Need help on installing charging station.

[wwhitney]

Personally I think there is still room for interpretation in the NEC. If an inspector considers an EVSE to be an appliance (not a stretch in my mind), it's still required by 422.31(B) to have a local disconnect.

If you check the NEC definition of Appliance, it becomes clear that an EVSE is not an Appliance. That's why it has its own code section (625) rather than being rolled into the chapter on Appliances (422). From the 2011 NEC:

The first words in the definition of "Appliance" are "Utilization Equipment", which tells us an Appliance is a type of Utilization Equipment. The definition of "Utilization Equipment" is "Equipment that utilizes electric energy for electronic, electromechanical, chemical, heating, lighting, or similar purposes". Since an EVSE is a glorified switch, it is not Utilization Equipment.

Installing a disconnect may be a great idea for the reasons already provided, I agree. But it happens not to be required by the NEC.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[LeftieBiker]

As I slowly prepare to actually install my EVSE, I have another question: what size plastic (probably PVC, alas) conduit do I need for the oval (not round) profile 10-3 indoor cable I'll be using? I want it to slide through easily, but I want as small a diameter as will allow this. I'll be running it along the top of an inside garage wall, with the conduit there only to meet code and protect it from physical damage. I probably won't use nasty solvent weld, just a little epoxy to lock each fitting in place.

Yes, I know I could have used 10-2. I got a deal on the 10-3 and will be installing a 30 amp dryer outlet to mate with the 50 amp (minus neutral prong) plug I installed on the EVSE.

 

[ElectricEddy]

As I slowly prepare to actually install my EVSE, I have another question: what size plastic (probably PVC, alas) conduit do I need for the oval (not round) profile 10-3 indoor cable I'll be using? I want it to slide through easily, but I want as small a diameter as will allow this. I'll be running it along the top of an inside garage wall, with the conduit there only to meet code and protect it from physical damage. I probably won't use nasty solvent weld, just a little epoxy to lock each fitting in place.

Yes, I know I could have used 10-2. I got a deal on the 10-3 and will be installing a 30 amp dryer outlet to mate with the 50 amp (minus neutral prong) plug I installed on the EVSE.

13 Leaf charger L2 6600w/240v=27.5A. #10 copper will happily conduct 30A all day long however your 30A breaker will not like life and trip do to overheating (its only rated at 80% continuous load). So to make a long story short, run R90#8 x-link in a minumum 3/4" (4 is the max) pvc conduit glue fittings with proper pvc schedule 40 cement (or use teck90 without the conduit, it's easier) protected by a 2 40A breaker. And no... a 30 amp dryer outlet(30A/125/250v) does not "mate" with any 50A /250v cord cap. The prongs won't fit. If you feel the need to plug it in terminate with a 50A 250V receptacle in a box to "mate" with the 50A/250v male cord cap that you installed on your EVSE. Better yet just hard wire it unless you want your EVSE to be portable. The above method will pass inspection every time

 

[LeftieBiker]

The EVSE is 20 amp, I'm using a 'two-fuse (25A) & double cutoff switch' for power (fusebox) and I do want it portable. A 50 amp range/RV plug with the Neutral prong omitted will work with both 30 amp dryer and 50 amp range/RV outlets. Now, what's the smallest plastic conduit that will carry oval 10-3 indoor cable without it being hard to thread it?

 

[DaveEV]

As I slowly prepare to actually install my EVSE, I have another question: what size plastic (probably PVC, alas) conduit do I need for the oval (not round) profile 10-3 indoor cable I'll be using?

If that's romex wire you've bought - you can't install it in conduit as far as I'm aware. You have to use single-stranded wire.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You actually can install romex in conduit. It isn't usually done, but if I'm not supposed to expose it for fear (according to code) it will be damaged, I have to choose between climbing around in a garage "attic" with no floor, and using conduit.

334.30 Securing and Supporting
Nonmetallic-sheathed cable shall be supported and secured by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings designed and installed so as not to damage the cable, at intervals not exceeding 1.4 m (4 1/ 2 ft) and within 300 mm (12 in.) of every outlet box, junction box, cabinet, or fitting. Flat cables shall not be stapled on edge.
Sections of cable protected from physical damage by raceway shall not be required to be secured within the raceway.

 

[DaveEV]

OK, conduit is often used in wet locations (outdoors or underground) and you can't run romex in those locations even if in conduit. I guess if you're running it in your attic, you may be OK, though unconventional.

As far as what size PVC you could run 10-3 or 10-2, looking at the fill charts you could go as small as 1/2".

As far as how easy it is to pull 10-3 in PVC - it depends on how long of a run you have.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I've done some more research, and as long as it's more than 4' above the floor (it will be more like 8') I don't believe I need conduit at all. If anyone else needs the info, 1/2" plastic conduit may work, but 3/4" is probably best for 10-3 flat romex-type cable, especially if bends are involved. I may actually get this thing installed this month. Or at least this year...

 

[CharlesinGA]

Chapter 9 of the NEC has the restrictions and fill requirement for conduit. With cables and cords, it says if they are round or mostly so you would calculate the area based off the greatest diameter, with oval or "flat" such as two wire w/grd NM cable, you use the MAJOR diameter and calculate the area as if it were ROUND. Chapter 9 also says that a cable or cord is considered a SINGLE CONDUCTOR for purposes of determining the percentage fill limits. 53% for single conductor, 31% for two, and 40% for more than two. My handy dandy $3 flea market Mitutoyo calipers tell me that my Southwire™ Romex™ NM 10/3 w/grd in the orange jacket is give or take about .40" diameter and Google tells me this is .13 sq/in (I'm too lazy to calculate it myself). For rigid PVC sch 40 conduit the 53% max fill for ½ is .151 and for ¾ it is .269, so either conduit will work. I know from experience that shoving that wire thru a ¾ PVC conduit is difficult enough, I cannot imagine doing this with ½. In any case, use lots of pull lube. I always recommend not putting NM in conduit for any distance due to the difficulty of pulling/pushing it thru. Please use the proper solvent. They actually make a gray solvent for PVC conduit.

If that's romex wire you've bought - you can't install it in conduit as far as I'm aware. You have to use single-stranded wire.

Common assumption but totally incorrect.

1/2" plastic conduit may work, but 3/4 is probably best for 10-3 flat romex-type cable, especially if bends are involved.

10/3 w/grd NM is virtually round. if you are using something that is flat, then it is probably UF and not NM (aka Romex™) and I doubt that you could cram that in ½ and possibly not in ¾ either.

Charles

10/3 w/grd UF (Underground Feeder)

10/3 w/grd NM or Romex™

I actually did find pics of some flat NM 10/3 but I have never seen it in real life, and if you calculate the area of it as a circle, it most certainly won't work in ½ and probably not in ¾ either.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The 10-3 I have is not the flat ribbon type, but is oval (not round) in profile, with a white cover. IIRC. It's indoor-rated. I also have some 10-3 UF that I'm saving for a conduit cable replacement, and that is more flat.

 

[ElectricEddy]

Just use the 3/4" and make your life easy. Cost difference is about $1.50 per 10' stick. You also could use wiremould in a plastic format (for cosmetics) but be prepared to pay 4x the $. You are after all using conduit for mechanical protection, not building a raceway system.