. My 3.0 Quattro Prestige stickered at $63.5 (no Bang & O) .... toss in the service package, and then the state of California steps in and you're driving out at >$69K. But this car is better than any 5-series on the road in near every way.

We are all part of a unique club - all "beta-testers". I look forward to the day we commoditize the whole electric car revolution.

 

[downeykp]

rmasu, Hawaii is a whole different matter. On Oahu, you will never have to worry about the problems with the heater being inefficient. The a/c on the Leaf works very efficiently. 80 miles on a 100% charge should not be a problem. There are many who charge to 100% regularly who have not had issues with their batteries. It sounds like you are going to lease so the degradation of the battery should not be a problem.
Your PV system will make owning a Leaf an ono way to go. PM a few of the Leaf owners on the HI owners forum. They could give you an idea of what range you could expect. The weather in HI is optimal for a Leaf. Good luck.

 

[Leon]

My commute is 53 miles RT and it's all highway. I get on the expressway, set the cruise on 82 for the first 12 miles and then ease back to 65 or 70 and flow in... Simple solution.. Phil's EVupgrade, a dryer plug installed by an electrician ($150 dollar) at work and an extension cord with the two ends changed . Heat? crank it. AC? please. A few errands? Really?.. You all make it sound so hard. 16,000 miles and I've only turtled it once, deliberately; and it was within half a mile of my prediction while the car was plugged in. I love this car. I'm ready for Gen2. At this point, I would recommend getting a 13 vs a 12. But hey, I paid extra and shipped mine halfway across the US... and it's an 11.

 

[garygid]

Consider helping the EV revolution now, instead of waiting.

 

[mkjayakumar]

82 mph cruise for 12 miles? I haven't crossed 75 mph yet.

Just curious as to what your miles/kWh efficiency would be for this leg of 82 mph for 12 miles.

Jay

 

[occ]

In Hawaii? No problem getting 80 miles w/ 100% charge. That gives you plenty for any side trips.

We're going to Oahu this summer, and I was looking for a LEAF for a rental while there. Enterprise has them. Try it for a couple of days. If you're in Oahu, there's a couple of Chargepoints and Blink network charger around. Can't say I want to do this yet, since the chargers are on the south end of the island, while I prob want to explore the north end too. I think all they need is two QCs on Oahu and the LEAF would be ideal for the island.

Good for you about the solar. A pure EV is just an extension of home solar energy. I'd go for the LEAF if I were you, but I do understand your range issue.

 

[billvon]

I drive 51 miles of 65+ MPH driving to get to my office in Sorrento Valley.

Where do you live? Temecula?

 

[jkirkebo]

I can make work and back, if I baby it like I am driving on probation. Any given day of the week you'll see a couple Leafs dragging their feet across the US-56 at 60mph. Because the car can't make it to/from North County into the Triangle easily. And that assumes you only go to/from. Mix a lunch run, dental, or a run to Vons, and you're out of business.

So to the blue one, the two whites, the black, and the two reds I pass each evening in my white Quattro, I know why you're driving 60mph. Problem is - no one else does.

Funny, I commute 60 miles each way (120 miles round trip) and I drive faster in my Leaf than I did in the VW TDI I used before. I have no problem going 60 miles @ mostly 62mph (the speed limit here) so I do (charge at work before the return trip).

In my VW TDI I usually went 50-55mph to save fuel as it did use quite a bit more (~20%) at 62mph compared to 50mph. But electricity is cheap and cleaner so in the Leaf I go the speed limit.

Today I arrived home with 28% battery to spare after going the 60 miles, of which 70% have a 62mph speed limit and the rest is on average 50mph.

I winter I do have to go a little slower because of the heater, about the same as I used to do in the TDI which adds 7-8 minutes to my commute. Not in any way a big deal for me.

 

[IBELEAF]

we have speed limit of 60 on 405, but on light days no one really drives at this limit, most people at 65+. It might be ok for someone, but I am not comfortable with being the slowest car on the freeway, so I usually just go with the traffic flow. Not only that, our freeway is hilly, so it's just impacts your range even further. During winter times with 3 people in the car, heater on and some freeway I was getting ~45 range. I didn't push it all the way, so it's just a rough estimate based on the bar usage. Whenever someone asks me about the range, I just tell them 50 miles, because that's comfortable range for me.

 

[jkirkebo]

My office team negotiated to have a power station installed, which would have been really cool. Until I got a call from corporate indicating "maybe it's not such a good idea" for the Division SVP to have his own personal charger installed at the office. That project went DOA.

You don't need L2 at work, L1 should work fine. Maybe they would consider putting in 3-4 120V plugs for anyone to use ? Cheap, and it's not for your personal use exclusively.

 

[jkirkebo]

BTW - you think the A6 is a "guzzler"? I get on average 23-26mpg. What are you getting in your ICE?

23-26mpg would be a serious "guzzler" over here. My VW TDI usually gets around 45mpg, while the rating of the average new car is 219g CO2/mile which translates to around 41mpg.

 

[LeafPowerIsIxE]

I drive 51 miles of 65+ MPH driving to get to my office in Sorrento Valley.

Where do you live? Temecula?

Lake Hodges area. About 25.5 each way, entering at the Del Lago ramp, exiting at the Mira Mesa construction debacle.