Leaf is Totally Dead - No warning. Resolved see page 3

[MikeD]

RegGuheert: I'm glad you commented on the "On Mode low-battery charging" issue for 2011, 2012! I would like to know the truth, whatever it is. I will do further voltage tests (via 12v power outlet) while listening to the radio in "On Mode" in my 2011, until the battery drops to 11.5v (anyone think that's not low enough?). It would be nice to have results for 2013 (and 2012, as it might be different)...

Edit Update: Without giving timing details, I listened to the radio while in "On Mode" (2 button pushes w/o brake). After about 1:10, 12v battery voltage had dropped to 11.50v from an initial 12.22v w/o any hint of charging (no "relay sound" either). I then went to "Ready Mode" (1 additional button push w/ brake), and battery started charging at 14.57v, which continued with little change for 0:13 when the charging voltage dropped to 13.20v. A minute later I checked the voltage in "Acc Mode": 12.92v.

Again, does anyone with a 2011 or 2012 have a different experience? Does a 2013 Leaf seem to start charging at a certain minimum voltage level?

 

[gbarry42]

Yeah, lets get to the bottom of this. This is how my 2011 works...if there's more, I haven't been playing with it enough!

• -There's a "button sound" coincident with a button press, that comes before any other.
  -There's the "startup sound" that you can select from Setup. Some people set this to "none".
  -There is also the "relay sound" of the contactors inside the battery pack that close when the traction battery is broght on line. This is mechanical, not played through the speaker.
  -When the contactors are dropped, there is no possibility of interacting with the big battery. And there's a sound produced by their dropping, too.

So,

• -Bump the button quickly (foot on brake or not), you get just the button sound. As if to say, "I saw that, but my debounce program thinks that was an accident". Car stays Off.
  -Press button purposefully (20 msec or longer) with foot on brake. Button sound, delay, then the startup sound plays at the same time you hear the relay sound. The displays do their "dance", and the car is Ready.
  -Press button with foot on or off brake, Buttons sound, car turns off, along with the sound of the relays dropping.

Here's what I call the "long cycle":

• 
  -Press button with foot off the brake. Button sound, nothing else.
  -Press button again with foot off brake. Button sound. Displays turn on. No relay sound. Car is in Accessory mode.
  -Press button once more and the car turns Off. We are back where we started.
  press again

The long cycle can be longer. If you are in accessory mode and press the button with the brake on, there will be the buttons sound, the displays will go off, and then things will proceed as described going into Ready mode.

If the car is in Ready mode, pressing the button turns it off, whether the brake is pressed or not.

Now, there are some other ways to get the car powered up without pressing the button.

• 
  -Remotely request climate control
  -EVSE connected, and timers in their charge period (or disabled)
  -12 volt battery maintenance operation (though I have never witnessed this one)

It may be that the above actually describe what is being called "ON" mode. The car is not in READY mode. At the commencement of any of the above, the relay sound will be heard (and if you bumbled the timer settings, you will hear them drop out again!). There are also beeps associated with charging, (but that's not pertinent here).

Associated with the above is the fact that if you get in the car and turn it on (foot on brake), it will start up as described above, but because the relays are closed, it will skip that sound and the time associated with doing so. For those who are in tune with the "rhythms of the LEAF", it's quite noticeable. (Yes, if the EVSE is attached, it powers up but won't let you go READY until you pull the charge plug).

Now, let's see if anything is different on the 2013. (And hope I got it right on the first try!)

 

[planet4ever]

My notes in red.

Here's what I call the "long cycle":

• 
  -Press button with foot off the brake. Button sound, nothing else. This is accessory mode. Center console lights up, radio, etc. can be used.
  -Press button again with foot off brake. Button sound. Displays turn on. No relay sound. Car is in Accessory mode. No, that is ON mode. Dash lights up, everything can be used except for shifting into gear.
  -Press button once more and the car turns Off. We are back where we started.

For anyone curious, three months ago I posted here all of the possible transitions from one state to another using single or double clicks, with or without the brake. It turns out you can go directly from any one state to any other.

Ray

 

[gbarry42]

Heading out to the garage to try all this...

OK, I've been playing with this. First off, the thing everyone has been trying to tell me is correct. The Accessory mode does not light up the dashboard, just the Nav panel, and there's a significant delay before you see it. Which is to say, it fooled me, many times even, even though I had read about it right here. Therefore, the mode I thought was Accessory turns out to be the ON mode. It does answer a question I had, "Do I really have to power up 90% of the car just to use the radio?" The answer is "No, that's not Accessory mode".

As to Ray's state diagram (that he linked to above), it's nice to have something that concise. I am still at odds with the notion of pushing the button twice. In my limited trials, when pushing it twice rapidly, it tended to be counted as one push. When I pushed more slowly, things behaved as if I had simply pushed the button twice. Indeed, for any cycle that has three states, advancing by two is the same as going back one. But this does not agree with the diagram, notably when going from Ready with the brake applied. The first push should go to Off and the subsequent push would bring it right back to Ready. The chart shows it going to On. So, I still haven't quite figured it out.

One consideration is the actual timing of a "double push". When I say fast, I mean the sort of timing that would be recognized as a "double click" if it were a mouse. The slower "successive pushes" would be separated by 1/3 to 1/2 second (though by my theory the delay could be a lot longer). One more possible variant would be if any particular state transition ignored further button pushes until it had finished. The "real" startup (with the music and the relays) could be a candidate for this.

I don't really feel like wearing out the controls, and I'm overthinking this as it is