My Southern California battery experence

[GlennD]

Every couple of months I go to the TRW swap meet. The trip from my house is about 67 miles. As usual I had no problems.

I went to the swap meet on cruze control at 57 indicated about 55 miles actual. On the way back I ran 62 indicated. I arrived home with 2 bars and the GOM said 17 miles remaining.

So far the car totally meets my demands.

On a side note many vendors were missing and most blamed it on Carmageddon II.

 

[planet4ever]

I also called NMAC to see if I could just early-term the lease and walk away from it - since the car is licensed in California things are more difficult - they would have to put the car up on auction and then I would be financially liable for the difference between what it sold for on auction and what my buyout is today.

Don't forget about the $5000 cash rebate you presumably got from the state. If you get rid of it now you'll have to cough up about half of that to pay them back.

Ray

 

[GlennD]

My state rebate was $2500, not $5000

 

[TonyWilliams]

I am starting to hear people describe their LEAF as
around 3 months old and already at 91% capacity.

I am beginning to wonder if the new LEAFs are
actually showing 99% to 100% when delivered.

Mine was 100% through August; 4/1012 manufacture date, 5/27/2012 in service with 5 miles on the odometer. Presumably never charged to 100% since manufacture to my acquisition.

Sept 15, 2012 - 250 Gid / 89%. Drive 100% charge to turtle at 91% expected range (76.6 miles of 84 expected for 281 Gid)

Car was rarely exposed to over 90F. Above test at 78-80F.

 

[planet4ever]

My state rebate was $2500, not $5000

mathewbeall said "16 months" so I assume he got the car in June 2011. That would put him right at the changeover from $5000 to $2500, so it could be either.

Ray

 

[Devin]

I thought I'd add my experience here, for what it's worth.

I took delivery on 6/16/2011. I passed 16,000 miles yesterday. I usually charge to 80%, at night. I have DC quick-charged about 10 times.

The highest I have seen the temperature bars on my Leaf is at TB7, usually after quick-charging though I have seen it no more than 10 times on hot days using regular charging/re-charging. During the summer months the car usually stays at TB6 and during the winter months it will usually be at TB5 though will sometimes cross to TB6. I have never had a turtle or VLBW event, only dipped to LBW about 15 times over the life of the car.

I park the car in my poorly ventilated southeast-facing garage in Van Nuys 91406. When parked at work it is usually outside in the sun. Most of the time work has been Universal City 91608 or Hollywood 90028. When at Hollywood 90028 (June-December 2011) I used L1 charging during the day to 80% to supplement my night charging.

My car still shows all 12 bars of capacity. On some timed charges to 80% it will end at 9/12 bars (in the past two months), but most of the time it ends at the full 10/12 bars. I have not done a non-timer charge to 100% overnight (for potential cell balancing) since May 2012. I have no real way to tell if the car has lost capacity as I don't have a Gid-Meter, but my feeling is that if I have lost range it is minimal and somewhere between 2 and 5 miles.

 

[surfingslovak]

My car still shows all 12 bars of capacity. On some timed charges to 80% it will end at 9/12 bars (in the past two months), but most of the time it ends at the full 10/12 bars. I have not done a non-timer charge to 100% overnight (for potential cell balancing) since May 2012. I have no real way to tell if the car has lost capacity as I don't have a Gid-Meter, but my feeling is that if I have lost range it is minimal and somewhere between 2 and 5 miles.

You could run the car to turtle and measure the wall energy needed to charge it back up to full. This seems to provide very useful feedback about the total capacity of the battery. Based on the results obtained by a few of us previously, we would expect to see a figure between 22 and 23 kWh at 240V from the wall for your battery.

 

[Devin]

My car still shows all 12 bars of capacity. On some timed charges to 80% it will end at 9/12 bars (in the past two months), but most of the time it ends at the full 10/12 bars. I have not done a non-timer charge to 100% overnight (for potential cell balancing) since May 2012. I have no real way to tell if the car has lost capacity as I don't have a Gid-Meter, but my feeling is that if I have lost range it is minimal and somewhere between 2 and 5 miles.

You could run the car to turtle and measure the wall energy needed to charge it back up to full. This seems to provide very useful feedback about the total capacity of the battery. Based on the results obtained by a few of us previously, we would expect to see a figure between 22 and 23 kWh at 240V from the wall for your battery.

That's a good idea. I may give this a shot once it cools off again. Is it good enough to use the LADWP meter to measure this? I have a separate digital meter for the car. Or should I use L1 with Kill-a-watt to measure to be more exact?

 

[RegGuheert]

That's a good idea. I may give this a shot once it cools off again. Is it good enough to use the LADWP meter to measure this? I have a separate digital meter for the car. Or should I use L1 with Kill-a-watt to measure to be more exact?

I would go with the LADPW meter so that you have energy at L2, which is what most people here report. Only a few of us have reported L1 numbers and there is more question about the accuracy of the Kill-a-Watt. Post your results in the Collecting data: Off-the-wall power for turtle to 100% charge thread in the Range, Efficiency, Carwings area.

 

[Devin]

That's a good idea. I may give this a shot once it cools off again. Is it good enough to use the LADWP meter to measure this? I have a separate digital meter for the car. Or should I use L1 with Kill-a-watt to measure to be more exact?

I would go with the LADPW meter so that you have energy at L2, which is what most people here report. Only a few of us have reported L1 numbers and there is more question about the accuracy of the Kill-a-Watt. Post your results in the Collecting data: Off-the-wall power for turtle to 100% charge thread in the Range, Efficiency, Carwings area.

I just posted over there and measured 22kWh from turtle to 100%.

 

[Valdemar]

First pic is taken on 5/8/2012, second is today 10/23/2012. The same 17 mile surface street commute on a 100% charge, similar conservative driving both times, 235ft negative elevation gain, ambient temperature is probably within 5-10F. On average charging from 2 bars to 80% and 100% with end of charge timer timer 5 and 2 days a week correspondingly (charge completes within 1hr of departure). Took delivery on 9/9/2011. Never took gid count. Is it right to assume 5% loss over last summer and 7688 miles?

 

[Stoaty]

First pic is taken on 5/8/2012, second is today 10/23/2012. The same 17 mile surface street commute on a 100% charge, similar conservative driving both times, 235ft negative elevation gain, ambient temperature is probably within 5-10F. Charging to 80% and 100% with end of charge timer timer 5 and 2 days a week correspondingly (charge completes within 1hr of departure). Took delivery on 9/9/2011. Never took gid count. Is it right to assume 5% loss over last summer and 7688 miles?

No, but based on your total miles driven, length of ownership and climate, you probably have about an 11% loss of capacity from new.

 

[Valdemar]

No, but based on your total miles driven, length of ownership and climate, you probably have about an 11% loss of capacity from new.

5% over the last hot 6 months from 11% total loss over 13 (with 7 relatively cool months) sounds about right to me.

 

[thankyouOB]

is there a phenomenon where when charging to 80% -- after 18 months of ownership 17.5k miles driven -- the 10th bar will have lesser range than before or the 10th bar doesnt fully charge?

I once typically got 6 miles per bar in my commute. I no longer do, but when i look closely at the usage, the loss is largely in the first bar, which now goes about 3-4 miles sted of 6-7. (it has some street usage going to the highway.)

 

[RegGuheert]

First pic is taken on 5/8/2012, second is today 10/23/2012.

It appears that your car wants an addition 40 minutes on L1 (~0.65 kWh) to recharge to 80% today than it did in May. Since I'm not exactly sure what assumptions that gauge makes, I won't try to estimate how much percentage capacity loss that might imply.

 

[Valdemar]

is there a phenomenon where when charging to 80% -- after 18 months of ownership 17.5k miles driven -- the 10th bar will have lesser range than before or the 10th bar doesnt fully charge?

I once typically got 6 miles per bar in my commute. I no longer do, but when i look closely at the usage, the loss is largely in the first bar, which now goes about 3-4 miles sted of 6-7. (it has some street usage going to the highway.)

This theory would support the 9 bar at 80% phenomenon discussed in other threads. I do notice that a secondary 80% charge (after a partial discharge) in the morning gives me a better range for the rest of the day.

 

[Valdemar]

First pic is taken on 5/8/2012, second is today 10/23/2012.

It appears that your car wants an addition 40 minutes on L1 (~0.65 kWh) to recharge to 80% today than it did in May. Since I'm not exactly sure what assumptions that gauge makes, I won't try to estimate how much percentage capacity loss that might imply.

I do see a consistent increase in L1 estimate on this commute, but not in L2.

 

[TomT]

I borrowed a Gid meter (remember, mine was stolen some time ago) and charged to 100 percent last night (at about 65 degrees and 5 battery temperature bars). This brought me to 218 Gids...

The range reduction I am actually seeing is pretty consistent with that level of capacity loss...

 

[mkjayakumar]

To OP: your GoM numbers for 10 bars is pretty impressive. What is your driving efficiency ?

 

[Valdemar]

To OP: your GoM numbers for 10 bars is pretty impressive. What is your driving efficiency ?

If this is addressed to me then I think I'm averaging about 4.5 overall. This particular reading is more of an exception to the rule as both times I drove in "paranoid" mode, timing red lights, carefully watching the more precise power meter on the NAV screen to be as low as possible but at the same time trying to make the drivers behind not to go mad. some of them did anyway