Leafs Over Texas!
- Thread starter AndyH
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
aqn said:
LonghornLeaf said:
N952JL said:Would love for them to open Georgia. My deposit was last April 2010. And as far as Nissan is concern, forgotten.
OK, sorry to announce this, but I must, hoping to find more AUSTIN LEAF OWNERS: I picked up my car last Saturday. The sales guy (Dana Woodbury of Town North Nissan, good guy) sez he's delivering some 25 LEAFs over the next month. He sent me a pic of my LEAF on the transporter, along with five other LEAFs. But, AFAIK, I'm the only Austinite on this board?
(Mine is the black 'un.)
P.S. I have an issue not being able to charge the LEAF on a GFCI outlet.
jhm614
Well-known member
aqn said:I picked up my car last Saturday. The sales guy (Dana Woodbury of Town North Nissan, good guy) sez he's delivering some 25 LEAFs over the next month. He sent me a pic of my LEAF on the transporter, along with five other LEAFs. But, AFAIK, I'm the only Austinite on this board?
(Mine is the black 'un.)
WooHoo! Congrats, Andy! and another Woo Hoo for a Texas Truck of Leafs!
Pipcecil
Well-known member
Sigh, still no leaf despite the large truck that seemed to drizzle the Texas area with Leafs (my date was April 29th..). So, more info on eVgo...actually more of a correction:
While going through their final paperwork, it seems that the home charger will never cross into ownership. We were described the plan as a "cell phone" type plan, meaning once you get out of contract, your phone hardware is paid for, so you can have full access to it. This was actually incorrect, the charger is actually a rental (similar to your cable box), which you pay until you get out of contract (3 years) and decide to buy an EVSE or just keep renting it per month until you no longer have the car.
The math on this makes eVgo a really hard sell IMO. For 3 years, the charger comes to $1,750. If, at that point you decide to leave eVgo, they take your EVSE, meaning you have to buy a whole new one (so your out $1,750)! If you decide to stay when them for the life of the car (assuming maybe 10 years), thats $6,000!!!! :shock:
Cost wise, none of these options are appealing. Buying an EVSE ($1,000 - $1,500 depending on which EVSE you choose) and installing it ($300-$1,200 depending who installs it) comes out cheaper every time since you will never own the EVSE from eVgo.
Upon finding this out, my wife and I decided to ditch eVgo. Every situation is a a loss. The only arguement for them is if you lease, which, at that point, its probably a good deal or if you really can't afford the upfront cost of an EVSE. But for buying, it makes little fiscal logic. I think the adversion to always "renting" something and never owning (or even building equity in the item) is a huge put-off to myself and my wife. This is, infortunately, very sad. I don't think their setup is sustainable. I would rate most current and near future Leaf owners very intellegent and not to take the easy way out, and I see very little people going to their system if they basically overcharge you for an EVSE you will never own. This, unfortunately, is very very sad IMO considering they amount of public infrastructure for charging they are adding into Texas, which will be underutilized.
I don't know if they have any intention of splitting off their chargers from their plans (this seems the way they will make their money to fund the public chargers). I think they would get more than a few nibbles if they offered a option to access the public chargers only (no home charger added). My leaf will have the QC charger because I believe there will be more in the future, and its always a nice "oh crap" moment to be able to fill your vehicle in a decent amount of time if range suddenly drops.
As for my wife and my final choice for charger we decided to go with a "cash and go" option with the AV unit. We got a local electrition to quote an installation at $300 dollars (way cheaper than AV's infamous $1,200 install). The until is $1,000, which is $500 cheaper than Blink's, and the AV unit, as my wife puts it, is more "sleek."
So there we go, just giving everyone an update on eVgo and how it panned out.
While going through their final paperwork, it seems that the home charger will never cross into ownership. We were described the plan as a "cell phone" type plan, meaning once you get out of contract, your phone hardware is paid for, so you can have full access to it. This was actually incorrect, the charger is actually a rental (similar to your cable box), which you pay until you get out of contract (3 years) and decide to buy an EVSE or just keep renting it per month until you no longer have the car.
The math on this makes eVgo a really hard sell IMO. For 3 years, the charger comes to $1,750. If, at that point you decide to leave eVgo, they take your EVSE, meaning you have to buy a whole new one (so your out $1,750)! If you decide to stay when them for the life of the car (assuming maybe 10 years), thats $6,000!!!! :shock:
Cost wise, none of these options are appealing. Buying an EVSE ($1,000 - $1,500 depending on which EVSE you choose) and installing it ($300-$1,200 depending who installs it) comes out cheaper every time since you will never own the EVSE from eVgo.
Upon finding this out, my wife and I decided to ditch eVgo. Every situation is a a loss. The only arguement for them is if you lease, which, at that point, its probably a good deal or if you really can't afford the upfront cost of an EVSE. But for buying, it makes little fiscal logic. I think the adversion to always "renting" something and never owning (or even building equity in the item) is a huge put-off to myself and my wife. This is, infortunately, very sad. I don't think their setup is sustainable. I would rate most current and near future Leaf owners very intellegent and not to take the easy way out, and I see very little people going to their system if they basically overcharge you for an EVSE you will never own. This, unfortunately, is very very sad IMO considering they amount of public infrastructure for charging they are adding into Texas, which will be underutilized.
I don't know if they have any intention of splitting off their chargers from their plans (this seems the way they will make their money to fund the public chargers). I think they would get more than a few nibbles if they offered a option to access the public chargers only (no home charger added). My leaf will have the QC charger because I believe there will be more in the future, and its always a nice "oh crap" moment to be able to fill your vehicle in a decent amount of time if range suddenly drops.
As for my wife and my final choice for charger we decided to go with a "cash and go" option with the AV unit. We got a local electrition to quote an installation at $300 dollars (way cheaper than AV's infamous $1,200 install). The until is $1,000, which is $500 cheaper than Blink's, and the AV unit, as my wife puts it, is more "sleek."
So there we go, just giving everyone an update on eVgo and how it panned out.
adric22
Well-known member
Pipcecil said:
I'm in the same boat with you. I do not understand EVGo's business model. It is flawed in so many ways. Since they appear to have no intention of allowing or selling their services to the public unless you also rent the home unit, the public chargers will sit around being unused. If I started up my own charging infrastructure company and went to a business owner with the proposition of installing a charging station on their property, I'd want to be able to tell the owner that anyone can use this station, not just certain people who have a monthly plan that includes a home charger.
I installed my own Aerovironment EVSE in my garage. I'm not a licensed electrician but it is so darned simple I just couldn't justify paying somebody else to do it. The hardest part was running the thick 8 gauge cable down the inside of the wall on the other side of the garage. I was able to put the charger right in front of where the Leaf parks. I've seen pictures of the "professional" installs of these and I was less than impressed. In many cases they just poke a hole in the sheetrock next to your breaker box and run a little conduit out the wall. Then you'll have to drag the charging cable 10 feet to the front of your leaf every time you want to plug it in. Of course, I still ended up paying around $1,000 for the AV unit. I suspect the prices of these things will go down in a few years.
adric22 said:
I don't think you should count them out yet. They are obviously investing a lot of money, and they are not going to let them go to waste. I wouldn't be too surprised if in the next year or so they switch things up and try out some new plans. Their major problem right now is that no one knows what an appropriate price for these things are. This is a brand new market. It's not so unlike the internet 15 years ago Remember paying for AOL by the minute? Then Compuserve started promising $300 rebates for new computers to people who signed a contract? Then some genius started NetZero and thought he could give the internet away for free and make up the deficit on bulk? There was a new internet business model every week. It took a while for the market to settle in.
Give it some time. We're the early adopters -that means we are guinea pigs.
Pipcecil
Well-known member
I spoke with an eVgo rep yesterday regarding their current plans, and apparently they are listening a bit to their potential customers. While they still aren't going to offer a plan just to access their public infrastructure :? they are making a change on their home EVSE cost.
It looks as if in their plans they will be adding an option to "buy out" the EVSE after the three year contract is up. The price hasn't been determined but it was mentioned something such as "fair market value" or a similar number. I think this is good think to not continue paying for the EVSE for multiple years. From a business standpoint, I am guessing they will word these to make sure they recouperate the cost of the EVSE and installation. Since all work and the units go through AV, which a standard installation and unit is $2,200, I expect eVgo to at least get the difference from their 36 months ($1,750) to the $2,200, or about $500 dollars at the end of the contract.
While we all know the $2,200 is expensive and overpriced, considering eVgo has a better maintence plan (should anything ever go wrong), the EVSE is AV's advanced wireless one (not the standard one), and they are sucking up a long term payment of the EVSE versus an upfront payment, a small premium is warrented. We shall see what they finally come up with (supposed to be revamped in a couple of days?). Considering how their new terms and conditions are done and what the new pricing is like, we "may" go back to eVgo. My wife was really excited about the charging infrastucture and this was the hardest to drop for her when we decided to not persue eVgo. We shall see if they get in revamped in enough time to reverse our AV order (eVgo rep said its easy) or if its worth it to us.
Anyways, what turned out to be a simple solution for our EVSE got complicated and more complicated. I just hope everything is settled before the car arrives or at least we have an idea whom to stick with!!!
Just out of curiosity, what EVSE (if any) did yall go with? When I tried to contact ECOtality for a quote on a Blink charger, they said they never had anyone in the area order from them so they had to start from scratch with a sales person (info wasn't in the computer). I didn't know if it was the DFW region in general or the way south dallas area.
It looks as if in their plans they will be adding an option to "buy out" the EVSE after the three year contract is up. The price hasn't been determined but it was mentioned something such as "fair market value" or a similar number. I think this is good think to not continue paying for the EVSE for multiple years. From a business standpoint, I am guessing they will word these to make sure they recouperate the cost of the EVSE and installation. Since all work and the units go through AV, which a standard installation and unit is $2,200, I expect eVgo to at least get the difference from their 36 months ($1,750) to the $2,200, or about $500 dollars at the end of the contract.
While we all know the $2,200 is expensive and overpriced, considering eVgo has a better maintence plan (should anything ever go wrong), the EVSE is AV's advanced wireless one (not the standard one), and they are sucking up a long term payment of the EVSE versus an upfront payment, a small premium is warrented. We shall see what they finally come up with (supposed to be revamped in a couple of days?). Considering how their new terms and conditions are done and what the new pricing is like, we "may" go back to eVgo. My wife was really excited about the charging infrastucture and this was the hardest to drop for her when we decided to not persue eVgo. We shall see if they get in revamped in enough time to reverse our AV order (eVgo rep said its easy) or if its worth it to us.
Anyways, what turned out to be a simple solution for our EVSE got complicated and more complicated. I just hope everything is settled before the car arrives or at least we have an idea whom to stick with!!!
Just out of curiosity, what EVSE (if any) did yall go with? When I tried to contact ECOtality for a quote on a Blink charger, they said they never had anyone in the area order from them so they had to start from scratch with a sales person (info wasn't in the computer). I didn't know if it was the DFW region in general or the way south dallas area.
dallasmay said:
I agree with this partially, but they also need to understand their target market. Early adopters are highly educated people in which these current plans don't really offer a whole lot of benefit. To many, it's price does not come close to equaling the benefits. I think $90 a month to charge/lease the equipment is way too high. Then again, a lot of owners have more discretionary income to spend. But I agree with adric... their business plan in it's current form is flawed.
They're obviously investing a lot of money in this. Kudos to them. Someone needs to do it and if they can establish their brand as a leader, they will be well prepared for success in the future. They're taking a huge risk right now and I applaud their efforts to expand the infrastructure in a huge way. Their progress is paramount to the future of EVs right now and I, for our sake, honestly hope they succeed.
I don't see why they don't have a pay per charge plan. That, right now, is the only way I would ever pay for these things. I personally hope that ChargePoint makes a larger impact in DFW. They have two L2 charging stations that I'm aware of in the DFW area (Whole Foods in Fairview and Half Price Books in Dallas)-- I've used both, completely free. This is how you win customers over, especially with the low cost of ownership (big government subsidies), the potential increase in store traffic for those locations that do have free charging stations, and the good press/word of mouth that comes from that.
Pipececil: I have a Blink, but I live in Plano. Who were you talking to? Dave Aasheim is very knowledgeable and helpful and I can provide you his contact information if you wish. I also believe someone posted it on this thread but you'll have to search for it.
Pipcecil
Well-known member
I agree that chargepoint probably has the best method of public charging atm. Even getting their card is only a one time small fee (if you didn't slip by with the free one during Earthday). They also allow those companies to either offer free or charge people for it, so again, a good thing.
I think eVgo's aggressiveness (and price) has to do with their Level 3 CHAdeMO charger infrastructure. Level 3 is by far the most expensive (I think $20-$25k) plus the permits and hard wiring (its a commerical type of installation) makes it even more difficult. They are sinking at least 70 into the DFW area alone within a year, thats alot of Level 3 and alot of money. In addition, they are offering these to companies with little upfront cost (not totally sure, but I think thats how they are doing it), so companies always like that. I think ECOtality and Chargepoint will be slow to roll out. Their current efforts are first focused on the EV project (since they got grants for it), and they still don't have a level 3 in those areas, which gives me little hope they will roll out something here anytime soon.
Yea, I agree the 90 bucks a month can seem steep, but if you look at 50 is the charger (hopefully able to buy out at the end for a reasonable price), 30 is the public charging (a little steep, but in range in comparison of what they are offering) and 10 is paying for all your electricity to charge at home, 90 is not too much. Electricity cost (I estimated - still no leaf...sigh) for myself will be 50ish a month, so it really depends how much you charge at home versus work. 50 for charger + 40 for electricity still is cheaper than if I paid for electricity by myself. Its the charger's rent cost (and not ever going way) thats the breaking deal. The other "features" are more reasonable.
It really all comes down to:
- do you still need a charger (I wish they offered plans without it).
- do you need public charging, especially level 3
- is your electicity cost high (maybe with green mountain), you can still get away with cheap, but the more expensive your electricity is, the better their offer is
- option to charge at work
Level 3 is a little more important to myself and my wife considering we live way south and everyone and their brother lives north. We can make visits to friends/family with level 3 access and my wife can occassionally take the car to work with a level 3 (its my car, but she still loves it and wants to show it off!)
Without level 3, these options are really limited by:
- her work putting in a charger, even a level 1 (fat chance in hell)
- staying at my friends or family's houses 4 or more hours so I can get enough level 1 to get home comfortably (that is if they don't have some irrational fear their electric bill won't double...her extended family probably will think that no matter what we tell them).
As for the Blink charger. I spoke to a rep at first, I guess once they sell one in an area the info gets imputed into their computer, and there was no info for my area (it was showing free!! boy do I wish!), so I ended up talking to david (whom was very nice) and got the info to order one. My wife and I spent loads of time going over what company and which EVSE to get. We had narrowed it down to 4 (because of UL certification) - AV, Coloumb, Leviton, and Blink. I couldn't find if Leviton and Coloumb were even available yet (wife quickly X'd those). So it was between AV and Blink. If we go with eVgo we get the AV one. And I think the AV choice from wife was from asethics and cost (1300 w/ local installation vs 1600 w/ local installation).
Dash: How do you like your Blink EVSE? we ordered an AV one, but still have time to change!!
I think eVgo's aggressiveness (and price) has to do with their Level 3 CHAdeMO charger infrastructure. Level 3 is by far the most expensive (I think $20-$25k) plus the permits and hard wiring (its a commerical type of installation) makes it even more difficult. They are sinking at least 70 into the DFW area alone within a year, thats alot of Level 3 and alot of money. In addition, they are offering these to companies with little upfront cost (not totally sure, but I think thats how they are doing it), so companies always like that. I think ECOtality and Chargepoint will be slow to roll out. Their current efforts are first focused on the EV project (since they got grants for it), and they still don't have a level 3 in those areas, which gives me little hope they will roll out something here anytime soon.
Yea, I agree the 90 bucks a month can seem steep, but if you look at 50 is the charger (hopefully able to buy out at the end for a reasonable price), 30 is the public charging (a little steep, but in range in comparison of what they are offering) and 10 is paying for all your electricity to charge at home, 90 is not too much. Electricity cost (I estimated - still no leaf...sigh) for myself will be 50ish a month, so it really depends how much you charge at home versus work. 50 for charger + 40 for electricity still is cheaper than if I paid for electricity by myself. Its the charger's rent cost (and not ever going way) thats the breaking deal. The other "features" are more reasonable.
It really all comes down to:
- do you still need a charger (I wish they offered plans without it).
- do you need public charging, especially level 3
- is your electicity cost high (maybe with green mountain), you can still get away with cheap, but the more expensive your electricity is, the better their offer is
- option to charge at work
Level 3 is a little more important to myself and my wife considering we live way south and everyone and their brother lives north. We can make visits to friends/family with level 3 access and my wife can occassionally take the car to work with a level 3 (its my car, but she still loves it and wants to show it off!)
Without level 3, these options are really limited by:
- her work putting in a charger, even a level 1 (fat chance in hell)
- staying at my friends or family's houses 4 or more hours so I can get enough level 1 to get home comfortably (that is if they don't have some irrational fear their electric bill won't double...her extended family probably will think that no matter what we tell them).
As for the Blink charger. I spoke to a rep at first, I guess once they sell one in an area the info gets imputed into their computer, and there was no info for my area (it was showing free!! boy do I wish!), so I ended up talking to david (whom was very nice) and got the info to order one. My wife and I spent loads of time going over what company and which EVSE to get. We had narrowed it down to 4 (because of UL certification) - AV, Coloumb, Leviton, and Blink. I couldn't find if Leviton and Coloumb were even available yet (wife quickly X'd those). So it was between AV and Blink. If we go with eVgo we get the AV one. And I think the AV choice from wife was from asethics and cost (1300 w/ local installation vs 1600 w/ local installation).
Dash: How do you like your Blink EVSE? we ordered an AV one, but still have time to change!!
jlaw99
Well-known member
fyi - A friend saw a white Leaf in the wild here in San Antonio yesterday. I haven't heard from this person here on MNL!! If you are out there, tell us about your leaf!!
Pipcecil
Well-known member
Update update on the eVgo situation. It is official, eVgo has changed the way they handle the ownership of the EVSE and after the 3 year contract you can have multiple options:
1) Continue on current plan - we have determined is a pretty bad idea as the price of the EVSE over the life of the vehicle (10 years) is $6,000
2) Request a new plan with current charger - no current info on these plans. Will there be a reduced rate for those that have "paid" on the EVSE for 3 years?
3) Request a new plan with new charger - assuming its probably going to be the same monthly rate or more. I don't know what can happen for an EVSE that is so awesome that I want an upgrade in 3 years...but there is no telling
4) Request to purchase current charger at fair market value and discontinue eVgo service - who knows that FMV will be? Consideration for current payment into the EVSE? Can't "own" and keep service
5) Terminate eVgo contract and EVSE is removed from home.
While this may not be a perfect solution it does leave a few options after the 3 years are up. Cost wise, my wife and I cruched the numbers and figured out that with eVgo, we have access to an existing DC charger that would allow her to take the car to work. On her school nights, the charger is very close by. Considering she travels over twice as much as I do and her car is only low 20's mpg that uses premium gas, we can make up almost the full price of the mobile plan just in gas savings (not to mention additional maintence). So this solution will work for us. I am hoping that other companies start dropping DC chargers around giving competition to eVgo to give more competitve plans with more flex. So for all you Texas people out there, we are going to take the plung and the gamble!!! I will keep dropping reports on changes or things that come up.
For all you new Texas Leaf register people, I thought I would give a complete comparison on chargers and installation with cost and benefits:
Nissan AeroVironment + Installation: Standard total cost is $2,200 (a $100 home assessment is required). Both the unit and installation are covered for 3 years and repairs are done onsite. This is the "official" offical charger and installation. EVSE is only a standard one, no wireless communication, etc. EVSE is hardwired into breaker box. Comes with a 30% tax credit on unit and installation (~$660)
Nissan AeroVironment + local installation: Unit cost is $1,000. My local electrictian quoted $300 installation. Unit is covered for 3 years maitenence, but for unit repair it must be mailed to AV (no local repair). EVSE is basic, no wireless, tracking, etc. Tax credit of ~$390.
ECOtality Blink Charger + local "installation": Unit cost is $1,500. EVSE plugs into wall via a 220 "Dryer" socket outlet. Installation cost for the addition of the socket in garage was quoted at $300. Unit is covered warranty for 1 year. EVSE is full wireless and utility link-up with usage data, utility smart grid, etc. Tax credit of ~$540.
Coulumb & Leviton EVSE: The only other UL certified home EVSEs (Leviton has other chargers that are not UL certified). At the time of my research both were unavailable for order. This could change. I ignored all other EVSEs that were not UL certified.
eVgo: uses AV's charger (offical Nissan charger). Version is the full wireless and utility link-up, smart grid, etc. (similar to Blink). Plans are a per month pay and start off as $50 for EVSE only, $80 for EVSE and access to public chargers (level 2 and level 3 DC quick chargers), $90 for EVSE, public EVSE, and electricity paid to charge vehicle. Home assessment is free. No tax credit is available with eVgo. $90 dollar plan is only compatible if you use Reliant, TXU, Green Mountain Energy, and Direct Energy (HILCO co-op is currently in the works). Electricity payment is only good during "off-peak" hours defined as 8pm-Noon (next day) and all weekend. EVSE is set to default charge only during these times (can manually override it via web/on unit). Plans including the public charging network ($80 and $90) will not be charged the monthly part of their bill ($30) until 70 chargers have been installed (estimated ~August 2011), so the plans would be $50 and $60 respectively. Warranty and maintence of device and installation is for life (i.e. you are paying, you get warrant and maintenence) on site. As stated above, after the three year contract is up, there are options.
As for the eVgo plans, for 36 months, the EVSE is paid @$1,750 the public infrastructure @$1,080 and the electricity @$360. It really depends how much your electricity cost and your usage (especially if you have access to a charger at work) and how much you would use the public charging system. At a 2/3 battery usage per day with some weekend driving, my cost for electricity (on HILCO w/ fees, etc.) turned out to be ~$50 per month (all estimated, no car yet )
So there you go with options. I tried my best to lay out cost of everything. This is to help the new people make as much of an informed decision. Each option carries benefits and negatives, so its up to you what way you want to go.
1) Continue on current plan - we have determined is a pretty bad idea as the price of the EVSE over the life of the vehicle (10 years) is $6,000
2) Request a new plan with current charger - no current info on these plans. Will there be a reduced rate for those that have "paid" on the EVSE for 3 years?
3) Request a new plan with new charger - assuming its probably going to be the same monthly rate or more. I don't know what can happen for an EVSE that is so awesome that I want an upgrade in 3 years...but there is no telling
4) Request to purchase current charger at fair market value and discontinue eVgo service - who knows that FMV will be? Consideration for current payment into the EVSE? Can't "own" and keep service
5) Terminate eVgo contract and EVSE is removed from home.
While this may not be a perfect solution it does leave a few options after the 3 years are up. Cost wise, my wife and I cruched the numbers and figured out that with eVgo, we have access to an existing DC charger that would allow her to take the car to work. On her school nights, the charger is very close by. Considering she travels over twice as much as I do and her car is only low 20's mpg that uses premium gas, we can make up almost the full price of the mobile plan just in gas savings (not to mention additional maintence). So this solution will work for us. I am hoping that other companies start dropping DC chargers around giving competition to eVgo to give more competitve plans with more flex. So for all you Texas people out there, we are going to take the plung and the gamble!!! I will keep dropping reports on changes or things that come up.
For all you new Texas Leaf register people, I thought I would give a complete comparison on chargers and installation with cost and benefits:
Nissan AeroVironment + Installation: Standard total cost is $2,200 (a $100 home assessment is required). Both the unit and installation are covered for 3 years and repairs are done onsite. This is the "official" offical charger and installation. EVSE is only a standard one, no wireless communication, etc. EVSE is hardwired into breaker box. Comes with a 30% tax credit on unit and installation (~$660)
Nissan AeroVironment + local installation: Unit cost is $1,000. My local electrictian quoted $300 installation. Unit is covered for 3 years maitenence, but for unit repair it must be mailed to AV (no local repair). EVSE is basic, no wireless, tracking, etc. Tax credit of ~$390.
ECOtality Blink Charger + local "installation": Unit cost is $1,500. EVSE plugs into wall via a 220 "Dryer" socket outlet. Installation cost for the addition of the socket in garage was quoted at $300. Unit is covered warranty for 1 year. EVSE is full wireless and utility link-up with usage data, utility smart grid, etc. Tax credit of ~$540.
Coulumb & Leviton EVSE: The only other UL certified home EVSEs (Leviton has other chargers that are not UL certified). At the time of my research both were unavailable for order. This could change. I ignored all other EVSEs that were not UL certified.
eVgo: uses AV's charger (offical Nissan charger). Version is the full wireless and utility link-up, smart grid, etc. (similar to Blink). Plans are a per month pay and start off as $50 for EVSE only, $80 for EVSE and access to public chargers (level 2 and level 3 DC quick chargers), $90 for EVSE, public EVSE, and electricity paid to charge vehicle. Home assessment is free. No tax credit is available with eVgo. $90 dollar plan is only compatible if you use Reliant, TXU, Green Mountain Energy, and Direct Energy (HILCO co-op is currently in the works). Electricity payment is only good during "off-peak" hours defined as 8pm-Noon (next day) and all weekend. EVSE is set to default charge only during these times (can manually override it via web/on unit). Plans including the public charging network ($80 and $90) will not be charged the monthly part of their bill ($30) until 70 chargers have been installed (estimated ~August 2011), so the plans would be $50 and $60 respectively. Warranty and maintence of device and installation is for life (i.e. you are paying, you get warrant and maintenence) on site. As stated above, after the three year contract is up, there are options.
As for the eVgo plans, for 36 months, the EVSE is paid @$1,750 the public infrastructure @$1,080 and the electricity @$360. It really depends how much your electricity cost and your usage (especially if you have access to a charger at work) and how much you would use the public charging system. At a 2/3 battery usage per day with some weekend driving, my cost for electricity (on HILCO w/ fees, etc.) turned out to be ~$50 per month (all estimated, no car yet
)So there you go with options. I tried my best to lay out cost of everything. This is to help the new people make as much of an informed decision. Each option carries benefits and negatives, so its up to you what way you want to go.
mouse
New member
I just got quoted 35,600 for SL from a dealer in Austin.
SL with mud guards, mats, and cargo net.
Sorry to ask, but is there a running log of what the quotes Austin/TX have been able to get?
Thanks.
SL with mud guards, mats, and cargo net.
Sorry to ask, but is there a running log of what the quotes Austin/TX have been able to get?
Thanks.
1932highboy
Well-known member
I bought a orphan Leaf in Austin last Thursday. I am having it shipped to Wichita Falls, Texas soon. Black SL.
AmarilloLeaf
Well-known member
1932highboy said:
Congratulations on snagging one! You'll love it.
I suspect you are the first in Wichita Falls.
AmarilloLeaf
Well-known member
mouse said:
I am assuming this is for an order, not an orphan? Is it more than MRSP ?
You can call Nissan Customer service to enlarge the area that you get quotes from, or you can change to a different Texas address for ordering purposes. That way you could shop the San Antonio, Dallas, or Houston dealers if your Austin dealer is asking more than MRSP.
If you haven't done so already, call the dealer rather than doing it over the email. The email process causes it to take forever, and you are locked into that dealer for 24 hours. Make your deal on the phone, then place the order with Nissan online at the agreed price. They should be able to accept it promptly and then you'll be done.
OTOH, if this is an orphan, they will try to get what the market will bear.
philaphonic
Well-known member
Pipcecil said:
Great summary of the situation -- thanks, it really does help people. One minor thing, I'm pretty sure Schneider Electric also has a UL listed EVSE unit, though it may be in the same boat as the Leviton and Coulomb ones.
Phil in Houston
Pipcecil
Well-known member
For us Texas people, since I work in goverment (technically) I usually get the latest info on transportation laws coming out of Austin. As it applies to the Leaf, there are two proposed laws to follow that will be quite benefical to us:
HB 3310 - A potential $4,000 rebate on the purchase of a plug-in vehicle (a leaf will get the full amount). This bill is currently on the schedule for House floor for vote.
HB 3308 - Plug in electric vehicles (including the leaf) will get a free single occupancy ride in all HOV lanes in Texas. This bill passed the House and is on its way to the Senate.
As a small note, both of these, if passed, become active September 1, 2011. The HOV use would require acquisiton of a sticker that would be placed on your back windshield to denote your qualification as a SOV user in an HOV lane (easier for enforcement I suppose). As for the credit, it would work as any rebate. Proof of purchase or something like that and the state would send you a check afterwards. The only problem with this one (if it becomes law) is start date of September 1, meaning all vehicle purchases before this date would NOT get the rebate check. This would exclude all the early adpoters in the first round of reservations and deliveries, but could apply to the second round of people; but this could be changed as its filtered through the House and Senate (as well as the rebate amount!).
Hopefully both of these pass! I know I have been jeleous of the California people and thier 5k rebate as well as the Orgeon/Washington people with the no-taxes on thiers. Finally, Texas might get some more incentive!
HB 3310 - A potential $4,000 rebate on the purchase of a plug-in vehicle (a leaf will get the full amount). This bill is currently on the schedule for House floor for vote.
HB 3308 - Plug in electric vehicles (including the leaf) will get a free single occupancy ride in all HOV lanes in Texas. This bill passed the House and is on its way to the Senate.
As a small note, both of these, if passed, become active September 1, 2011. The HOV use would require acquisiton of a sticker that would be placed on your back windshield to denote your qualification as a SOV user in an HOV lane (easier for enforcement I suppose). As for the credit, it would work as any rebate. Proof of purchase or something like that and the state would send you a check afterwards. The only problem with this one (if it becomes law) is start date of September 1, meaning all vehicle purchases before this date would NOT get the rebate check. This would exclude all the early adpoters in the first round of reservations and deliveries, but could apply to the second round of people; but this could be changed as its filtered through the House and Senate (as well as the rebate amount!).
Hopefully both of these pass! I know I have been jeleous of the California people and thier 5k rebate as well as the Orgeon/Washington people with the no-taxes on thiers. Finally, Texas might get some more incentive!
philaphonic
Well-known member
I found this very interesting 3 page summary on HB 3310, worth the 2 minutes it takes to read, especially the "Other Opponents Say" section.Pipcecil said:
http://www.hro.house.state.tx.us/pdf/ba82R/HB3310.PDF
Phil
Pipcecil
Well-known member
very interesting read, I guess the original 4k was reduced (or I read the original bill wrong...which is totally plausible). Interesting to see some "nays" logic is totally false. I absolutely hate when people explain that the leaf won't make air pollution better or produce more. Its simple physics and people forgetting to balance the "whole picture" (you don't know how many times I have been told that I am not looking at the whole picture and the leaf is worse).
1. The bigger the "engine" the more efficent it is (especially when it comes to combustion), a weed wacker is worse than a car. Car's engine is about 20% effiecent. Coal plant? about 90% Despite coal being worse, the efficiency outweights its extra pollutants
2. People always complain that the batteries are env unfriendly to make (I give that point to them) and coal is dirty, yadda. But the forget the fact of drilling for oil, shipping the oil, refining the oil (really bad stuff), shipping by train, then shipping by truck at the end (which causes more traffic = more congestion and more pollutants & semis cause more road damage = more money for repairs [i.e. making more cement and tar]). It always amazes me people with ICE cars completely forget about the process. They compare an EV whole process to just their driving pollutants. I think you can tell I do alot of indirect and cumulative effects for transportation systems
As for the TERP money, it is mostly used for retrofit vehicles and other programs. Up in the DFW area, its used alot on bus conversions to CNG, taxi cab conversions, idling retrofits, etc. Most of it is focused on buisness side and very little (if any) is focused on non-commerical improvements. Even the Air Check Texas program (replace old cars or ones that fail emissions) is funded seperately and not by TERP. I think this is probably the most logical complaint. As for "bang for your buck" it could end up being more efficent to do other programs, but its really difficult to tell, especially since air quality is such a regional thing, isolating one improvement is extremely difficult (we try but the numbers aren't with perfect confidence, there is alot of assumptions).
Either way, it woudl be nice to have a credit back. Texas doesn't have one and most of the states that have early rollout with the Leaf or i-MiEV have some benefit/credit into the system.
1. The bigger the "engine" the more efficent it is (especially when it comes to combustion), a weed wacker is worse than a car. Car's engine is about 20% effiecent. Coal plant? about 90% Despite coal being worse, the efficiency outweights its extra pollutants
2. People always complain that the batteries are env unfriendly to make (I give that point to them) and coal is dirty, yadda. But the forget the fact of drilling for oil, shipping the oil, refining the oil (really bad stuff), shipping by train, then shipping by truck at the end (which causes more traffic = more congestion and more pollutants & semis cause more road damage = more money for repairs [i.e. making more cement and tar]). It always amazes me people with ICE cars completely forget about the process. They compare an EV whole process to just their driving pollutants. I think you can tell I do alot of indirect and cumulative effects for transportation systems
As for the TERP money, it is mostly used for retrofit vehicles and other programs. Up in the DFW area, its used alot on bus conversions to CNG, taxi cab conversions, idling retrofits, etc. Most of it is focused on buisness side and very little (if any) is focused on non-commerical improvements. Even the Air Check Texas program (replace old cars or ones that fail emissions) is funded seperately and not by TERP. I think this is probably the most logical complaint. As for "bang for your buck" it could end up being more efficent to do other programs, but its really difficult to tell, especially since air quality is such a regional thing, isolating one improvement is extremely difficult (we try but the numbers aren't with perfect confidence, there is alot of assumptions).
Either way, it woudl be nice to have a credit back. Texas doesn't have one and most of the states that have early rollout with the Leaf or i-MiEV have some benefit/credit into the system.
adric22
Well-known member
I hate to admit this.. but I'm not sure these EV incentives are really worthwhile. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm very happy that I got the federal credit for my leaf. However, I would have bought the car one way or the other. I suspect most of the early adopters probably would. I suspect Nissan still wouldn't be able to produce enough cars to fill demand even if there were no credits. Sure, many people who bought or are trying to buy may be excluded because of the higher price. But overall, the number produced and sold would remain the same.
The way I see it, we are being rewarded for the fact that there is no charging infrastructure and so we have to deal with more hardships than the EV drivers of the future.
The way I see it, we are being rewarded for the fact that there is no charging infrastructure and so we have to deal with more hardships than the EV drivers of the future.
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