Leaf as 50 mile daily driver in Maine?

[TimLee]

Early 2011 LEAF not acceptable in Maine. No battery heater.
Both 2011 & 2012 range is just too marginal for the 50 mile round trip commute in Maine in cold weather, especially as battery capacity degrades over time.
It is theoretically possible, but most realistic people do not want to take on that challenge.
Even in Tennessee which is a lot warmer than Maine, a 50 mile round trip commute is pushing it in the winter unless you charge to 100%. And with battery capacity loss over time, it will not be acceptable for most people.
2013 may have slightly better range, and will have better heat pump HVAC, but don't have data yet to know what the power requirement for that will be on a cold -4F day in Maine. Will be better than 2011 / 2012, but at -4F it may still be depending a lot on resistance heat.
Best to wait and see on the details on the 2013. But I'm skeptical that even the 2013 will be an acceptable choice for the conditions you've stated for most people.

 

[LEAFer]

Several good points made ... keep in mind though, you won't be driving 65mph on snow ( I hope ! ).

Yes, one drives slowly in a snowstorm. No, it doesn't lead to better mileage than higher speeds on dry roads. Driving in snow and slush is really hard on mileage. It is also highly variable, depending on the type of snow and temperature and tires.

I think you might have just talked yourself into a new project :lol: I think others too would be very curious as to what the relative loss in efficiency would be to drive on snow. ( I know ... there are too many types of snow to produce a scientific answer ... ) For that matter, how bad does rain affect range ... would be useful to know as well. Again, in a practical real-world scenario there are too many variables. Nevertheless, inquiring minds want to know .... for example, if I drop my speed to 40 on snow from 65 on dry roads .... what happens to my range ? Can I recover my original miles/kWh ?

 

[DrC]

First of all -- wow! Thank-you, everyone, for the great comments. What a passionate community!

So my tally of responses:

Not likely under reasonable conditions: 15.5
Possible, try it, but bundle up and be prepared to push to regenerate power: 3
Definitely doable – signed (someone who may have never seen snow): 1.5

Marginal, without charging at work. I think that even if a 110V outlet was available, it would probably work -- but not under the circumstances.

Thanks!

Dr.C.

 

[downeykp]

Dr. C. It was very smart of you to get the information you got from us at MNL. This way your decision at least had some real world opinions. My worry is that there are way too many people who just believe what a salesman via Nissan would tell them about the capabilities of the Leaf.
Nissan needs to be more up front about what it's car will do.

 

[Caracalover]

Several good points made ... keep in mind though, you won't be driving 65mph on snow ( I hope ! ).

Yes, one drives slowly in a snowstorm. No, it doesn't lead to better mileage than higher speeds on dry roads. Driving in snow and slush is really hard on mileage. It is also highly variable, depending on the type of snow and temperature and tires.

I think you might have just talked yourself into a new project :lol: I think others too would be very curious as to what the relative loss in efficiency would be to drive on snow. ( I know ... there are too many types of snow to produce a scientific answer ... ) For that matter, how bad does rain affect range ... would be useful to know as well. Again, in a practical real-world scenario there are too many variables. Nevertheless, inquiring minds want to know .... for example, if I drop my speed to 40 on snow from 65 on dry roads .... what happens to my range ? Can I recover my original miles/kWh ?

Again, how you drive is the answer to your questions.

Watch the power meter in the car, and adjust your power use to the distance you need to go.

It is really not that hard. If you have half a battery, you can use a power draw of 10kw for an hour. Steep up hills at 35MPH draws close to 20kw, so your drive time is reduced to 1/2 hour. Nice part about the Leaf in snow is the regen helps you maintain control, since it reacts faster than a brake pedal ever could, and doesn't lock up.

How you drive is the factor that makes this car better than any ICE.

Someone mentioned a blizzard, and freezing. Fact: People die from running the heater in an ICE when the car is buried in snow. Carbon Monoxide poisoning sucks.

Check me on this: 400W draw for the car on and the heated seats. 17% of battery = 3.4kwh. (LBW) Low Battery Warning

So with a blanket you could likely use heated seats sporadically and survive an overnight (12 hours) situation and still follow the snow plow off the highway, although in a blizzard situation I would pull over long before the LBW.

Without the heated seats at Low Battery Warning you have about an hour of heater use at 3.4 KW draw. That hour could of course be managed to give you 10, 5 minute bursts of heat, or 5, 10 minute bursts. That would likley give you enough heat to survive for 5 hours or more.

 

[garsh]

We have been doing a 60 mile RT like the one you describe in our LEAF for almost 2 years now with no issues.

I also have a 60 mile round trip commute. I haven't had a problem yet. If you use the heated seats & stearing wheel a lot, and dress warmly, and you don't need to use the energy-sucking heater too much.

 

[ksnogas2112]

Personal experience from yesterday:

Garaged and preheat charge to nearly 100%, it was still charging but there were no regen bubbles when I pulled up to stop sign at the end of the street.

Air temp: 15* F
Garage temp: 50*
Battery temp: 5 bars
Full capacity battery (aka 12 battery bars)

1. Drive to son's high school, 10 mile drive@ 35mph and burst defrost @60* F to clear windows
2. From high school drive other son to junior high and sit in parking lot for 30 minutes with defrost running on low for 20 minutes
3. The drive to office with climate control off since one person doesn't seem to fog windows around here. Final mileage 26 miles. Used 5 fuel bars of 12.
4. Car sits in sun all day, air temp rises to 34* F.
5. 3pm leave office to get son from high school, now have 4 battery temp bars. 20 mile from office to school to home and back to office. Avg speed 45 mph (1/3 55 mph, 1/3 35 mph, 1/3 45 mph), no climate control.
6. 6pm leave office for home back below freezing 8 miles, 45mph, no climate control.
7. 630pm run down to Grandma's with new hearing aid batteries. No climate control.
8. 7pm return home after stopping for BBQ for dinner, 35 mph, 20 miles

Arrive 1 fuel bar left on the GOM, no low battery warning but i could smell it, or was that the bbq?

Total miles: 64
Average speed: probably 35, carwings dropped from 4.8 monthly average m/kWh to 4.7 when temp bottomed out on Sunday. Yes, I know that sitting with the defrost running at low temp at low speed, 1.5 on the car wings energy screen, is not great but I wanted to test it.

It's a little warmer this morning only 27* and I didn't use CC except to burst clean windows and arrived with 2 bars used and deep into the 3rd. Says 40 minutes to charge to 80%. That extra trip to pick up the kid is killing my normal commute.

So, yes on a brand new battery (6 months, but baked at high 6 and low 7 temp bars all summer) with climate control used at non highway speeds, 60 miles is doable. I don't think 55-65mph runs with CC is reasonable for more than the first winter without recharging capability. BTW, this is rolling hills, lots of up and downs but not more than a couple hundred feet in elevation change but constantly doing that 50-100 feet.

Just my 2 cents. Here's your complimentary pick axe to poke holes.

 

[evnow]

It boils down to commitment. If someone is committed, 50 miles is doable. But one would have top drive differently than how an ICE is driven.

Funny thing is, just last year most here would have said go for it. But since battery troubles in Arizona (!), people have become pessimistic about the battery everywhere.

 

[dgpcolorado]

It boils down to commitment. If someone is committed, 50 miles is doable. But one would have top drive differently than how an ICE is driven.

Funny thing is, just last year most here would have said go for it. But since battery troubles in Arizona (!), people have become pessimistic about the battery everywhere.

Last year there were very few people with real winter and snow driving experience who drove the LEAF in winter conditions because the car launched mostly in mild weather states...

The LEAF is a fine winter car as 2 wheel drive cars go. But one has to be realistic about what cold and snow do to range. If the OP's wife had a 35 mile commute or workplace charging I'd have said "go for it!"

 

[evnow]

Last year there were very few people with real winter and snow driving experience who drove the LEAF in winter conditions because the car launched mostly in mild weather states...

But most of the skeptics are from deserts of SW US.