LEAF to get 6.6kW charger in 2013

[TRONZ]

The 6KWH charger is ALREADY here. 2011 "Limited" additions have this plus the cold weather package (heated seats/steering wheel/battery warmer). All 2012 Leafs will have the 6 KWH charger standard.

Huh? Where did you here this? Cold weather package yes, but Nissan just said there would be no 6.6 kW charger until MY 2013.

Gas2.0 has a write up on the 2012 LEAF and states the 2013 will have the 6Kwh charger!

http://gas2.org/2011/07/14/2012-nissan-leaf-doubles-charging-capacity-adds-cold-weather-package/

 

[IBELEAF]

Just dropped my Leaf for service and repair and briefly talked to Leaf mechanic about 6.6kW charger, he said it should be easy upgrade, obviously the cost of it is unknown at this point.

 

[TomT]

I would not place too much stock in what he says... It's more complicated than it might look on the surface...

Just dropped my Leaf for service and repair and briefly talked to Leaf mechanic about 6.6kW charger, he said it should be easy upgrade, obviously the cost of it is unknown at this point.

 

[mwalsh]

I would not place too much stock in what he says... It's more complicated than it might look on the surface...

Just dropped my Leaf for service and repair and briefly talked to Leaf mechanic about 6.6kW charger, he said it should be easy upgrade, obviously the cost of it is unknown at this point.

But we can dream!

 

[EVDRIVER]

Just dropped my Leaf for service and repair and briefly talked to Leaf mechanic about 6.6kW charger, he said it should be easy upgrade, obviously the cost of it is unknown at this point.

Ask him what the wire gauge is on both ends of the charger and it's max amp rating and then look for a blank stare like a deer in the headlights

 

[tps]

Ask him what the wire gauge is on both ends of the charger and it's max amp rating and then look for a blank stare like a deer in the headlights

Or like the blank stare I got from a Radio Shack sale associate once when I asked for a VOM.

 

[surfingslovak]

For what it's worth, Mark Perry, Nissan America’s director of product planning said in early March:

Owners of the 2011 LEAF models, that want a Level II charge, will not be left out. Perry also said that any new charger offer would be designed so it could be retrofitted into existing vehicles: “We don’t want to orphan our first-year buyers.”

http://nissan-leaf.net/2011/03/09/nissan-to-equip-leaf-with-upgraded-onboard-charger-in-2012/

 

[davewill]

For what it's worth, Mark Perry, Nissan America’s director of product planning said in early March:

Owners of the 2011 LEAF models, that want a Level II charge, will not be left out. Perry also said that any new charger offer would be designed so it could be retrofitted into existing vehicles: “We don’t want to orphan our first-year buyers.”

http://nissan-leaf.net/2011/03/09/nissan-to-equip-leaf-with-upgraded-onboard-charger-in-2012/

Yes, I've been taking the naysayers with a grain of salt. No sense arguing about it because for all I know, the pessimists may be right. But I'm waiting to see what comes down. I feel confident that if Nissan doesn't do it, a third-party will.

 

[Herm]

Yes, I've been taking the naysayers with a grain of salt. No sense arguing about it because for all I know, the pessimists may be right. But I'm waiting to see what comes down. I feel confident that if Nissan doesn't do it, a third-party will.

Hopefully Nissan will at least sell all the parts needed, including the wire harness.. and perhaps even be willing to reflash the computers if needed.

How much is the upgrade worth to you?

 

[TomT]

Since it is a lease, virtually nothing to me...

How much is the upgrade worth to you?

 

[davewill]

Yes, I've been taking the naysayers with a grain of salt. No sense arguing about it because for all I know, the pessimists may be right. But I'm waiting to see what comes down. I feel confident that if Nissan doesn't do it, a third-party will.

Hopefully Nissan will at least sell all the parts needed, including the wire harness.. and perhaps even be willing to reflash the computers if needed.

How much is the upgrade worth to you?

Kinda hard to say at this juncture. Maybe $1000 with my current very short commute and $2000 if I started driving more, and needed opportunity charging several times a week. I don't think that 6.6kw charging buys me that much at home...just the occasional midday top up on the weekend. If QC becomes common or public L2 doesn't, then I wouldn't do it at all.

 

[rnkepler]

For what it's worth, Mark Perry, Nissan America’s director of product planning said in early March:

Owners of the 2011 LEAF models, that want a Level II charge, will not be left out. Perry also said that any new charger offer would be designed so it could be retrofitted into existing vehicles: “We don’t want to orphan our first-year buyers.”

http://nissan-leaf.net/2011/03/09/nissan-to-equip-leaf-with-upgraded-onboard-charger-in-2012/

Unfortunately that blog wasn't entirely correct.

Nissan Clarifies: 10,000 LEAFs Built by End of March, Faster Charging Upgrade Being "Studied"

But apparently—as is often the case—things are not exactly as they seem. In an email to PluginCars.com, Perry said that Green Car Reports was "speculating" and that he said Nissan was "studying" the possibility of offering an upgrade in a year or so.

 

[Stroked02F350]

Just dropped my Leaf for service and repair and briefly talked to Leaf mechanic about 6.6kW charger, he said it should be easy upgrade, obviously the cost of it is unknown at this point.

Ask him what the wire gauge is on both ends of the charger and it's max amp rating and then look for a blank stare like a deer in the headlights

So is there a reason you hate dealer techs? Sorry we are not all internet/ev gods like your self. You have been busting my back since the day I joined this forum. Arent you a mod? Shouldn't you be welcoming to everyone that joins and share the same interest?

As far as installing a 6.6 charger in the 1st gen leafs. It should be possible. The cost might be high. The wiring from charger
to battery and charge to port will need to be upgraded. In tearing these cars apart the harness are a easy change and the charger is a easy change. My only question would be will the VCM and the battery control unit need replacement or a reflash to deal with the extra power. Only time will tell if Nissan will come out with a upgrade or the A/M.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Just dropped my Leaf for service and repair and briefly talked to Leaf mechanic about 6.6kW charger, he said it should be easy upgrade, obviously the cost of it is unknown at this point.

Ask him what the wire gauge is on both ends of the charger and it's max amp rating and then look for a blank stare like a deer in the headlights

So is there a reason you hate dealer techs? Sorry we are not all internet/ev gods like your self. You have been busting my back since the day I joined this forum. Arent you a mod? Shouldn't you be welcoming to everyone that joins and share the same interest?

As far as installing a 6.6 charger in the 1st gen leafs. It should be possible. The cost might be high. The wiring from charger
to battery and charge to port will need to be upgraded. In tearing these cars apart the harness are a easy change and the charger is a easy change. My only question would be will the VCM and the battery control unit need replacement or a reflash to deal with the extra power. Only time will tell if Nissan will come out with a upgrade or the A/M.

When did I say I hate dealer techs I missed that? Please do not change my words because you are sensitive about a comment that was not made about you directly. You seem like a very competent tech, and there is no reason you should not feel welcome. In my comment I don't mention your name or any individual, it is a general fact that most techs have limited skills on the LEAF now and if you read some of my other posts you can see I also mentioned that in time they will learn more and get up to speed. Truly many are very misinformed but all this is the nature of a new technology but they still give out inaccurate info at times. All people are welcome on this forum and in no way is making a factual statement about my many experiences with dealer techs and those experiences of other's change that nor does it make me hate them even if some do the "deer" stare on basic questions

On the topic of your charger point if Nissan uses the existing charger location to do an upgrade, based what I have inspected the harness from the front of the car charge port and the one to the charger will need to be replaced. I can't imaging those parts to be cheap with the cost of copper and the required wire size not to mention the usual cost of dealer parts. That said those parts are not exactly easy to replace and may even require a pack drop. Then there is the cost of the new charger that will likely be $2k itself and the labor to swap it by removing seats and the before mentioned parts and cooling lines. For some reason I see this as easily a $4K job in total, min $3k. The price of the harness will certainly be more than the existing ones (easy to check) not to mention all the mechanical labor plus Consult time to do the firmware changes and checks.

It makes more sense to have a charger attached to the L3 port to do charging to the 80% mark at 6-12kw and let the factory charger finish. Better for the aftermarket. Even if the wire were larger, two of the factory units could work in parallel to 80%, etc, etc. Had Nissan just used a slightly higher gauge wire all this would be far easier and lower cost, but even though they made a choice to lower the charger output spec they also made a choice not to prep for an upgrade because that is how auto makers work. Mark Perry can say anything he likes with the best intention but he is speaking with his marketing hat on and not an engineering hat and pleasing folks until this is all forgotten. At best the new gen 2 harnesses and charger could work in both cars if they keep the design the same which is easy to do for that power output but it is unlikely anyone would take advantage of that at the cost. If Nissan offers a larger capacity pack for all LEAF cars this is even another example of poor planning as that additional output is needed, it falls into "sure you can get it but a new car makes more sense for the total cost"


As a moderator I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else and I'm not going to twist facts by saying things like "EV charge America is a good company and deserves a chance" to make someone feel more welcome. From day one I warned people about this company and I got a bunch of flack for that. The owner of that company is welcome to post here and if I were the CEO I would defend my company if it had so much bad PR. I suppose he can blame me for all his poor customer service.

Keep up the good work!

 

[Luft]

On the topic of your charger point if Nissan uses the existing charger location to do an upgrade, based what I have inspected the harness from the front of the car charge port and the one to the charger will need to be replaced. I can't imaging those parts to be cheap with the cost of copper and the required wire size not to mention the usual cost of dealer parts. That said those parts are not exactly easy to replace and may even require a pack drop. Then there is the cost of the new charger that will likely be $2k itself and the labor to swap it by removing seats and the before mentioned parts and cooling lines. For some reason I see this as easily a $4K job in total, min $3k. The price of the harness will certainly be more than the existing ones (easy to check) not to mention all the mechanical labor plus Consult time to do the firmware changes and checks.

I'm no EV expert but wouldn't the parts that they remove in order to do the upgrade still have some value? Copper is expensive like you said and the 3.3kw charger would still be usable (kind of).

I'm wondering if the early adopters might get a discount of some kind.

As far as connecting the QC port to a DC charger would the charger be practical for an individual? Isn't there a need for some kind of large expensive isolation transformer?

 

[LEAFer]

As far as an upgrade to the charger: also keep in mind labor cost. And those will be more than you might think, because the charger is liquid cooled and the system has to be drained before charger removal ... then reverse the procedure after install.

 

[TEG]

Anyone know the real reason why Leaf has only a 3.3kW charger now?

Some said it was just cost savings.
Others said they had a 6.6kW but it was too power line noisy, so they had to go to a 2nd source that only had a 3.3kW.
Others said it is because 3.3kW is commonly available in Europe even though once you get 240V in USA it is typically more.
But I am finding other mentions that maybe some regulations in the USA were dictating it?

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/hevtest/071608evchargingreq.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Modification of ARB definitions for Level I charging to make them consistent with
SAE and/or to modify the regulation to avoid unintended consequences. If
modifications are not made, one could interpret the existing regulation language as
requiring all 220 VAC charge capable PHEVs to install 3.3 kW onboard chargers,
even though this was not the intent of ARB...

In the above, it was like they were trying to suggest a MINIMUM power to meet some charge time objectives for PHEVs.
Someone could have mistaken the minimum power suggestion as the recommended...

...Requirements. Beginning with the 2010 model year, all vehicles identified in
subsection (a) must be equipped with a conductive charger inlet port which meets all
the specifications contained in Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Surface Vehicle
Recommended Practice SAE J1772 REV 2009, SAE Electric Vehicle
Conductive Charger Coupler, which is incorporated herein by reference. All such
vehicles must be equipped with an on-board charger with a minimum output of 3.3
kilovolt amps...

http://www.tva.gov/environment/technology/car_infrastructure.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...Level 2 has a range of power demand from 2.5 kilowatts to 19 kilowatts. Initial vehicles produced for mass market will likely have only a 3.3 kilowatt onboard charger, eliminating the immediate need for high-power home charger supply upgrades...

Back in 2000, the EVs of that era (e.g.: RAV4EV, RangerEV) tended to have chargers closer to 6kW.
Why all of a sudden did we take this step backwards to slower charging?

 

[surfingslovak]

Back in 2000, the EVs of that era (e.g.: RAV4EV, RangerEV) tended to have chargers closer to 6kW.
Why all of a sudden did we take this step backwards to slower charging?

Perhaps they wanted nudge everyone towards L3, not realizing that their largest market will be stuck on L2 for the foreseeable future?

 

[KeiJidosha]

Anyone know the real reason why Leaf has only a 3.3kW charger now?

Some said it was just cost savings.
Others said they had a 6.6kW but it was too power line noisy, so they had to go to a 2nd source that only had a 3.3kW.
Others said it is because 3.3kW is commonly available in Europe even though once you get 240V in USA it is typically more.

Add to your list that the utilities, anticipating thousands of cars, were resistive to higher power chargers until they confirm EV charging behavior. And commercial public charger site owners who incur increased demand charges for higher peak currents. To get public site and utility stake-holder buy-in, Nissan went L2 lite, to avoid mythical Prius-ville brown outs and power bill sticker shock during the launch. This also leashes early adopters to home turf where they are less likely to push range limits. A win win win in early stakeholder meetings.

 

[evmike]

My understanding is 3.3 kW is the typical power found in a Japanese garage.

Also they have a country wide network of Chademo chargers so you would use them when away from home.