Leaf Vampire Drain?

[DaveinOlyWA]

I think the key point here is " once every 3 months". That would be a hell of a vacation. I went away for two weeks and left it at the airport and had no problem when I returned. 2015 Leaf S. If you have carwings i would hope/assume you can disable it if you suspect an issue, but it sounds like it would shut down after 2 weeks anyway, so those crafty engineers have planned for it.

I know people who do EXACTLY that. Store their LEAF for... oh wait!!... Its actually 4 months. They do it a bit differently though. They disconnect the 12 volt battery and put it on a tender. The car is left at 50% and is usually just under that when they return. They leave TG weekend and return in Early March. I asked them how much they lose on the traction battery and their highly technical response tends to be "hardly nothing if any I think"

Not really all that uncommon for retired people living in the North. My parents did it for years, living in Olympia but spending Winters in Mission, TX. They generally left first week of Jan, returning late March.

 

[jjeff]

My '12 is sitting outside(uninsured for the winter) where it's in the single digits today and will be sub-zero tonight
I don't plan on using it until spring(April/May around hear ) and I parked it after the first snow/ice storm in November.
November to May could be up to 5 months, yes I'm a bit worried about the battery and will check it after a couple weeks. So far when I've checked it hasn't even dropped a % but then again it hasn't been sub-zero for any given length of time.
Lots of retired people around here leave after Christmas and don't come back until April/May, again 3-4 months, probably not many have an EV though

 

[arnis]

My '12 is sitting outside(uninsured for the winter) where it's in the single digits today and will be sub-zero tonight
I don't plan on using it until spring(April/May around hear ) and I parked it after the first snow/ice storm in November.
November to May could be up to 5 months, yes I'm a bit worried about the battery and will check it after a couple weeks. So far when I've checked it hasn't even dropped a % but then again it hasn't been sub-zero for any given length of time.
Lots of retired people around here leave after Christmas and don't come back until April/May, again 3-4 months, probably not many have an EV though

I just wrote procedure for EV conservation due to your concern and finding no clear instructions online.

Here it is:
Long term EV storage procedure

Leaf will use internal battery heater for vehicle to be "well drivable" (no turtle) in any moment.
You don't need this anyway and it will be definitely warm when you return to vehicle.
Battery will be totally OK with 24h average down to -20*C (-4*F). It will not freeze (no damage will happen).

If it's too late for you to do the whole procedure just start the car with no HVAC for few hours.
If you don't return to vehicle for 3-4 months you should disconnect the terminal.
If you are not up for that task then the last resort you could do is charge it to 60-70% wish some luck and leave

 

[pipestem]

My '12 is sitting outside(uninsured for the winter) where it's in the single digits today and will be sub-zero tonight
I don't plan on using it until spring(April/May around here ) and I parked it after the first snow/ice storm in November.
November to May could be up to 5 months, yes I'm a bit worried about the battery and will check it after a couple weeks. So far when I've checked it hasn't even dropped a % but then again it hasn't been sub-zero for any given length of time.
Lots of retired people around here leave after Christmas and don't come back until April/May, again 3-4 months, probably not many have an EV though

It's pretty funny that you cannot just go outside every few days and 'start' the car the way you would an ICE. I guess that equates to plugging it in. Are you doing that ?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Plugging it in would not charge the 12 volt battery as much as starting it with climate control on.

 

[jjeff]

My '12 is sitting outside(uninsured for the winter) where it's in the single digits today and will be sub-zero tonight
I don't plan on using it until spring(April/May around here ) and I parked it after the first snow/ice storm in November.
November to May could be up to 5 months, yes I'm a bit worried about the battery and will check it after a couple weeks. So far when I've checked it hasn't even dropped a % but then again it hasn't been sub-zero for any given length of time.
Lots of retired people around here leave after Christmas and don't come back until April/May, again 3-4 months, probably not many have an EV though

It's pretty funny that you cannot just go outside every few days and 'start' the car the way you would an ICE. I guess that equates to plugging it in. Are you doing that ?

Apparently you don't live in a climate with lots of snow
It's not that easy to get in the car when every time you turnaround it snows unless I wanted to brush off the car every time I wanted to get into it(opening the door without shoveling a path to the car and then brushing off the roof around the car door would cause snow to fall in the passenger compartment :x ). What I did do and for the most part it works is to leave my charge lid partially open, then all I have to do is sweep/remove the snow around the lid and then open the orange j1772 cover and plug in my EVSE. In fact I just did it today and I was happy to report it had only lost a percent or two, and this was during a time when we had sub-zero temps for several days. Now 20 below for several days would probably be a different story but currently no predictions of that, in fact today we topped 40F! in January in MN......what weird weather :?

 

[pipestem]

Apparently you don't live in a climate with lots of snow

heh heh, you're right. I'm more familiar with the old truck at the barn that we have to start every now and then. Today was beautiful, 55F, sunny, breezy.. perfect.

 

[arnis]

Plugging it in would not charge the 12 volt battery as much as starting it with climate control on.

12V battery is charged when vehicle is charging, vehicle is on, climate control is activated.
12V battery is not charged when vehicle is plugged in but not charging.

Therefore "as much" is inappropriate.
When 12V onboard converter is active, it charges the battery the same way.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Plugging it in would not charge the 12 volt battery as much as starting it with climate control on.

12V battery is charged when vehicle is charging, vehicle is on, climate control is activated.
12V battery is not charged when vehicle is plugged in but not charging.

Therefore "as much" is inappropriate.
When 12V onboard converter is active, it charges the battery the same way.

The 12 volt battery isn't charged with as high a voltage (after a brief initial charge) when plugged in and charging as it is when the wipers or climate control are run.

 

[GerryAZ]

Plugging it in would not charge the 12 volt battery as much as starting it with climate control on.

12V battery is charged when vehicle is charging, vehicle is on, climate control is activated.
12V battery is not charged when vehicle is plugged in but not charging.

Therefore "as much" is inappropriate.
When 12V onboard converter is active, it charges the battery the same way.

The 12 volt battery isn't charged with as high a voltage (after a brief initial charge) when plugged in and charging as it is when the wipers or climate control are run.

Climate control makes little difference to float charging voltage on my 2015 and I don't think it made a difference on my 2011. Windshield wipers on (intermittent, low speed, or high speed) will increase the float charging voltage on my 2015, but there is not much additional current absorbed by my AGM deep cycle battery so there is no real impact to the 12V battery state of charge. The higher voltage makes incandescent lights brighter and reduces current draw of the wiper motor.

 

[LeftieBiker]

There is some anecdotal evidence that the climate control - run on Low to avoid a high blower drain - charges the 12 volt battery a bit more. As for the lights getting brighter with the wipers on, I tried to test that specifically, and found no brightening of the headlights at all. Which is puzzling...

 

[arnis]

Plugging it in would not charge the 12 volt battery as much as starting it with climate control on.

12V battery is charged when vehicle is charging, vehicle is on, climate control is activated.
12V battery is not charged when vehicle is plugged in but not charging.

Therefore "as much" is inappropriate.
When 12V onboard converter is active, it charges the battery the same way.

The 12 volt battery isn't charged with as high a voltage (after a brief initial charge) when plugged in and charging as it is when the wipers or climate control are run.

Why. Why are you so often that wrong with things you say, I don't get it.
Make a video demonstrating what you just said with LeafSpy or multimeter.

 

[LeftieBiker]

People have already checked this with a multi-meter. When the car is plugged in to charge, you get just a few minutes of 14+ volts to the accessory battery, before it drops to a float voltage of about 13.1 volts, IIRC. Turning on the wipers produces something like 14.4 volts continuous. I don't recall the details of the voltage increase with the climate control on, but you can check that easily enough - I no longer have a Gen I Leaf.

Now, Arnis, why are you so arrogant and so certain that you are always correct? Why? I have an Estonian friend who lives in Canada. He also believes that he is superior to just about everyone else, but he has learned to be more subtle, and less obnoxious, about it.

 

[arnis]

Because I do own a Leaf and I've observed voltage for 3 years on daily basis with app that
shows no error compared to voltmeter reading at the terminals if OBD adapter is live with app.

There is a current based threshold between 13 & 14.4 volt modes. CC settings have no effect on that. The end.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Perhaps someone here will be kind enough to take voltmeter readings, at the battery + and chassis ground, of the accessory system voltage with CC on and off...? LeafSpy doesn't seem to provide changing, live readings of accessory voltage, AFAIK. Just for giggles I'll try it with my '18 after the plague releases its grip on me. I do remember a thread in which several of us were comparing accessory rest voltages after various short trips, but not the exact details.

 

[specialgreen]

There is a current based threshold between 13 & 14.4 volt modes. CC settings have no effect on that. The end.

Can you elaborate on this? For example, if the DC-DC is charging at 14.4 volts and current drops below X mA, then DC-DC output voltage switches to 13? If that is what is going on, then that would explain why some people might have observed that turning on climate control or wipers could keep the voltage at 14.4 (because the draw is then large enough to exceed the current threshold).

 

[GerryAZ]

Perhaps someone here will be kind enough to take voltmeter readings, at the battery + and chassis ground, of the accessory system voltage with CC on and off...? LeafSpy doesn't seem to provide changing, live readings of accessory voltage, AFAIK. Just for giggles I'll try it with my '18 after the plague releases its grip on me. I do remember a thread in which several of us were comparing accessory rest voltages after various short trips, but not the exact details.

Climate control use does not change DC-DC converter output with my 2015 SL (remains about 13 volts). Windshield wipers being on (intermittent, low speed, or high speed) causes output to be about 14 to 14.5 volts (depending upon temperature). Halogen high beam headlights get slightly brighter when wipers are switched on and voltage rises (low beam LEDs remain on with high beam halogens).

DC-DC converter output voltage drops from about 14 volts to about 13 volts when the current absorbed by the battery drops below a threshold value which is difficult to accurately measure, but is between 3 and 5 amperes on my 2015 and was between 6 and 10 amperes on my 2011.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Thanks. Maybe a false correlation snuck in because some people use CC mainly to defog windows, in which case the wipers may often be on as well. There was also a thread about the possibility of using remote CC activation to force the car to charge the accessory battery.

 

[arnis]

There is no need to force anything. Leaf vampire drain should be 10-50mA by my measurements and that is totally fine for battery that is in good health for weeks. Automatic trickle charging activates on its own.

GerryAZ's explanation is totally correct.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The automatic trickle charging on older Leafs, at least USA Leafs, is not "totally fine" as many have discovered. It is often inadequate.