LEAFer's LEAF on GIDs

[DaveinOlyWA]

one thing that i have noticed is well, one of a few things

1) GID count not always best measure of battery degradation

2) total capacity is highly dependent on temps. so any temp below what? 70º or so means less capacity which is probably one reason why you are seeing less charge into the batteries from the wall

 

[LEAFer]

one thing that i have noticed is well, one of a few things

1) GID count not always best measure of battery degradation

2) total capacity is highly dependent on temps. so any temp below what? 70º or so means less capacity which is probably one reason why you are seeing less charge into the batteries from the wall

Agree with 1) above

But on 2) .... sorry, nice try See Temp profiles below (from WeatherSpark.com), which are the two October Turtle/Dead-to-100% runs:

Oct 13: Plugged in (warm battery) TURTLE at 3:51pm (6 TBs); full before 9:46pm. 20.722 kWh.
Oct 25: Plugged in (warm battery) DEAD at approx 12:25pm (5 TBs); full by about 6:15pm. 21.049 kWh.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

then we have question of ambient temps verses battery temps. another issue that i have questions about. we really need a way to monitor that. i think it would answer a lot of questions

 

[LEAFer]

Tuesdays & Thursdays we charge to 80% by 7am, then later, closer to departure, override for 100%. Those last two 80% charges once again ended up with only 9 bars. Contrast that to the results in the OP. Overnight temps have been mild, low 50s/high 40s; 5TBs at 08:00. Car is parked outside.

 

[LEAFer]

The last three weeks have seen mostly 10 bar 80% charges with a few 9 bars sprinkled in. Due to some "life changes" we now charge to 80% using EndTimeOnly=07:00 everyday. And manually charge to 100% after 10am when needed.

Interestingly ... now with colder temps, the "buffer time" between actual completion and 7am EndTime has shot up.

From around 6-630am completion in November to the last two sessions 12/21 & 12/22 (both at 9 bars and 4 TBs): 4:16am and 3:51am ! :shock:

(Don't have much early December data due to CW outages.)

 

[LEAFer]

Well ... I am on gids again

Borrowed a Gid meter at the Sacramento Leaf Meetup yesterday. The LEAF had it's second birthday yesterday (!) and was in for service. Charged a little more than half way at the dealer, drove home in 60F weather, and then parked and charging to 100% outside at home. Charge completed by 20:36 with temps now in the mid 40F. At 10pm I took a reading: 245 gids, 393.5V, 40F, 76 GOM, 5TB, 30,391 miles.

Below is the ramp-down as shown by chargepoint network (there's an approx 5 minute time drift between it and real-time).

17:23 0kW
17:25 3.70kW
17:28 3.69kW (then 3.68kW ... until ...)
20:08 3.68kW
20:13 3.03kW
20:18 2.16kW
20:23 1.72kW
20:28 1.43kW
20:33 1.17kW
20:38 1.27kW
20:43 0kW

At 08:00 this morning with 29F on the eye-brow: 244 gids 393.0V. 4TB. 76GOM.

Sometime this week I will be doing a range test. Hopefully with warmer temps for better consistency. Still have all 12 capacity bars.

However CW has not received data since Dec 28. On 1/11 I re-logged into CW in the car. No good. On 1/14 I pulled the fuse. No good. Yesterday (1/19) at service I complained. This morning CW shows trip data starting Jan 14 thru Jan 16, but Dec 29-Jan13 data is missing.

 

[Stoaty]

At 10pm I took a reading: 245 gids, 393.5V, 40F, 76 GOM, 5TB, 30,391 miles.

Assuming 4 miles per Kwh and no days parking in the sun, the battery aging model predicts 246 Gids on a full charge for you. Right on the money.

 

[LEAFer]

At 10pm I took a reading: 245 gids, 393.5V, 40F, 76 GOM, 5TB, 30,391 miles.

Assuming 4 miles per Kwh and no days parking in the sun, the battery aging model predicts 246 Gids on a full charge for you. Right on the money.

Ok ... but once again something strange is going on. ( And, of course, the car is parked in the sun during the summer. )

What's strange is that the 245 gid count has now apparently, finally (?), caught up with the previous range test. That is, whereas the gid count previously indicated only a 9%- loss, the range test indicated 13%+. Unfortunately range since the November testing seems to have dropped again. Yes, I know, denser air, colder temps, etc. but it still seems to have dropped in the past 2 months. We'll see after this week's additional testing. Could be a weak module or two.

 

[LEAFer]

Well ... it's been a while ... time moves on and we now have Turbo3's LBM (Leaf Battery Monitor; THANKS!, Turbo3 !).

Many separate threads discussing the ELM327 and data gathered. Rather than post all this data there, I figured its best place is here, almost (but not quite) like a blog related to this particular LEAF.

I did post (here & here) about our loss of the 12th capacity bar. And because that was very recent and we now have the re-program P3227 recall ...

In anticipation of Monday's re-program (P3227), planned on doing a Turtle-Run on Father's Day 2013.

Started with 80%. Went on a shopping tour. Dropped the wife off at home (smart!), then went about my business for another 6-7 miles.

An indicator which I considered reliable as recently as October 2012 didn't work for me today. May have something to do with the weakened battery; or maybe I just trusted the LBM (Leaf Battery Monitor) too much. On prior Turtle runs I could count on seeing the double-power circles slowly vanish (and some come back during regen) to singles, and if I slowed to 15mph I had lots of reserve to make it home with 1-2 miles to spare before Turtle came on. Not today. Almost all power circles disappeared suddenly and Turtle ensued ! I whipped the car around with a 180 without even touching the brakes, preserving momentum.

Shutdown happened 100 feet before my final turn-off onto a dead-end private road serving a small community. I had enough momentum to make most of a very slight incline. Called my son and pushed it home 1/4 mile.

Results below. Data for re-charging in a separate post, as well as the data after the reprogram.

 

[LEAFer]

I am at the dealer now ... here's the overnight charging data (three separate sessions including the initial 70 minutes to get "un-dead", the session to get to 80% in cooler temps, ending at 06:07am, and the final session to get to 100%).

 

[LEAFer]

Returned home from the dealer. 12V Battery Health check showed no issue (load test for cold cranking amps). P3227 re-program done. Car wash.

 

[nogajim]

So your capacity in Ahr hardly changed at all after the reprogram. Not what I was guessing.

 

[LEAFer]

So your capacity in Ahr hardly changed at all after the reprogram. Not what I was guessing.

Not so fast ! Interestingly, by the time the wife returned from the gym with 4 blinking miles on the GOM, CAP was at 89.15% !!! :shock: That's when I started my follow-up Turtle run. I will report the results tomorrow mid-morning after charging to 80% & 100%, repeating yesterday's Turtle run from before the P3227.

P.S.: Despite the jump to 89.15% the 12th CB did not come back (not yet ?)

 

[DaveEV]

P.S.: Despite the jump to 89.15% the 12th CB did not come back (not yet ?)

I bet it comes back after you charge it back up... What's the Ah reading now - around 59? Best to stick with Ah readings instead of CAP% since the CAP% can be different if you configure in a different value for 100%.

 

[LEAFer]

 

[DaveEV]

Well, the data doesn't point to any magical increases in total from-the-wall recharge gains, so logically any improvement in range from the reflash is from simply moving the LBW and or VLBW points up. At Turtle/Shutdown, 80% and 100% the cell-pair voltages appear to be nearly identical.

It's too bad you don't have data from either of those two data points before/after the reflash - I think that would identify where the capacity is hidden.

 

[LEAFer]

Yeah ... sorry, I did not take careful data while trying to reach Turtle. Maybe some one else could ?

I do remember that LBW came on at 58 'Gids during the second Turtle run, don't remember VLB. Today (just a regular long trip) LBW came on at 63 'Gids.

And something else happened today. See data sheet below. As I have time I'll try to track and update, but today in particular I noticed SOC increased after a remote Climate Control session, and AGAIN while waiting in the car (power on, radio on, HVAC off) for the wife unit ...

 

[LEAFer]

As time allows I will use this post on a continuous basis with updates.

"Charge 80%" data is based on an EndTimer of 7am, but the actual data may not be taken until a little later in the day, with the car plugged in usually until the time the data was actually recorded.

Erratum: 6/22 Odo Reading was 1,000 too high on 6/22 edit of above image.
Comment on 6/26/13: Was 79.6% SOC but screenshots were lost and by 2nd attempt LEAF had been "ON" for a while.
Comment on 6/27/13: Car was not driven prior day; parked in garage all day.
Comment on 6/28/13: Prior day was near 100F high. Ended 6/27 with 1 FuelBar; 80% charge parked outside completed at 05:58am (7am EndTimer), overnight low around 68F.
Comment on 7/16/13 13:49: First time Ahr increased. SOH still lower than before. Also, the 6th TB came on after driving 34 miles and about 30 seconds before parking at home.

GENERAL COMMENT: Pre-P3227 was 54.85Ahr on 6/17/2013 with Odo 34,523.
On 7/24/2013 AHr dropped below Pre-P3227 reprogramming (after 37 days, 932 miles).
On 8/12/2013 the new version (v026m2) seemed to "raise" the % Capacity for no particular reason, despite no adjustments taken in "Settings".
On 8/18/2013 the AHr capacity did not "drop" for the first time despite a long drive the day before.

 

[LEAFer]

After 37 days and 932 miles driven ... today (7/24/2013) the reported AHr dropped below the Pre-P3227 reprogramming level. Naturally, we can't expect a "real" zero loss over those 37 days, thus it's anyone's guess when the actual pre- and post-P3227 AHr curves would "merge". But in any case ... I will significantly reduce the reporting frequency of the above data ... and make only occasional updates from here on out.

 

[IraqiInvaderGnr]

I've got a 13 leaf and I noticed that your Ahr value decreases about every day but mine hasn't changed since I started tracking the Ahr on my leaf. Why is that?