Multi-LEAF Households

[alcalira]

Got our first LEAF in November, 2012. Surprise birthday present for my wife. I liked it so much, we decided to get another one! Took delivery 5/22/13 of a loaded 2013 SV (both packages, plus mats, bumper protection and splash guards.

Can't see any difference in build quality between the Japanese 2012 and the Smyrna-built 2013. Sold my 1999 BMW and we're now as electric as can be! Our Prius stands by for longer trips.

The leases offered by Nissan dealers make it a very easy decision to make. And there is no nicer driving experience than the LEAF, IMHO.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Got our first LEAF in November, 2012. Surprise birthday present for my wife. I liked it so much, we decided to get another one! Took delivery 5/22/13 of a loaded 2013 SV (both packages, plus mats, bumper protection and splash guards.

Can't see any difference in build quality between the Japanese 2012 and the Smyrna-built 2013. Sold my 1999 BMW and we're now as electric as can be! Our Prius stands by for longer trips.

The leases offered by Nissan dealers make it a very easy decision to make. And there is no nicer driving experience than the LEAF, IMHO.

Nice

 

[iluvmacs]

Better put a battery tender on that Prius! That's what we had to do when we got our Leaf and the Prius was just on standby like you said. We let it sit 6 weeks and it needed a jump start... twice... :lol:

 

[adric22]

Better put a battery tender on that Prius! That's what we had to do when we got our Leaf and the Prius was just on standby like you said. We let it sit 6 weeks and it needed a jump start... twice... :lol:

And you better go out and start that Prius up and let it run for a few minutes every now and then. You can actually "brick" a Prius by letting it sit unused for 6 to 12 months. The HV battery will totally discharge and then the I.C.E. can't start. A dealer may be able to charge up the HV battery with a special charger, but if it sits too long the battery will be ruined and never charge up again.

 

[DanCar]

... I liked it so much, we decided to get another one! ...

My wife wanted a hybrid, I insisted on an electric. Now she doesn't share well with the leaf. I sold my car and just bike to work, but plan on leasing a second leaf as soon as 2014 model is out.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... plan on leasing a second leaf as soon as 2014 model is out.

I doubt there will be many changes. It will be more like 2011 to 2012 model year... little things.

2015, however, I fully expect optional battery pack sizes and MAYBE even new chemistry batteries.

 

[CMYK4Life]

Very nice!

 

[DanCar]

... plan on leasing a second leaf as soon as 2014 model is out.

I doubt there will be many changes. It will be more like 2011 to 2012 model year... little things.

2015, however, I fully expect optional battery pack sizes and MAYBE even new chemistry batteries.

I saw a video in 2012 where Nissan exec said that 2013 won't have many changes, but that 2014 will have a significant styling change. This is in response to the European market where the leaf is considered ugly. Elsewhere there was a rumor that Nissan will offer a longer range battery option for 2014. Nissan recently said the Infiniti LE is going to be delayed and the LE has space for 10% batteries. This has me thinking that something like the LE is going to released as new generation of LEAF.
Infiniti LE delayed: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1084300_infinitis-luxury-leaf-electric-car-will-wait-for-inductive-charging" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
10% more battery space:
http://www.newcartestdrive.com/sneakpreview.cfm?ReviewID=423" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[stanley]

I have a 2011 Leaf with a lease that expires in 2014. If Nissan does not increase their batterys range to over 100 real miles, I will be passing on a Leaf or Infiniti as a replacement.

 

[iluvmacs]

Better put a battery tender on that Prius! That's what we had to do when we got our Leaf and the Prius was just on standby like you said. We let it sit 6 weeks and it needed a jump start... twice... :lol:

And you better go out and start that Prius up and let it run for a few minutes every now and then. You can actually "brick" a Prius by letting it sit unused for 6 to 12 months. The HV battery will totally discharge and then the I.C.E. can't start. A dealer may be able to charge up the HV battery with a special charger, but if it sits too long the battery will be ruined and never charge up again.

Oh, it never went nearly that long, and actually this year it's getting driven a lot for my wife's new job (driving to surrounding counties a few times per week, out of Leaf's range R/T, and no L2 stations anywhere). Even when the Prius would sit for weeks at a time powered off, I didn't notice any significant SoC loss on my CAN-View.

 

[DanCar]

I have a 2011 Leaf with a lease that expires in 2014. If Nissan does not increase their batterys range to over 100 real miles, I will be passing on a Leaf or Infiniti as a replacement.

What is your best alternative? I'm tempted to get a rav4 ev. Anyone know what the lease rates are?

 

[LEAFguy]

I'm tempted to get a rav4 ev. Anyone know what the lease rates are?

Toyota's web site currently says $499/mo with $1,000 down, or $539/mo with zero down. Both for 36 months.

For reference, RAV4EV epa range is 103 miles. 2013 LEAF range is 84 at 100 percent, 75 (listed on the monroney sticker) at 90 percent and 66 at 80 percent. A trickle charge at work, or an hours charge on L2 at lunch will give you the same range or more. My fully loaded SL 36 month lease is just over $300. The RAV4EV is a significant dollar step up for an additional 19 miles of range.

 

[fooljoe]

I'm tempted to get a rav4 ev. Anyone know what the lease rates are?

Toyota's web site currently says $499/mo with $1,000 down, or $539/mo with zero down. Both for 36 months.

For reference, RAV4EV epa range is 103 miles. 2013 LEAF range is 84 at 100 percent, 75 (listed on the monroney sticker) at 90 percent and 66 at 80 percent. A trickle charge at work, or an hours charge on L2 at lunch will give you the same range or more. My fully loaded SL 36 month lease is just over $300. The RAV4EV is a significant dollar step up for an additional 19 miles of range.

The Rav4-EV is a great deal, but DON'T lease! Toyota does not pass on the $7500 tax credit like Nissan and other automakers do, making their leases terrible deals. Purchasing one, however, can be a great deal. Toyota's offering $10k off and 0% APR for 60 months on the remaining 2012s. I bought mine last month for $27.5k net, after $50k msrp - $10k toyota - $10k fed/state - $2500 dealer negotiation. That translates to $697/mo, and I get $10k cash back in fed/state credits, so effectively it's $530/mo. That's less than the 0 down lease payment, and it includes sales tax! Oh and I get to keep the car after 5 yrs are up!

That's a pretty small step up in price from a top-of-the-line Leaf SL, and you get a battery that's over twice as big. Since it's a bigger and less aerodynamic car, that doesn't translate to twice the range, but it is a much more significant improvement than the epa numbers would suggest. That 103 mile estimate is for a "normal charge", which translates to 80% in Leaf language, so you should be comparing to the 66 number, i.e. a 56% improvement. Also, since the battery is a Tesla with their sophisticated TMS, it should lose capacity slower than the Leaf battery (at least I hope). I drove mine 130 miles the other day for a weekend trip to Palm Springs (something I'd never dream of doing in my Leaf) and still had 20 miles left on the GOM.

 

[LEAFguy]

That 103 mile estimate is for a "normal charge", which translates to 80% in Leaf language, so you should be comparing to the 66 number, i.e. a 56% improvement

Thanks for the feedback on the range. I wasn't aware that Toyota had two charge modes as the LEAF does. Additional research shows that the RAV4EV 103 is measured as the LEAF is though - at a 90 percent charge (found here Under "So What Is the Range?"). The 80 percent charge provides 92 epa miles, and the 100 percent charge provides 113 epa miles. So the RAV4EV offers about a 29 mile (or 35 percent) advantage at a 100 percent charge. I just wish the EPA would rate all vehicles at 100 percent charge so we wouldn't have to do all of this additional research. I've already started a discussion with them about it. It is confusing for consumers, and its confusing for the sales people that sell the car, leading them to provide misinformation. My problem with the EPA rating is that it is not possible to get a 90 percent charge (on either the RAV4EV or the LEAF) without manually stopping the charge at 90 percent.

Regarding your statement about buying the RAV4EV - you are also buying the battery. If you think the LEAF battery is expensive...

 

[fooljoe]

My problem with the EPA rating is that it is not possible to get a 90 percent charge (on either the RAV4EV or the LEAF) without manually stopping the charge at 90 percent.

Yeah, how would one ever even know that the car is at 90% charge? No instrumentation on board the Rav can tell you this - the bars stop at the "normal charge" or 80% value! Also, I'm very curious how these EPA numbers are derived. If it's via actual driving, then how could anyone possibly be sure to consistently drive two vehicles the same way? I'll tell you from experience that it's much easier to drive inefficiently in the Rav than the Leaf - you barely touch the pedal and it GOES. But with a little practice, I'm now getting about 4.0 miles / kwh for my daily commute (same commute was 4.7 in the Leaf, so about 15% less efficient in the Rav). Of course it's anecdotal, but it would seem to indicate the efficiency difference reported by the EPA is overblown (2.2 Rav vs 3.15 Leaf, or about 30% less efficient.)

Regarding your statement about buying the RAV4EV - you are also buying the battery. If you think the LEAF battery is expensive...

I look at buying any EV as buying the battery, and that's precisely why I recommend the Rav over the Leaf (and discourage the Volt and other PHEVs, for that matter). You get twice the battery but pay only about 15-20% more, and you also get systems that will better protect that battery.

 

[whitewi]

That is so cool. Now that my wife has her Leaf, I really want one

 

[toasty]

we fight over the plug(s)

 

[alcalira]

Better put a battery tender on that Prius! That's what we had to do when we got our Leaf and the Prius was just on standby like you said. We let it sit 6 weeks and it needed a jump start... twice... :lol:

No worries about the Prius--It gets driven every weekend for our kids' out-of-town soccer and lacrosse tournaments and swim meets.

iluvmacs: The 2013 SV you're awaiting sounds exactly like the one we just leased. Our local dealer just happened to have it in stock. I think you're going to love it. Ordering the SV with both packages is the least-expensive way to get the QC and the rear-view camera, along with B-mode, hybrid heater, and other goodies. The blue looks great with the black interior.

 

[DanCar]

I drove mine 130 miles the other day for a weekend trip to Palm Springs (something I'd never dream of doing in my Leaf) and still had 20 miles left on the GOM.

Was there an interim charge? What average speed?

 

[fooljoe]

I drove mine 130 miles the other day for a weekend trip to Palm Springs (something I'd never dream of doing in my Leaf) and still had 20 miles left on the GOM.

Was there an interim charge? What average speed?

No interim charge - just did an "extended charge" (Rav4-speak for 100%) overnight at my hotel before departing. Averaged ~65 for the most part, except where we ran into some patches of stop-and-go on the 91. The last 10 miles was going to my parents' and back on city streets for Mother's Day festivities.