May Deliveries! Or... May(be)?

[FilmMixer]

I am in the July time frame.. ordered 09/08/2010.

Just to add insult to injury, a friend of mine just walked into First Nissan in Simi over the weekend.. took home their "showroom demo" Leaf for 2500 over MSRP..

Same trim, options and color as mine.. he waited three days.... I'll be 10 months when all is said and done (and 15 months from reservation...)

My only real gripe is losing out on the full CA rebate due to Nissan's incompetence... the car I can wait for, it's just a shame to lose out on the financial end due to their complete mishandling of the ordering process.. and not that dealers shouldn't be able to gouge for orphaned or demos, but Nissan could've tried to secure those for customers on the list..

Providing Demos to dealers whilst there are still so many overlooked 2010 orders (especially yours FilmMixer!) are still pending is wrong IMO, though not surprising given how little NissanUSA apparently cares about the early adopters.
But if Nissan dealers are indeed selling these demos, that's really lame.

I certainly can't blame the customer who snapped it up. $2500 over MSRP minus a guaranteed $5k rebate puts him about the same as those 2010 "overlooked" CA customers who now miss out on the full CA rebate, AND waited 7-10 months to take delivery!

My friend also related to me that the dealership informed him they have another demo SE on the way to the lot for next week..

Unbelievable.....

 

[KeiJidosha]

I am in the July time frame.. ordered 09/08/2010.

Just to add insult to injury, a friend of mine just walked into First Nissan in Simi over the weekend.. took home their "showroom demo" Leaf for 2500 over MSRP..

Same trim, options and color as mine.. he waited three days.... I'll be 10 months when all is said and done (and 15 months from reservation...)

My only real gripe is losing out on the full CA rebate due to Nissan's incompetence... the car I can wait for, it's just a shame to lose out on the financial end due to their complete mishandling of the ordering process.. and not that dealers shouldn't be able to gouge for orphaned or demos, but Nissan could've tried to secure those for customers on the list..

Providing Demos to dealers whilst there are still so many overlooked 2010 orders (especially yours FilmMixer!) are still pending is wrong IMO, though not surprising given how little NissanUSA apparently cares about the early adopters.
But if Nissan dealers are indeed selling these demos, that's really lame.

I certainly can't blame the customer who snapped it up. $2500 over MSRP minus a guaranteed $5k rebate puts him about the same as those 2010 "overlooked" CA customers who now miss out on the full CA rebate, AND waited 7-10 months to take delivery!

My friend also related to me that the dealership informed him they have another demo SE on the way to the lot for next week..

Unbelievable.....

This was an orphan, not a demo.

 

[Packet]

the fact that they are still delivering February orders while September/October orders languish, shows that they are being dishonest with us regarding their motives, and that they have no honor.

I dunno that I think they're being actively dishonorable/malicious or have sinister motives. I refer to Hanlon's Razor: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

I don't think the Nissan folks are sitting in a boardroom cackling evilly, going, "And you know what? Let's screw over these guys who ordered in October and send the cars to someone who ordered in February, all to further our Nefarious Plot!" I think they just don't have a clue how to run a customer-facing system and handle delivery in a sane manner, and they're seemingly incapable of admitting the mistake or figuring out how to fix it. To me, that's pretty much the textbook definition of 'incompetence.'

 

[leafkabob]

I don't think the Nissan folks are sitting in a boardroom cackling evilly, going, "And you know what? Let's screw over these guys who ordered in October and send the cars to someone who ordered in February, all to further our Nefarious Plot!" I think they just don't have a clue how to run a customer-facing system and handle delivery in a sane manner, and they're seemingly incapable of admitting the mistake or figuring out how to fix it. To me, that's pretty much the textbook definition of 'incompetence.'

I think that back in February, when they realized they had delivery issues, Nissan looked at their production numbers and figured they could still get all of the 2010 orders delivered by April. I ordered on December 10 and I had an April delivery date. But then the earthquake came and instead of changing course, nissan stubbornly decided to stay the course. Then that pesky pollen problem reared its ugly head. Again, instead of doing anything different nissan decided to go full steam ahead with its "plan" (which simply consisted of doing nothing different). I agree that this is incompetent, but it also shows a certain amount of callous indifference. When I think of someone being incompetent, i generally expect that they are trying to do the job. In this case i don't think nissan is really seriously trying.

 

[FilmMixer]

This was an orphan, not a demo.

My friend was told it was their non driven showroom demo and that they had another orphan that may or may not come up..

Either way, demo or orphan, Nissan is not doing right by their customers...

Not to mention, if they did have an orphan, First Nissan could've easily gone down their list of customers in their queue...

I have been told by a reliable source that those at the top of the EV chain at Nissan are supposedly unaware their have been any issues with their ordering process or how cars have been delivered...

 

[LEAFfan]

I have been told by a reliable source that those at the top of the EV chain at Nissan are supposedly unaware their have been any issues with their ordering process or how cars have been delivered...

I was told that also by a very reliable source. I was really surprised when they said they didn't know.

 

[LEAFfan]

On the spreadsheet, there's only 2 Sept orders left waiting that have updated their entry fairly recently - you and sminhas.

If you mean those Sept. orders that are in CA, but mine is on that non-CA list.

 

[daniel]

I have been told by a reliable source that those at the top of the EV chain at Nissan are supposedly unaware their have been any issues with their ordering process or how cars have been delivered...

JMHO but I don't think this is possible. I'm reminded of when Ronald Reagan claimed to have no knowledge that his administration, in violation of U.S. law, was selling weapons to Iran and using the profits to supply weapons to the insurgents in Nicaragua. He was either lying and guilty of treason, or he was guilty of colossal malfeasance.

In this case, the execs who claim to be unaware of the complete chaos in the ordering and delivery of vehicles, are either lying, or are guilty of colossal malfeasance.

 

[FilmMixer]

I have been told by a reliable source that those at the top of the EV chain at Nissan are supposedly unaware their have been any issues with their ordering process or how cars have been delivered...

JMHO but I don't think this is possible. I'm reminded of when Ronald Reagan claimed to have no knowledge that his administration, in violation of U.S. law, was selling weapons to Iran and using the profits to supply weapons to the insurgents in Nicaragua. He was either lying and guilty of treason, or he was guilty of colossal malfeasance.

In this case, the execs who claim to be unaware of the complete chaos in the ordering and delivery of vehicles, are either lying, or are guilty of colossal malfeasance.

Daniel... If you can be patient, I will be able to clarify my information in a couple of weeks...

However, if you look at how well Toyota rolled out the RAV 4 EV (in minute numbers) and handled customers, vs. how Nissan has handled this rollout, skipped orders, web site snafus, etc... it doesn't strain credibility that one hand hasn't been keeping up with what the other is doing... Nissan has claimed, in public, at the last NY Auto Show, that all of the initial reservations would be completely delivered in the near future (20,000 cars..)

If you look at the current ad campaign, maybe marketing is driving one ship, the Leaf team another, and ordering/customer service (which I speculate was out of house/out sourced)... and they haven't met in the middle yet...

We shall see..

 

[ElectricVehicle]

I have been told by a reliable source that those at the top of the EV chain at Nissan are supposedly unaware their have been any issues with their ordering process or how cars have been delivered...

JMHO but I don't think this is possible. I'm reminded of when Ronald Reagan claimed to have no knowledge that his administration, in violation of U.S. law, was selling weapons to Iran and using the profits to supply weapons to the insurgents in Nicaragua. He was either lying and guilty of treason, or he was guilty of colossal malfeasance.

In this case, the execs who claim to be unaware of the complete chaos in the ordering and delivery of vehicles, are either lying, or are guilty of colossal malfeasance.

Daniel... If you can be patient, I will be able to clarify my information in a couple of weeks...

However, if you look at how well Toyota rolled out the RAV 4 EV (in minute numbers) and handled customers, vs. how Nissan has handled this rollout, skipped orders, web site snafus, etc... it doesn't strain credibility that one hand hasn't been keeping up with what the other is doing... Nissan has claimed, in public, at the last NY Auto Show, that all of the initial reservations would be completely delivered in the near future (20,000 cars..)

If you look at the current ad campaign, maybe marketing is driving one ship, the Leaf team another, and ordering/customer service (which I speculate was out of house/out sourced)... and they haven't met in the middle yet...

We shall see..

Yeah, Toyota said they would do something like 500 RAV4 EVs to consumers over two years. Well they only did it for only one year and only delivered about 250 RAV4 EVs, and then they stopped selling them saying there was no demand after selling EVERY SINGLE ONE they made and having a waiting list for more that Toyota never made. Then they testify to CARB and put out press releases that there was no demand. Toyota lied, broke their promises, and put out press materials that there was no demand. FLAT OUT BALD FACED LIES!! At least Nissan is working to get more vehicles out, rather than doing everything they can to kill EVs, like Toyota was doing. Nissan is doing a good job of promoting and getting more EVs on the road than past efforts by Toyota, GM, Honda, etc. Their ordering and delivery system needs improvement, but Nissan is delivering thousands of EVs, soon to be 10's of thousands and their building another EV production facility in Smyrna Tennessee. Nissan has already put more EVs on the road in consumer's hands than Toyota. And Nissan, obviously, is just getting warmed up and working towards higher volume production. The RAV4 EV is a great vehicle but Toyota intentionally, with malice, tried to kill it, EVs in general and lie about it through the entire program. In terms of results and number of EVs on the road in consumer's hands there's just no comparison between Toyota 10 years ago and Nissan today. Yes, the Nissan order mix ups are very frustrating, but Nissan will soon have thousands of LEAFs on the road, outnumbering all of the EVs from all manufacturers that were produced for a very limited time on exclusive waiting list from 10 years ago.

 

[jwatte]

In this case, the execs who claim to be unaware of the complete chaos in the ordering and delivery of vehicles, are either lying, or are guilty of colossal malfeasance.

I bet their flunkies are saying "you know how customers complain when they have to wait; we have it under control" and that's all they hear.

The flunkies, in turn, are delivering all the vehicles they can get in, which means they are billing all the dollars they can, so their bonuses are safe.

Marketing: It's a one-way street!

Until it isn't.

 

[daniel]

I have been told by a reliable source that those at the top of the EV chain at Nissan are supposedly unaware their have been any issues with their ordering process or how cars have been delivered...

JMHO but I don't think this is possible. I'm reminded of when Ronald Reagan claimed to have no knowledge that his administration, in violation of U.S. law, was selling weapons to Iran and using the profits to supply weapons to the insurgents in Nicaragua. He was either lying and guilty of treason, or he was guilty of colossal malfeasance.

In this case, the execs who claim to be unaware of the complete chaos in the ordering and delivery of vehicles, are either lying, or are guilty of colossal malfeasance.

Daniel... If you can be patient, I will be able to clarify my information in a couple of weeks...

However, if you look at how well Toyota rolled out the RAV 4 EV (in minute numbers) and handled customers, vs. how Nissan has handled this rollout, skipped orders, web site snafus, etc... it doesn't strain credibility that one hand hasn't been keeping up with what the other is doing... Nissan has claimed, in public, at the last NY Auto Show, that all of the initial reservations would be completely delivered in the near future (20,000 cars..)

If you look at the current ad campaign, maybe marketing is driving one ship, the Leaf team another, and ordering/customer service (which I speculate was out of house/out sourced)... and they haven't met in the middle yet...

We shall see..

"Plausible deniability" is a common ploy. Politicians use it all the time. Corporate criminals use it as well. Any executive at Nissan marketing or sales, or any executive to whom marketing and sales are expected to report, will be aware of a five-month-long disaster that has hundreds of people complaining at the top of their lungs on a chat board with "Nissan" in its name. I'm sorry, but I do not believe they were or are unaware. Potemkin kept Catherine the Great in the dark, but this is the internet age and the world is a very different place. No, I'm afraid the explanation is simply that they do not care, they have contempt for us, and they have no honor. I expect my car will come in a few months, and I'll probably buy it. But I have no respect for Nissan, and I will never again trust anything Nissan says. Their contempt for me has earned them my contempt.

 

[evnow]

Nissan has claimed, in public, at the last NY Auto Show, that all of the initial reservations would be completely delivered in the near future (20,000 cars..)

That was a misquote - they are only talking about delivering all the orders (which is now about 4.5K to 5K).

 

[Rake]

Mine arrived today, and it's now happily charging in the driveway!
A big thank you to Mike Sosa, the internet manager at Puyallup Nissan, and the whole crew - they were awesome!
I'm afraid I might wear out the touch screen, I can't stop fiddling with it! :lol:

 

[FilmMixer]

Nissan has claimed, in public, at the last NY Auto Show, that all of the initial reservations would be completely delivered in the near future (20,000 cars..)

That was a misquote - they are only talking about delivering all the orders (which is now about 4.5K to 5K).

Then this article is wrong... I know a reporter who was at the event, and he also has been directly questioning Nissan about how they are going to make the 20,000 #.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31347_7-20055672-270.html

Americas Chief Carlos Tavares then announced in January 2011 that all 20,000 U.S. customers would have their Leaf by this September.

As of today, however, Nissan said it is back on track and will deliver all 20,000 Nissan Leaf cars to the U.S. by the "end of the summer."

"Nissan is pleased to report that the first vessel carrying post earthquake-produced Nissan Leafs is scheduled to arrive to U.S. shores April 27," Tavares said in his keynote address today at the auto show.

Regardless the actual #'s, it doesn't change the issue with the system...

 

[FilmMixer]

Nissan has claimed, in public, at the last NY Auto Show, that all of the initial reservations would be completely delivered in the near future (20,000 cars..)

That was a misquote - they are only talking about delivering all the orders (which is now about 4.5K to 5K).

Then this article is wrong... I know a reporter who was at the event, and he also has been directly questioning Nissan about how they are going to make the 20,000 #.

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31347_7-20055672-270.html

Americas Chief Carlos Tavares then announced in January 2011 that all 20,000 U.S. customers would have their Leaf by this September.

As of today, however, Nissan said it is back on track and will deliver all 20,000 Nissan Leaf cars to the U.S. by the "end of the summer."

"Nissan is pleased to report that the first vessel carrying post earthquake-produced Nissan Leafs is scheduled to arrive to U.S. shores April 27," Tavares said in his keynote address today at the auto show.

Regardless the actual #'s, it doesn't change the issue with the system...

 

[Timbuk]

On-topic: received a call from Dennis at Nissan Sunnyvale last night: we can take delivery of our Leaf Sunday afternoon, so it's a May Delivery after all!

Off topic, regarding the corporate communications...big companies like Nissan rely upon their channel (dealers) to reach the actual end user. Same with the tech company that I work for. Although Nissan as an entity considers each of us important (in aggregate, at least), they don't hire (and pay for, and hike their prices to support) a parallel group to be personally answerable to each of us. Perhaps a smaller company with higher prices can do this (Tesla?), but in the grand cost/benefit analysis that drives the best long-term decisions, Nissan has focused their resources on product development and marketing. In most big companies, few people can actually speak publicly on the company's behalf (such as in a forum like this), and those with that authority generally have much broader responsibilities and simply can't dive down to this level and still do their jobs.

But trust me: Nissan has people monitoring this forum. And forums for Volt, MiniE, Tesla, Fisker (and Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, etc.). It's someone's job to monitor the rollout of the Leaf here in the US, but the goal is probably to better plan the next rollout rather than optimize this one: the wheels are turning, unexpected pollen falls, and you simply can't control every variable.

More to the point of the problems many of us have faced: the issues of reservations, port prep, accessory availability and installation, delivery, and dealer behavior are all with third-party vendors, who have their own cost/benefit analyses to make. You can't run a business without delegating a lot of responsibilities to people who may not necessarily share all of your concerns and priorities, because they have their own businesses to manage.

In my career, I've been part of decisions to end the sale of good products that we simply couldn't afford to sell and support, given volumes, reliability questions, parts availability, in-house and channel expertise, and many other factors. Have most of these decisions been rational? Sure. Have we disappointed individual customers? Absolutely. Does that make us evil and malicious? Of course not.

Every company pisses off some potential, current, or former customers. Apple, Tiffany, Proctor & Gamble, Starbucks, all of them. Intentionally? Probably not. But it just can't be prevented 100% of the time. As has been well documented in this forum, some of us have been luckier than others, and thanks to our ability to share notes and experience, we can compare and measure how fairly we feel we've been treated. But here's something to remember about luck: what may feel lucky or unlucky now can change in an instant with whatever happens next.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

great post Tim and congrats on your car. despite all the whining, complaining, etc. (i was there too!!) you will not regret a single second of the wait.

its like labor (since a friend of mine gave birth to her son about 3 hours ago) its a lot of pain, effort and 2nd thoughts, but when the baby comes, its all forgotten as being insignificant

 

[hvera]

My friend also related to me that the dealership informed him they have another demo SE on the way to the lot for next week..
Unbelievable.....

My PD said Nissan had pulled/cancelled all demos so they could get them to customers. Given the context of the conversation, I believe him.

 

[HIOJim]

It's been about 2 weeks since I got the "Week of May 16th, pollen problem, delivered no later than the end of May" phone call so I decided to see if CS had any update.

"Nate" told me that my car is *still* down in Long Beach. This time the reason given was the always handy "Waiting for the last accessory to be installed". He said that because of the Memorial Day holiday it probably won't be able to be put on a train until mid next week, and then it could be as much as 2 weeks for it to get to Portland. So it looks like I am destined for the 'June 2011 Delivery' thread.

I know I'm lucky to have a VIN, and I know that others are waiting even longer than I am. But giving people dates and promises and then not keeping them is worse than giving them no information at all. If they don't know when the car will be delivered, just say so. I can deal with *that*.

Still, I can't believe that all those cars have been parked down in Long beach since mid-March! The mind boggles...