Level III charging a Leaf

[lne937s]

Remember that the DC voltage going into the pack needs to be higher than the voltage in the pack or it will not add charge. You can't just plug in 220 DC. So that would require a transformer. Add in DC conversion and control functions. While you are at it, you might as well get a separate utility connection, so you can pull more power....

So basically, you end up with something similar to the transformer-based Level III charger Nissan developed sells for ~$17,500

 

[Frank]

Have any new Leaf owners charged using L3 yet? If so, please post your experience. Thanks.

 

[PDXLeafer]

Have any new Leaf owners charged using L3 yet? If so, please post your experience. Thanks.

Yes! Made a little trip today to try out all the charging stations in the area. Thought there would be more! One that I had a chance to try was the PGE L3 Charger at World Trade Center (Portland) in the parking garage under the building. Arrived with 43%, paid the $4 for parking, and after 20 minutes (including fooling around with getting the dual-levered pistol grip hooked up correctly to the car) we left... at 75% capacity

A few pics of the car hooked up, the charger, and some screens to show how fast it was cramming juice into the batteries:

Great day, tried out L1 at OMSI and found that 2 out of 4 of the outlets did not put out any juice. L2 at my house, Dealership in Beaverton and streetside at World Trace Center, and L3 at World Trade Center. But, with all the driving around I only had about 50% remaining when I got home. There are a few more L2 stations in the Portland Metro area, and tons of L1 options (many listed on the maps). It was good to actually go to the places and test to see what worked, and if there were any complications with certain locations, especially if I were to need to rely on them working.

 

[LakeLeaf]

Nice - could well be the first documented L3 charge of a Leaf!

 

[DarkStar]

Nice - could well be the first documented L3 charge of a Leaf!

I think this is the first "production" LEAF on a DC Quick Charge (it's not "Level 3" yet ).

 

[planet4ever]

So you were getting 38 amps at 392 volts, or nearly 15 kW. But 15 kW for 30 minutes wouldn't come close to filling the battery to 80% if you were starting at the "Low Battery" level. By my calculations you would need about 14 or 15 kWh for that, which would actually take (duh) about an hour.

Incidentally, the other fascinating statistics here are:
66% Accum. power 2.5 kWh
73% Accum. power 4.0 kWh

By simple subtraction, 1.5 kWh = 7% which works out to 21.4 kWh = 100%.

Now, we're talking pretty low precision on those numbers, so we probably should say it's somewhere between 21 and 22 kWh. Even so, I was expecting something closer to 24 kWh.

[I'm sure it's obvious to most of us, but these numbers are interesting because they split the losses we've seen in other "wall to wheels" numbers. The only losses here are battery (and possibly BMS) losses, not charger losses.]

 

[awallis]

So you were getting 38 amps at 392 volts, or nearly 15 kW. But 15 kW for 30 minutes wouldn't come close to filling the battery to 80% if you were starting at the "Low Battery" level. By my calculations you would need about 14 or 15 kWh for that, which would actually take (duh) about an hour.
]

If you look at the first picture where it shows 66%, you'll see the amps were higher. The charger varies amperage and voltage in order to fully charge the battery. That is, the battery pack can show (briefly) a voltage level that is "full", but it quickly drops, so the charger then keeps going and adding energy at lower amps. The charger is thus constantly looking at voltage but then checking if there "room" for more energy in the pack.

Not a great explanation, sorry, but I think that's the gist.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Nice - could well be the first documented L3 charge of a Leaf!

Not he first but an early one. Some have charged here in CA already in Vacaville.

 

[Frank]

Have any new Leaf owners charged using L3 yet? If so, please post your experience. Thanks.

Yes! Made a little trip today to try out all the charging stations in the area. Thought there would be more! One that I had a chance to try was the PGE L3 Charger at World Trade Center (Portland) in the parking garage under the building. Arrived with 43%, paid the $4 for parking, and after 20 minutes (including fooling around with getting the dual-levered pistol grip hooked up correctly to the car) we left... at 75% capacity

Great day, tried out L1 at OMSI and found that 2 out of 4 of the outlets did not put out any juice. L2 at my house, Dealership in Beaverton and streetside at World Trace Center, and L3 at World Trade Center. But, with all the driving around I only had about 50% remaining when I got home. There are a few more L2 stations in the Portland Metro area, and tons of L1 options (many listed on the maps). It was good to actually go to the places and test to see what worked, and if there were any complications with certain locations, especially if I were to need to rely on them working.

Great info and photos. How did these chargers handle your payment for the juice, or was it free?

 

[PDXLeafer]

Great info and photos. How did these chargers handle your payment for the juice, or was it free?

Payment?!? Dude, this is Portland! http://www.ifc.com/videos/portlandia-portland-dream-of-the-90s.php
(But, the parking garage charged me $4 for the 'day' to pull in and charge for 15 minutes)

 

[Spies]

Not he first but an early one. Some have charged here in CA already in Vacaville.

Is it available to the public yet?

 

[LEAFer]

Not he first but an early one. Some have charged here in CA already in Vacaville.

Is it available to the public yet?

No, unfortunately not. It may be operational, but I received an emailed reply to my specific inquiry about using it, and was basically told UL listing is not complete and allowing use of the station by "public" creates a liability and insurance problem. ( I should not make any further statement )

 

[DarkStar]

Is it even possible for the CHAdeMO connector to be UL listed? I know the SAE hasn't accepted it yet, but has UL?

 

[evnow]

Incidentally, the other fascinating statistics here are:
66% Accum. power 2.5 kWh
73% Accum. power 4.0 kWh

By simple subtraction, 1.5 kWh = 7% which works out to 21.4 kWh = 100%.

Now, we're talking pretty low precision on those numbers, so we probably should say it's somewhere between 21 and 22 kWh. Even so, I was expecting something closer to 24 kWh.

Interesting.

BTW, depending on when the 66% changes to 67% - this could be 73.9-66.0=7.9% or 73.0 - 66.9=6.1% (assuming till it actually hits 67, it will keep showing 66%). So, the precesion is actually much less - between 19kwh to 25 kwh.

 

[planet4ever]

Thank you, evnow. I occasionally forget how much precision you lose when you subtract two numbers close to each other. My faith in 24 kWh is restored.

[Dang! Only 72.68 years and the brain is turning to mush.]
[Or, wait, do I need to add some imprecise number up to 9 months to that value?]

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Nice - could well be the first documented L3 charge of a Leaf!

I think this is the first "production" LEAF on a DC Quick Charge (it's not "Level 3" yet ).

Is there some formal definition of L3 that excludes this charger?

I'm willing to award PDXLeafer "First documented L3 charge" or the lesser "DC Quick Charge", either way.

 

[DarkStar]

Is there some formal definition of L3 that excludes this charger?

Level 1 and Level 2 are defined by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). Per the J1772-2010 specification, Level 1 is 120 volt charging and Level 2 is 240 volt charging. They haven't named anything "Level 3" yet, however the next section of the J1772-2010 specification is for "DC Charging" which states is "Under development." CHAdeMO refers to their standard as "DC Quick Charge" and doesn't refer to "Level 3" in any of their documents (yet).

I image that if (or when ) the SAE adopts CHAdeMO as their DC Charging standard, that they'll probably name it "Level 3," but so far it has no definition.

 

[AndyH]

Is it even possible for the CHAdeMO connector to be UL listed? I know the SAE hasn't accepted it yet, but has UL?

SAE isn't likely to accept CHAdeMO as they're working on their own L3/DC Fast/Quick charge connector as part of J1772.

The CHAdeMO connector is already approved by the UL - per the SAE J1772 Hybrid Task Force in Aug '10 - I heard it with my own ears. :
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=17608#p17608

There are two US companies with DC Fast Chargers for sale. Aker-Wade partnered with Coulomb Tech - they planted their first fast charger in the Detroit metro area last December. Eaton has a fast charger on the market, as does Nissan.

More info here: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2501

L3 appears to be a deprecated label. All hail DC Fast (quick) Charging.

 

[PDXLeafer]

Nice - could well be the first documented L3 charge of a Leaf!

I think this is the first "production" LEAF on a DC Quick Charge (it's not "Level 3" yet ).

Is there some formal definition of L3 that excludes this charger?

I'm willing to award PDXLeafer "First documented L3 charge" or the lesser "DC Quick Charge", either way.

Ha! An award for plugging in my LEAF?!?

The L3 reference was, if incorrect, accidental. It plugs in to the L3 port, so I guess I 'assumed' it was

Hey, when do the red carpet people contact me about my 'major award'? :lol:

 

[hill]

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . snip
The J1772-2010 standard could just state that Level 3 is the CHAdeMO standard without publishing that standard. It would continue to require companies to join the group (costing lost of money) in order to receive a copy of the standard to implement it.

The CHAdeMO patent is owned by Tokyo Electric Power Company, so even if someone figures out the exact protocol to make up a cheep(er) / knock off working device, I'm sure that right about the time one began turning a profit, there'd be somebody knocking on your door with TRO in hand. They won't be selling CHAdeMO at harbor freight for a long long time.

Great info and photos. How did these chargers handle your payment for the juice, or was it free?

Payment?!? Dude, this is Portland! http://www.ifc.com/videos/portlandia-portland-dream-of-the-90s.php
(But, the parking garage charged me $4 for the 'day' to pull in and charge for 15 minutes)

Hey wait a minute . . . don't you Origonians keep everyone working by prohibiting self serve?!? You MUST have gotten the attendant to charge it for you ... no?