Musk : Tesla may open up Super Charger as a standard

[TomT]

I reiterate. I would never and will never take a trip where the success or failure of it depends on a single charging station (failure point)... Some people are more adventuresome and more power to them, but I prefer a degree of redundancy and reliability... Perhaps all my years of flying have something to do with that...

If you follow local facebook groups you will see members making frequent trips to all kinds of places.

 

[pkulak]

Perhaps that is why blink and averoviroement changed the chargers to 80% ???

There are still many people complaining over that through the use of comments on plugshare.

That was one person who changed dozens of descriptions and had no damn idea what they were talking about. Nothing has changed.

 

[kieranmullen]

? They only charge to 80%

Perhaps that is why blink and averoviroement changed the chargers to 80% ???

There are still many people complaining over that through the use of comments on plugshare.

That was one person who changed dozens of descriptions and had no damn idea what they were talking about. Nothing has changed.

 

[abasile]

? They only charge to 80%

Yep, there definitely are QCs out there that stop at a maximum of "80%" or "90%", which is actually lower than the LEAF's 80% or 90%. It is a real problem when you need more charge than that. The LEAF's battery is just too small, particularly with some degradation, to expect everyone to be satisfied leaving a fast charger with less than a full charge.

 

[garygid]

Generally, in using a QC, the LEAF decides the initial charging current,
when and how to reduce the charging current as charging proceeds,
and when to terminate charging.

Of course, the Quick Charger can also terminate the charging session,
but that is usually for unusual circunstances. However, the QC station
could enforce a 30 minute session length, a maximum energy delivery
per session, or try to interpret the "fullness/energy" values that are sent
by the car that are typically used to display a "progress" bar on the
QC machine.

It appears that the Tesla SuperCharger works in a similar manner,
with the high-current part of the charging only lasting for about 10 minutes,
more or less. The car does send its VIN to the SC.

 

[Zythryn]

...
However, the QC station
could enforce a 30 minute session length, a maximum energy delivery
per session, or try to interpret the "fullness/energy" values that are sent
by the car that are typically used to display a "progress" bar on the
QC machine.

It appears that the Tesla SuperCharger works in a similar manner,
with the high-current part of the charging only lasting for about 10 minutes,
more or less. The car does send its VIN to the SC.

From what I have heard here, and experienced with the SCs, they work quite differently.
Yes, the charge does taper off as you charge.
The charge defaults to 100%, this number can be changed on the cars charge screen.
I typically (~30 out of 32 times) don't do a full charge. I only charge it enough to get to the next SC +10-25%.

I do believe you are correct that the car sends its VIN to the SC (along with other data of course).

 

[evnow]

The next few years...

And "foreseeable future" means ?

Ok. Let us have that bet. Here is my guess

- Within 1 year after the first production Tesla "base" gen 3 vehicle is delivered, we'll have another manufacturer put out an EV with the range similar to the base gen 3.
- By similar range I mean > base gen 3 range - 10 miles or 200 EPA miles, whichever is smaller
- The EV will have a non-Tesla drivetrain (so, not like Rav 4EV)

If I'm right, you will donate $50 to a non-profit of my choice, otherwise I'll donate $50 to a non-profit of your choice.

 

[JeffN]

If you are only doing one or perhaps at most two QCs in a day, that may be true. More than that and the heat builds up fast without TMS.

What now? Leafs routinely charge at 2C (for parts of the charge). The chemistry that Nissan used has much less internal resistance than the cobalt batteries that Tesla uses. I don't think Tesla ever charges their cars at more than 1.5C, even with all the fancy liquid cooling.

Sure, but since a Leaf can actually charge _faster_ than a Model S, it seems a bit disingenuous to suggest that it's not suitable for fast charging. Lower (far lower, actually) internal resistance is one of the benefits of using NMC vs LCO.

Just for the record, Tesla uses NCA cells in the Model S. They used LCO cells in the Roadster which does not support fast DC charging but can charge using AC at 240V and 70A or about 17 kW.

 

[mbender]

? They only charge to 80%

Yep, there definitely are QCs out there that stop at a maximum of "80%" or "90%", which is actually lower than the LEAF's 80% or 90%. It is a real problem when you need more charge than that. The LEAF's battery is just too small, particularly with some degradation, to expect everyone to be satisfied leaving a fast charger with less than a full charge.

That's another problem we have to "put up with" regarding Chademos (in addition to 1 per installation, max charge rate, slow roll-out, etc.): I am never sure when the charging will stop... 80% 90% 100%, of the battery capacity, or 80% of that capacity?

 

[lorenfb]

The next few years...

And "foreseeable future" means ?

Ok. Let us have that bet. Here is my guess

- Within 1 year after the first production Tesla "base" gen 3 vehicle is delivered, we'll have another manufacturer put out an EV with the range similar to the base gen 3.
- By similar range I mean > base gen 3 range - 10 miles or 200 EPA miles, whichever is smaller
- The EV will have a non-Tesla drivetrain (so, not like Rav 4EV)

If I'm right, you will donate $50 to a non-profit of my choice, otherwise I'll donate $50 to a non-profit of your choice.

Right, all potential BEV OEMs are not going to produce in the near future a BEV
with a range > than 100 miles and are waiting because:

1. There's a collusion between the OEMs to not produce until after the Tesla "E" is viable.
2. All battery suppliers have a energy capacity limit on purchases to all BEV OEMs except Tesla.
They hope to be part of Tesla's Giga battery partnership along with Panasonic.
3. The US federal government has limited all BEV OEMs to a max battery capacity because of military
needs, except Tesla because it was the 1st to have a range greater than 200 miles. And additionally
because the military is in development with Tesla for BEV type of military tank.
4. There's presently a very short supply of key battery elements, e.g. lithium, cobalt, & graphite,
and just Panasonic owns its raw materials suppliers.
5. All BEV OEM's upper managements are heavily invested in Tesla stock.
6. All BEV OEM's engineering departments lack the key BEV knowledge & patents that Tesla has.
They're still trying to reverse-engineer the Tesla MS without much luck, e.g. the AC induction
motor and its drive electronics.
7. Panasonic entered into non-compete agreements with other battery suppliers to limit
their battery production to US OEMs so Panasonic & Tesla can be the first with high volume
$35K 200 mile BEV.
8. Solar City has committed to buy all of the battery suppliers capacity, except Panasonic,
for the next 3-4 years for its energy storage plans.
9. All OEM BEV strategic marketing managers, except Tesla's, fail to understand the 'real' BEV
market potential.
10. The oil companies are heavily invested in the all the US OEM auto manufacturers, except
Tesla, are all on their board of directors, and are fearful of a volume BEV with a range of
200 miles.

Or maybe this:

Given the present cost per kWh ($250-$300), most/all OEMs don't perceive a viable volume market
for a 200 mile range BEV based on a battery cost of $12K-$15K. The added cost, presently, for the
"volume" $35K target BEV market would be $6K-$7K, which wouldn't sell based on economics
versus hybrids, e.g. Prius, Honda, Volt, etc, and would price that 200 mile range BEV at $40K+.
That would then result in a typical 3yr lease cost over $500 per month.

 

[evnow]

Right, all potential BEV OEMs are not going to produce in the near future a BEV
with a range > than 100 miles and are waiting because:

Not sure whether you are joking or not - but, obviously if someone has a long range BEV before gen 3 I win the bet.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

If you look at the layout of the West Coast Electric Highway, it is very well thought out. By the end of this month I'll be able to go SE to Mt. Hood, Madras or Redmond. East to Hood River. South at least to the border (possibly down to Redding, CA). West to the coast and then all down the coast to Coos Bay or up to Astoria. Or North up to Vancouver BC and all sorts of places in WA. And pretty much all of that on a $20/month AV membership.

Would I do it? Hell no! haha. No way I wanna get stranded at a broken QC. But! They are _laid out_ just fine.

you might want to double check your facts there. you will have a very hard time making it from Tumwater to Burlington.

 

[pkulak]

you might want to double check your facts there. you will have a very hard time making it from Tumwater to Burlington.

pretty much all of that on a $20/month AV membership.

Not "all", "pretty much" all. You can't get through Salem or Portland either without using Blink or someone else.