Leaf vs Volt - The Final SHOWDOWN!

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When I raced my brother-in-laws GTI I still beat him at the 30 foot mark easily and it probably lasted until may be 100+ mark (maybe 200 ft mark - again its a guess since these places weren't measured). Thats your quick accceleration off the line you see tear out other gas cars at stop lights.

Secondly, driver input can weigh in your favor as well. If its standard and the person is not used to shifting fast (or well) they can easily eat up time as your car zips along.

Any electric will beat almost any ICE off the line, its just how long until said ICE can catch up to you. The more sporty ones will catch you faster than the Camry next to you.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
The thing I still don't understand about all these performance numbers is my Leaf is out accelerating all the cars around me without even trying, including expensive performance cars. They must all be really, really not trying.

I find this too. I believe it highlights the difference in acceleration potential, and how people are comfortable to use it in real life. With no noise, excessive fuel consumption, or wear on the engine or transmission, I have no problem with (near-)foot-on-the-floor accelerations from every suitable red light or at the end of freeway on-ramps when the traffic-flow lights are active. I would NEVER do that in my ICE.
Many times I glance in my rear-view mirror, especially when the light was on an uphill (Pershing Dr, San Diego), and it looks like the other vehicles are less than half the distance from the light, just about changing from 2nd into 3rd.


Shaun.
ps I'm not expecting to break any records on front tire longevity
 
Well, the S10 I beat the entire way (mwhaha). The GTI being raced by my brother-in-law was already slightly tuned (i.e. better than stock) and he has a good racing ability (he is a car guy), so I pretty much was coming up against an above-average standard car race (like at a stop light). Using extrapolation, it seems he caught up to me slightly before the 330 foot maker. The first MPH at the track was done at 1/8 mile, which i hit at 63 compared to his 71 (yea his car is fast!). Acceleration is definetely not linear in the Leaf, so I couldn't really guess at the speed at the 330 foot line, but I bet it was probably close to 35-40 MPH since the bottom of the curve is sharper for MPH on the Leaf..but, its only a guess on the MPH.
 
If all vehicles at a light were EVs would we get more through the intersection and reduce traffic?
Of course one ICE in front could really crimp the style.

It always gets me when I am 20 cars back at a light how long it takes the group to actually get moving.
 
Agreed. The Leaf (or Volt) is anything but "fast"; the numbers bear that out. Any reasonably good driver in any decent ICE other than an econobox or hybrid should be able to easily beat it under any circumstances...

gbshaun said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
The thing I still don't understand about all these performance numbers is my Leaf is out accelerating all the cars around me without even trying, including expensive performance cars. They must all be really, really not trying.
I find this too. I believe it highlights the difference in acceleration potential, and how people are comfortable to use it in real life.
 
TonyWilliams said:
TomT said:
Ahh, life in the slow lane... Reminds me of the diesels days of long ago... :lol:


1997 General Motors EV1   0-60 mph 7.6   Quarter mile 16.0

2008 Tesla Roadster (Electric Sports Car)   0-60 mph 4.6   Quarter mile 13.4

2011 Bugatti Veyron 16.4 Super Sport   0-60 mph 2.4   Quarter Mile 9.6

TEN SLOWEST CARS:

68 Fiat 850 Idromatic   0-60 mph 25.4   Quarter mile 23.0
73 VW Super Beetle Convertible   0-60 mph 23.7   Quarter mile 22.2
74 Datsun B210 Coupe   0-60 mph 22.5   Quarter mile 24.5
79 Volkswagen Rabbit (Diesel)   0-60 mph 21.2   Quarter mile 21.9
81 Cadillac Seville (Diesel)   0-60 mph 20.9
80 Audi 5000S Diesel   0-60 mph 20.3   Quarter mile 21.6
81 Audi 5000S Diesel   0-60 mph 20.4
68 Fiat 850 Spider   0-60 mph 19.9   Quarter mile 21.4
64 Austin-Healey 3000 MK II   0-60 mph 19.8
72 Fiat Wagon   0-60 mph 19.0   Quarter mile 21.2

I note the absence of the '76 Peugeot 504 diesel, which IIRR had a 0-60 time of 28.1 seconds. I can personally vouch for the fact that it could regularly be outdragged from stoplights by loaded semis. And ISTR that the Mercedes 240D? a year or two later did 0-60 in something like 30.5s.

[Added] A big Healey taking 19.8 seconds??!! Something seems very wrong.

[Added still later]

"A 3000 Mark II BT7 with hardtop and overdrive tested by the British magazine The Motor in 1961 had a top speed of 112.9 mph (181.7 km/h) and could accelerate from 0–60 mph (97 km/h) in 10.9 seconds. A fuel consumption of 23.5 miles per imperial gallon (12.0 L/100 km; 19.6 mpg-US) was recorded. The test car cost £1362 including taxes.[3]"
 
TomT said:
Ahh, life in the slow lane... Reminds me of the diesels days of long ago... :lol:

TonyWilliams said:
http://www.zeroto60times.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
2011 Toyota Prius Hybrid   0-60 mph 9.7    Quarter Mile 17.1
2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In Hybrid    0-60 mph 10.9    Quarter Mile 18.5
2012 Toyota Prius V   0-60 mph 10.2   Quarter Mile 17.8

Yup, diesels have come a long way. My 2011 335d is putting down mid 4 second 0-60 times and 12.9 qtr mile times.
Note: This run is launching in 2nd gear! The thing puts out close to 500lbs tq, and still can get 45mpg on the HWY.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix2tbcc9p9o[/youtube]

A note on drag racing. I have been to the strip hundreds of times. My 335i (Petrol) held the 1/4 mile record for over a year. 11.1 seconds at 130mph trap speeds. As far a car testing goes..you throw the R/T (reaction time) out the window. That is only important if you are concerned with who crosses the finish line first (regardless of who left the line first "reaction time".) But to find out which car has more average power through the qtr mile, you look at the trap speed. That is the most important number. Even if you have a shoddy 60' time, and mediocre 1/4 mile time, that poor launch has a relatively minimal effect on your trap speed at the end of the qtr mile, where 60' flashes by in a fraction of a second with little mph gain. So for people testing their cars, they could care less who crosses the finish line first, it is all about trap speed, and to some extent ET. However ET is more dependent on your launch and traction. Every .10 sec off your 60' time usually equates to almost .20 off your 1/4 mile time.

So trap speeds in a car weighing around 3500lbs and trapping in the 100mph range are affected by the following relationship roughly:

+10 hp = 1mph gain in the 1/4 mile, .10 sec quicker.
-100lbs weight reduction=1mph gain in the qtr mile, .10 sec quicker

So basically, if a car is consistently trapping 4mph faster than your car, you will either need to gain 40hp, or lose 400lbs.

If you look at my other youtube videos, you can see all kinds of BMW testing videos I made, including 3 second 0-60 runs.

You will also notice how eerily close my GPS test data is to the OPs time slip...17.4 at a touch under 78mph
(within .06 sec, .08mph of his first run!) It would be hard to intentionally get 2 runs that close!

cimg5121.jpg



The LEAF is suprisingly quick around town because the throttle response is instant, and the torque leads to effortless acceleration. So unless the ICE is trying harder at higher RPMs, the LEAF is generally quicker than most cars to about 30mph.
 
My 0-20mph (that's all I ever race usually) is not touchable. Not even a ninja motorcycle. I rolled the window down and said let's go. We both left exactly on the green and I had him for just a few feet but in my book that's winning off the line. 0-20. Most cars I can smoke 0-40 then I hit the cruise control at 40 and watch them fly by doing 70. Funny how they think they won.
 
TonyWilliams said:
TomT said:
Ahh, life in the slow lane... Reminds me of the diesels days of long ago... :lol:

TEN SLOWEST CARS:

68 Fiat 850 Idromatic   0-60 mph 25.4   Quarter mile 23.0
73 VW Super Beetle Convertible   0-60 mph 23.7   Quarter mile 22.2
74 Datsun B210 Coupe   0-60 mph 22.5   Quarter mile 24.5
79 Volkswagen Rabbit (Diesel)   0-60 mph 21.2   Quarter mile 21.9
81 Cadillac Seville (Diesel)   0-60 mph 20.9
80 Audi 5000S Diesel   0-60 mph 20.3   Quarter mile 21.6
81 Audi 5000S Diesel   0-60 mph 20.4
68 Fiat 850 Spider   0-60 mph 19.9   Quarter mile 21.4
64 Austin-Healey 3000 MK II   0-60 mph 19.8
72 Fiat Wagon   0-60 mph 19.0   Quarter mile 21.2

Where is the 1970 subaru 360? I would think that could beat the size of any of the times listed above.

Also the 1982 diesel suburban would also fit in the above list I think.
 
vin944 said:
Most cars I can smoke 0-40 then I hit the cruise control at 40 and watch them fly by doing 70. Funny how they think they won.

+1! I haven't lost yet 0-40 and my claim to fame was a new Nissan 'Z'. My reaction times are really good so I'm sure that helps beat everyone too.
 
Yeah, because 0 to 40 in the Leaf is actually quite slow and the data shows that most any non-econobox car can beat it...


LEAFfan said:
+1! I haven't lost yet 0-40 and my claim to fame was a new Nissan 'Z'. My reaction times are really good so I'm sure that helps beat everyone too.
 
TomT said:
Yeah, because 0 to 40 in the Leaf is actually quite slow and the data shows that most any non-econobox car can beat it...

But not a Volt apparently. That's due to the torque being limited up to around 30MPH. I think that will change a bit in the ELR.
 
TomT said:
Yeah, because 0 to 40 in the Leaf is actually quite slow and the data shows that most any non-econobox car can beat it...


LEAFfan said:
+1! I haven't lost yet 0-40 and my claim to fame was a new Nissan 'Z'. My reaction times are really good so I'm sure that helps beat everyone too.

Maybe it's 0-30MPH and not 40, but in any case the Leaf - even my 2013 - is far from "quite slow" off the line and for several seconds afterwards.
 
The Leaf is pretty good to 20 but after that it falls off quickly. Look at the published specs for a number of cars and you can see that many of them can beat it handily...

LeftieBiker said:
Maybe it's 0-30MPH and not 40, but in any case the Leaf - even my 2013 - is far from "quite slow" off the line and for several seconds afterwards.
 
TomT said:
The Leaf is pretty good to 20 but after that it falls off quickly. Look at the published specs for a number of cars and you can see that many of them can beat it handily...

LeftieBiker said:
Maybe it's 0-30MPH and not 40, but in any case the Leaf - even my 2013 - is far from "quite slow" off the line and for several seconds afterwards.

I checked it out, and the car is quite impressive to 40. There are always going to be faster cars out there, so for a "Tree Hugger Special" the Leaf is quite the little sports car - especially with 40psi in the tires. I consider the neck-snapping acceleration off the line to be an unexpected bonus. Our Prius is also impressive in Power mode, but I suspect that few people use it (I don't), because we imagine we see the fuel gauge dropping, and the clouds of CO and CO2...
 
The Leaf is quick off the line but the 8:1 fixed reduction gear results in lack of performance and efficiency after about 40 MPH. Still more than adequate for just about anything other than the track. For better performance the Leaf will need an actual transmission or maybe the high torque motors we see in the Spark EV.
 
SanDust said:
or maybe the high torque motors we see in the Spark EV.
High torque isn't going to help unless you also increase the amount of power significantly. If the LEAF had 120-140 kW of power instead of just 80 kW it's really accelerate quite nicely, but that's not going to happen with the battery pack the LEAF has now... The battery pack could push 120-140 kW for short periods of time, but it would take even more of a beating than it does now. The pack would need to be either more tolerant of heat (or be actively cooled), have lower internal resistance or just be bigger to support those kinds of power levels.
 
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