Lost my first bar, I am very disapointed

[stanley]

Lost the bar today at 27,300 and 28 months of ownership. My range is down about 15 miles.I live along coastal San Diego Ca. I charge to 80 percent almost always. The car on average is in my garage about 22 hours each day. The temperature in the garage ranges from 65 to 73. I love the car but am deeply disappointed in the durability of the battery. I am happy that I leased. After the 3 year lease is up, I will not likely buy another Leaf if it has the same battery chemistry. It looks like a Tesla is in my future.

 

[mksE55]

I would have love to have gotten 27,000 miles and 28 months. but I understand you frustration. the sad part is you will now loose bars faster and probably feel the pain of a shorter range before your 3 yrs is up. the up side for me is I will get a new battery soon and have some range back for my last yr.

 

[kubel]

I thought the reason the first bar was so wide was because Nissan expected the degradation to be rapid initially. I'm guessing with non-temperature related degradation, the loss of bars will be relatively consistent.

 

[nosuchthing]

I've lost first CB at 38,700 in Marin. Temps are coastal to max about 90 on occassion. Not too often. Mostly 80s daytime, 50s at night. Charge 100% every night.

Batt temp gauge is 5 or 6 even on hottest days. 4 in winter. The only time I've seen 7 was with a QC. In retrospect I wish I've never done it. I just wanted to test my Chademo if it's actually working. It took hours to chill down to 6 again. I've lost my CB soon after. Coincidence?

 

[TomT]

Yep, I agree, though I lost my first bar long before you did...

Lost the bar today at 27,300 and 28 months of ownership. My range is down about 15 miles.I live along coastal San Diego Ca. I charge to 80 percent almost always. The car on average is in my garage about 22 hours each day. The temperature in the garage ranges from 65 to 73. I love the car but am deeply disappointed in the durability of the battery. I am happy that I leased. After the 3 year lease is up, I will not likely buy another Leaf if it has the same battery chemistry. It looks like a Tesla is in my future.

 

[Randy]

Sorry, Stanley, I'm probably right behind you with my LEAF...

What I have learned is that the LEAF is a gateway drug electric car on the way to the Tesla....No regrets so far....

 

[adric22]

I would have love to have gotten 27,000 miles and 28 months. but I understand you frustration. the sad part is you will now loose bars faster and probably feel the pain of a shorter range before your 3 yrs is up. the up side for me is I will get a new battery soon and have some range back for my last yr.

I was under the impression the degradation would be worst the first 2 years and then be more gradual.

 

[TomT]

My experience has shown that it is more linear than I we were originally led to believe...

I was under the impression the degradation would be worst the first 2 years and then be more gradual.

 

[hyperlexis]

Everyone keeps saying the Tesla is the solution to all their problems (If I could buy a $60k car, I wouldn't have many problems....)

And yes the Tesla is as close to perfect, even per Consumer Reports, as an EV can get. I test drove one and definitely concur! But what, prey tell, are Tesla users reporting their 'lost capacity' experiences have been? How are their batteries and range holding up and what does Tesla do for any lost range?

And no, alas, I don't follow the Tesla thread....

 

[surfingslovak]

And no, alas, I don't follow the Tesla thread....

You might want to read this recent thread then:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13610&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[LEAFfan]

And no, alas, I don't follow the Tesla thread....

You might want to read this recent thread then:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=13610&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's pretty general though. I would like to see a more specific study of their batteries in a hot climate like ours. I imagine that the worst for them would be sitting in a hot parking lot all day because the TMS can only run so long without the car being on or plugged in.

 

[gaswalla]

there are threads on the teslamotorsclub forum.. the software upgrades are a variable that confuses capacity/range losses vs. new software behavior. There are multiple forum users with over 20k and some with over 30k miles without any significant capacity losses. Plus, location appears to not play a role into concerns for losses. Further note that swapping out the battery for a new one will be very easy with the Tesla in a short while: there will be a cost associated based on the "health" of the battery, but it's so easy.. now compare that to the LEAF

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

despite the great work done on the degradation chart it is looking like the Pacific Northwest packs will only go a bit longer than other parts of the country. One lost a bar at 42,000ish so looks like time is a bigger factor than anticipated.

the thought of driving on a pack for 15 years as many have mentioned may not be possible. info on this is far from complete but initial reports not looking good as many head into their 3rd year

 

[stanley]

Goshen was a visionary with respect to electric cars and the potential of owning the EV market. I would never have bought a Nissan product if it was not for the hallo that the Leaf gave to Nissan's overall image. Has he lost his enthusiasm? I am sure that Nissan is working on new battery technology but it may take too long to achieve it causing Nissan to loose the entry and luxury markets to Tesla. Now is the time for Nissan to act. There are many short term things that Nissan can do to sure up their current EV good will and fend off Tesla. For example, Come out with an Infiniti with optional larger battery packs. So that a loss of one or even two bars would be less impact full to range. Or a full warranty for 5years or 50,000 miles. Restoring the battery pack to a full 12 bars during that period. The point is that if Nissan stands still with the same old ,same old, by the time 2015 or 2016 rolls around they could be an afterthought in the EV world and the billions Nissan has already spent will have been wasted.

 

[surfingslovak]

despite the great work done on the degradation chart it is looking like the Pacific Northwest packs will only go a bit longer than other parts of the country. One lost a bar at 42,000ish so looks like time is a bigger factor than anticipated.

Yes, some of these batteries seem to be declining faster than anticipated, I acknowledged that in couple of other threads already. Most of the literature assumes that capacity loss will level off over time, typically with a square root of time. This was visible in the chart a Nissan engineer shared with some of the Phoenix drivers also. The decline we see in the field is more linear.

the thought of driving on a pack for 15 years as many have mentioned may not be possible. info on this is far from complete but initial reports not looking good as many head into their 3rd year

Brian's particular problem was that he parked his LEAF in a garage that was several degrees above ambient. This negates some of the positive effect the cool climate in the Pacific Northwest has on batteries. The aging model was only considering ambient temperature, since it's impossible to know what everyone's micro-climate in the garage was. That said, the Arrhenius equation predicted that batteries in the Bay Area will last about twice as long as Phoenix batteries and Seattle LEAFs will last three times as long.

While it's still a bit premature to talk about it, given that a number of batteries had to be replaced in Phoenix after 2.5 years, we can expect to see a similar situation in Seattle after 7.5 to 8 years (i.e. 3 x 2.5). If it pans out this way, it would be about half of the 15-year time frame you mentioned. Please keep in mind that the aging model was put together based on the what seems to be the consensus in R&D literature, and it was later adjusted to match the data Nissan has shared with Phoenix drivers. If this prediction turns out to be incorrect, we will need to adjust the model and our expectations of how long these batteries will last until they reach end of life (70% capacity remaining).

 

[thankyouOB]

is there a significant longevity factor to keeping a car for 7 hours a day in a 6 bar climate garage rather than a 5 bar climate garage, including trickle charging during that parking?
what is your guess.
i have the oppty to pick the 5-bar, but it is longer walk to the office.

 

[surfingslovak]

is there a significant longevity factor to keeping a car for 7 hours a day in a 6 bar climate garage rather than a 5 bar climate garage, including trickle charging during that parking?
what is your guess.
i have the oppty to pick the 5-bar, but it is longer walk to the office.

Let me think about this for a bit. Would it be strictly during business hours? This would mean that your LEAF spends about 20% of the time there. How much cooler is that garage in your opinion? About 5 degrees? The potential benefit is that the car would sit in this garage during the hottest part of the day. One Phoenix owner was apparently able to slow down capacity loss by about 30% by having A/C in his garage. Since the car spends most of its life there, the impact is a bit greater.

 

[TomT]

With the Leaf, it is pretty much a given that cooler is better.

is there a significant longevity factor to keeping a car for 7 hours a day in a 6 bar climate garage rather than a 5 bar climate garage, including trickle charging during that parking?