Marketing Suggestions for Nissan: Let's Get Serious

[EdmondLeaf]

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...electric-car-sales-slump-whats-happening-here

"I've got 3,000 Leafs in dealer inventory now, but some dealers still have zero cars," Castignetti said. "It's a dispersion issue."

I am not sure if that is really dispersion issue. 6 mo inventory already here, means no more needed till end of the year. In OK and in TX you can buy right on if you want one.

 

[Train]

Geez, I just read that article. Leather seats, a 6 kilowatt charger and a better heater will spur sales? It's the same car. With the same issues:

High price.

Low range.

No high grade leather or heater will change that. I honestly think Nissan, is realizing that their 5 billion dollar gamble on an electric only car is in jeopardy and they are trying to desperately to deflect reality. They KNOW that there's no way they're going to hit near the sales numbers they projected.

Even if Nissan lowers the price a bit, it will not be nearly enough to get them sold in the numbers they need to keep production humming in TN.

It's going to be an interesting couple years. Looks like GM had the better plan after all.

 

[ztanos]

Geez, I just read that article. Leather seats, a 6 kilowatt charger and a better heater will spur sales? It's the same car. With the same issues:

High price.

Low range.

No high grade leather or heater will change that. I honestly think Nissan, is realizing that their 5 billion dollar gamble on an electric only car is in jeopardy and they are trying to desperately to deflect reality. They KNOW that there's no way they're going to hit near the sales numbers they projected.

Even if Nissan lowers the price a bit, it will not be nearly enough to get them sold in the numbers they need to keep production humming in TN.

It's going to be an interesting couple years. Looks like GM had the better plan after all.

I imagine that if they lowered the price to $30k before tax credits it would spark a lot of fence sitters. Here in Ga we get the 7500 for fed and another 5k for Ga so that would be $17,500. I think most of the people on this forum would have been chomping at the bit to buy one for that cheap.

 

[Herm]

Even at $17.5k people would still be afraid of the range and strangeness.. lower the price to $25k after the incentives, increase the range a bit and educate the people. Time should take care of these issues. A fast charger at the dealership (not free) would help also.

 

[DANandNAN]

$30K (b4 tax credit) with what equipment? If it's just a stripped down Leaf with less miles (which is possible because that's where the costs are) then it's not going to sell. If they don't nickle and dime away everything and can keep the range then a 30K (b4 credit) Leaf SV would be a better seller.

But, if they do that I think they have to lower the SL price. Otherwise it would be too much more than the SV for not enough reasons. Right now it's $2K more and you get the L3 charger, the 12V battery charging PV, fog lights, regenerative braking and a cargo cover - it really shows you how little those things actually cost. A 6.6 and leather aren't going to be enough to justify keeping the price at 38K. They'd have to drop that price by $4K.

Still, a $30K SV and $35K SL aren't going to get them to 20K Leaf's / year. In another year or two, as more folks understand and get over their range anxiety, Nissan will probably reach that 20K/year.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i see the price going back to 2011 pricing and NO LOWER. the problem here is people find any excuse they can to make the car not work for them.

for people who are interested, its simple math to realize that you will pay no more for the car than you would a mid sized, mid level vehicle. remember the average selling price of a new vehicle in the US was over $30,000. now, that is a VERY misleading statistic.

lets toss out the BS and see what was really paid and we find the average price is now $26,000 which is HEY!!

if we go back to 2011 pricing at $35,000 minus 7500 minus a negotiated discount or rebate from Nissan (betting they will be plentiful come 2013) and you have the average price paid for a new vehicle.

now, the reason the average price of a new vehicle dropped is because we took out the $40,000 pickups the $35,000 SUVs, etc. the remainder is average price paid for passenger vehicles. iow, same class as the LEAF

so now we even. but remember YOU WILL save $40-$150 a month in fuel savings. gas is cheap now. so i know what you are thinking... now, you can afford to fill up that Ford Explorer or that Edge... ya, buddy!

 

[SanDust]

In response to why GM has not sold as many Volts as expected, Steve Girsky, vice chairman of GM, had this to say:

I don't think consumers really know how to buy a product like this, or a Nissan Leaf, for that matter, where you're paying for most of the energy costs up front in the form of a battery. So your upfront costs are a lot higher. Your operational costs are a lot lower. Fleets would get it because they focus on cost of ownership and cost of operation, but the average consumer I'm not sure gets it so fast. http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article.cfm?articleid=3047" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Most consumers have a very short time horizon for payback. GM seems to be adapting to this non-rational behavior by offering leases with very low monthly payments and figuring they'll more than break even on the high residuals. Nissan may want to look at this approach. Most people won't care if the Leaf is $34K or $43K so long as the monthly lease payment is $199. Nissan toyed with the idea of selling the Leaf for a low price and renting the battery. Serial leasing may be more viable, especially with the concern over lost battery capacity.

 

[Deleted member 1622]

I've been hoping to see some kind of LEAF advertising on the Tour de France coverage. Seems like a natural to me, given their team sponsorship. But, I have to admit I've missed quite a bit of the coverage and do zap through uninteresting commercials. Has anyone seen LEAF ads during this years TDF coverage?

If the LEAF had just a bit more range they could use it as a team car. That would be sweet!

I completely agree on this one. I watch the Tour religiously and have yet to see a single mention of the Leaf (this is in contrast to last year, when Nissan was constantly playing Leaf ads).
Nissan is a co-sponsor with Radioshack for one of the top cycling teams in the world (they rank right up there with BMC and Sky). This is the premier cycling event in the world, watched by millions (should I say a billion?). Maybe the U.S. isn't where all the interest is, but certainly in Europe and globally this is one of the biggest events in sports next to the World Cup, Super Bowl and the Olympics.
It's a major missed opportunity to get the word out, and it again makes me question where the Leaf's strategy lies.

Josh

 

[GRA]

I've been hoping to see some kind of LEAF advertising on the Tour de France coverage. Seems like a natural to me, given their team sponsorship. But, I have to admit I've missed quite a bit of the coverage and do zap through uninteresting commercials. Has anyone seen LEAF ads during this years TDF coverage?

If the LEAF had just a bit more range they could use it as a team car. That would be sweet!

I completely agree on this one. I watch the Tour religiously and have yet to see a single mention of the Leaf (this is in contrast to last year, when Nissan was constantly playing Leaf ads).
Nissan is a co-sponsor with Radioshack for one of the top cycling teams in the world (they rank right up there with BMC and Sky). This is the premier pharmaceutical cycling event in the world, watched by millions (should I say a billion?). Maybe the U.S. isn't where all the interest is, but certainly in Europe and globally this is one of the biggest events in evading drug tests next to the World Cup, Super Bowl and the Olympics.
It's a major missed opportunity to get the word out, and it again makes me question where the Leaf's strategy lies.

Josh

There, I fixed it for you! :roll:

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I'm going to be bold and say cost isn't the issue, it's instead a sense of value. I think the range is the issue. the cost is a factor mostly because of the low range. no matter how many graphs you pull out and try and convince people that they should be comfortable with less range because the average commute is only 30 miles, people still want more range. sometimes it's more important to look at what people are comfortable with already rather than trying to convince them to change. Most cars get about 300+ miles to a tank of gas. Honestly, it's imperative that Nissan comes out with a denser less expensive chemistry, keep the car at the same price but substantially increase the range... and add TMS! I know, I'm probably dreamn'.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

I'm going to be bold and say cost isn't the issue, it's instead a sense of value. I think the range is the issue. the cost is a factor mostly because of the low range. no matter how many graphs you pull out and try and convince people that they should be comfortable with less range because the average commute is only 30 miles, people still want more range. sometimes it's more important to look at what people are comfortable with already rather than trying to convince them to change. Most cars get about 300+ miles to a tank of gas. Honestly, it's imperative that Nissan comes out with a denser less expensive chemistry, keep the car at the same price but substantially increase the range... and add TMS! I know, I'm probably dreamn'.

The only way I can explain Nissan lack of any response to battery degradation in hot climates is that is no longer interested to be leader in EV revolution. I thought this is just a beginning and we early adopters will play significant role in spreading the word and helping Nissan in this endeavor We can't do that if we are alienated and pushed aside. I thought that communication with Nissan will be great and we will be partners. I am very sad how things are progressing, hopefully Nissan will realize that in fact we are partners and we want Leaf to be a huge success.

 

[kmp647]

On my morning commute I hear an ad for the Leaf on a local radio station, 105.9 (here in the Northern Va DC Maryland area)

it was a quick ad but was something like " hey maryland and Virginia drivers get a Nissan leaf and get unlimited HOV lane access, dump the pump and get to work HOV" the ad itself was weak and hard to understand. 15 seconds

there is only one slight problem, you dont get unlimitd access, as of July 2011 in virginia they limited the access to new purchasers and eliminated the route 66 HOV access privelidge for hybrid and electric cars.

I know this because I skipped getting the special tags as they do me no good. Now there are some commuters who can still get tags on a Leaf and benefit,

I bring this up because its the first ad of its kind I have heard , and its also innacurate

BTW this was a corporate ad from Nisssan USA , no particular dealer named.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I'm going to be bold and say cost isn't the issue, it's instead a sense of value. I think the range is the issue. the cost is a factor mostly because of the low range. no matter how many graphs you pull out and try and convince people that they should be comfortable with less range because the average commute is only 30 miles, people still want more range. sometimes it's more important to look at what people are comfortable with already rather than trying to convince them to change. Most cars get about 300+ miles to a tank of gas. Honestly, it's imperative that Nissan comes out with a denser less expensive chemistry, keep the car at the same price but substantially increase the range... and add TMS! I know, I'm probably dreamn'.

The only way I can explain Nissan lack of any response to battery degradation in hot climates is that is no longer interested to be leader in EV revolution. I thought this is just a beginning and we early adopters will play significant role in spreading the word and helping Nissan in this endeavor We can't do that if we are alienated and pushed aside. I thought that communication with Nissan will be great and we will be partners. I am very sad how things are progressing, hopefully Nissan will realize that in fact we are partners and we want Leaf to be a huge success.

i would substitute "lacked patience and understanding" here.


GiS; the LEAF was never marketed to be a "one car for all needs" so it will not soon gain any range here. as it stands, it can easily provide a significant role in an average 2 commuter household's transportation need.


battery degradation has been kicked around endlessly here and i get that. if i was in AZ, i too would be concerned and our self-centered, want it now psyche that we Americans have become accustomed to does not allow us the patience to wait for an answer tomorrow when we have no interest in understanding why the answer cannot be provided today. the unknown is a terrible thing and Nissan has not helped at all with its total silence approach.

there are several very valid reasons for Nissan's delay in making a statement. but those reasons have been hashed over endlessly and no matter what is said, no matter what points are made, the discussion goes right back to where it started.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

I am in awkward position. Recommended Leaf to person that use car for 30 miles RT which should be nothing for Leaf. At that point it was not clear that temp is main factor affecting battery. For that person, Leaf is daily commuter as it should be, this year is so far reasonable concerning temps, not that many days with 100+. Now that person informs me that lost already quite few GIDs and had battery temp in 7TB. I feel so bad hearing that and feel guilty, I feel I should give that person recommendation what to do, but there is none. Please tell me how to assure that person that after 8 years and 100KM 70-80% capacity will be still there knowing that few in TX (similar temps, or this year higher here) already lost 2 capacity bars.

 

[TomT]

Simply put, you can't.

Please tell me how to assure that person that after 8 years and 100KM 70-80% capacity will be still there knowing that few in TX (similar temps, or this year higher here) already lost 2 capacity bars.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Simply put, you can't.

Please tell me how to assure that person that after 8 years and 100KM 70-80% capacity will be still there knowing that few in TX (similar temps, or this year higher here) already lost 2 capacity bars.

I do not believe I am the only one that got Leaf believing that stated capacity is sure fact.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Simply put, you can't.

Please tell me how to assure that person that after 8 years and 100KM 70-80% capacity will be still there knowing that few in TX (similar temps, or this year higher here) already lost 2 capacity bars.

+1. you are making HUGE assumptions about long term battery degradation and what gives you the right?


a 30 mile commute will probably be doable for 20 years. but that is not the point either. i am sure the person has other plans for the vehicle.


i dont understand this discussion. it appears to me that everyone feels that they were duped by Nissan. tricked into signing the bottom line, Nissan runs off with the money and we are on our own...

did i get that right? is this how we feel? is it? does ANY OF THIS make sense to you? Nissan is willing to jeopardize a $5B investment over the cost of replacing a few hundred battery packs? is this where you are headed?

well, i think you are wrong, but then again, you already knew that. what i think our biggest problem is our immense distrust of Big Business. we been screwed by them many times, of that there is no doubt but this is probably gonna have to qualify as a completely different situation.

So, Nissan can alienate 15% of the population (which also has 55% of the solar which is a significant marketing point for an EV) and "hope" that is ok?

ya right...

i tried to assess the real loss of functionality in a thread and received a minimal response. granted we are microcosm of the LEAF world but there is literally less than a dozen people who "might" be in danger of not being able to make their commute due to the loss of range in the near future. so it sounds like the issue is most definitely cause for concern but also appears to have time to properly assess the situation and find a solution.

 

[Stoaty]

there are several very valid reasons for Nissan's delay in making a statement. but those reasons have been hashed over endlessly and no matter what is said, no matter what points are made, the discussion goes right back to where it started.

Yes, there are valid reasons from Nissan's point of view. They are in a tight spot because they didn't disclose what they must have known before the sale. Now their options aren't too palatable:

--If they say "we screwed up in not informing customers" it will hurt sales, since then the word will really be out.
--If they just start informing prospective customers in hot states about this issue, it will hurt sales.
--If they offer to buy back or convert to lease for anyone in affected hot areas, they will be admitting there is a problem and that they weren't forthcoming, and it will hurt sales.
--If they have a secret plan to change battery chemistry in the 2013 model or add a TMS so that future cars won't be affected to this degree and they disclose it, it will hurt sales
--If they remain silent they will alienate a portion of their loyal early adopters, but may be able to skate with future buyers if they fix the problems in the 2013 model

The bottom line is that Nissan got themselves into this jam, and they want to do what they can to extract themselves from it with the least hit to their product or their bottom line. However, that isn't the same as what is best for current, affected customers, and it may not be the best choice to avoid damaging the Leaf brand.

 

[SanDust]

i dont understand this discussion. it appears to me that everyone feels that they were duped by Nissan. tricked into signing the bottom line, Nissan runs off with the money and we are on our own...

When the press was running with the "Volt Fire" issue GM came out and said that it didn't think there was a problem but if there was they'd fix it. It also offered to buy back the cars from anyone worried about the fires. Nissan wouldn't need to go that far, though it wouldn't hurt, but it could say that it would take care of those owners in hot climates who were experiencing the loss of battery capacity. It could also offer to convert sales to leases for any Leaf owner worried about the battery capacity.

I agree with you that Nissan will ultimately do the right thing because not doing it would kill their investment. However, if I owned one of the cars losing capacity bars I'm unsure if I would feel the same way. Nissan needs to move proactively before people start viewing it negatively and thinking that it will only do something when forced to.

 

[thankyouOB]

i tried to assess the real loss of functionality in a thread and received a minimal response. granted we are microcosm of the LEAF world but there is literally less than a dozen people who "might" be in danger of not being able to make their commute due to the loss of range in the near future. so it sounds like the issue is most definitely cause for concern but also appears to have time to properly assess the situation and find a solution.

I have Dave's question: do we know what percentage of TX and AZ Leafs have lost a bar or two bars?